House of Israel House of Judah

[Qnts2]

8 minutes ago, Joline said:

Well we can see that Levie was separated out. And as I said, it depends on HOW IT IS RECKONED. The inheritance was the LAND. That is continuous reality that they were to inherit the land promised. So no the context of which I said, it depends on how Israel is reckoned, I am speaking of the covenant to inherit the land.....

Vs

the inheritance of the priesthood, and the covenant of the priesthood

Jos 18:7  But the Levites have no part among you; for the priesthood of the LORD is their inheritance:

Ne 13:29  Remember them, O my God, because they have defiled the priesthood, and the covenant of the priesthood, and of the Levites.

In this Israelites are said to be the strangers..................

But, you are ignoring that the Levites are counted as a tribe of Israel and among the children of Israel in all other ways. They lived in the land of Israel as native born, with the blessings and curses. You are making more of the land inheritance then is written. 

Israelites are not counted as strangers to the Priesthood since the Levites are Israelites. Tribes other then Levites are strangers to the inheritance of the Priesthood.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Qnts2 said:

But, you are ignoring that the Levites are counted as a tribe of Israel and among the children of Israel in all other ways. They lived in the land of Israel as native born, with the blessings and curses. You are making more of the land inheritance then is written. 

Israelites are not counted as strangers to the Priesthood since the Levites are Israelites. Tribes other then Levites are strangers to the inheritance of the Priesthood.

Qnts I said it depends on how they are reckoned.........

As for the children of Israel being strangers to the priesthood...It is more the idea I believe of being ESTRANGED.... They were not heirs of it...........

Nu 3:38  But those that encamp before the tabernacle toward the east, even before the tabernacle of the congregation eastward, shall be Moses, and Aaron and his sons, keeping the charge of the sanctuary for the charge of the children of Israel; and the stranger <02114> that cometh nigh shall be put to death.
Nu 16:40  To be a memorial unto the children of Israel, that no stranger <02114>, which is not of the seed of Aaron, come near to offer incense before the LORD; that he be not as Korah, and as his company: as the LORD said to him by the hand of Moses.

the tribe of Levi joined to the priesthood 
Nu 18:4  And they shall be joined unto thee, and keep the charge of the tabernacle of the congregation, for all the service of the tabernacle: and a stranger <02114> shall not come nigh unto you.
The isrealites were 02114 strangers.

02114 זור zuwr zoor

 

a primitive root; v; {See TWOT on 541 }

 

AV-stranger 45, strange 18, estranged 4, stranger + 0376 3, another 2, strange woman 2, gone away 1, fanners 1, another place 1; 77

 

1) to be strange, be a stranger
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to become estranged
1a2) strange, another, stranger, foreigner, an enemy (participle)
1a3) loathsome (of breath) (participle)
1a4) strange woman, prostitute, harlot (meton)
1b) (Niphal) to be estranged
1c) (Hophal) to be a stranger, be one alienated

They had a separate inheritance from Isreal.

This is what Ephesians speaks of here

Eph 2:18  For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

The both here is Jew and Gentile.

The Israelites in times past were strangers from the very house of God. Only Levites could enter the very house of God itself.

[Qnts2]

6 hours ago, Joline said:

Qnts I said it depends on how they are reckoned.........

As for the children of Israel being strangers to the priesthood...It is more the idea I believe of being ESTRANGED.... They were not heirs of it...........

Nu 3:38  But those that encamp before the tabernacle toward the east, even before the tabernacle of the congregation eastward, shall be Moses, and Aaron and his sons, keeping the charge of the sanctuary for the charge of the children of Israel; and the stranger <02114> that cometh nigh shall be put to death.
Nu 16:40  To be a memorial unto the children of Israel, that no stranger <02114>, which is not of the seed of Aaron, come near to offer incense before the LORD; that he be not as Korah, and as his company: as the LORD said to him by the hand of Moses.

the tribe of Levi joined to the priesthood 
Nu 18:4  And they shall be joined unto thee, and keep the charge of the tabernacle of the congregation, for all the service of the tabernacle: and a stranger <02114> shall not come nigh unto you.
The isrealites were 02114 strangers.

02114 זור zuwr zoor

 

a primitive root; v; {See TWOT on 541 }

 

AV-stranger 45, strange 18, estranged 4, stranger + 0376 3, another 2, strange woman 2, gone away 1, fanners 1, another place 1; 77

 

1) to be strange, be a stranger
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to become estranged
1a2) strange, another, stranger, foreigner, an enemy (participle)
1a3) loathsome (of breath) (participle)
1a4) strange woman, prostitute, harlot (meton)
1b) (Niphal) to be estranged
1c) (Hophal) to be a stranger, be one alienated

They had a separate inheritance from Isreal.

This is what Ephesians speaks of here

Eph 2:18  For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

The both here is Jew and Gentile.

The Israelites in times past were strangers from the very house of God. Only Levites could enter the very house of God itself.

Levi is one of the tribes of Israel. The other tribes are also tribes of Israel. Levi was not estranged from the other tribes and the other tribes were not estanged from Levi. The terms strangers in this case refers to inheritance or rights particularly related to the Temple. Levi lived off of the sacrifices and tithes. The other tribes brought sacrifices which became food for Levi, and the other tribes brought various required tithes and payments, such as the Pidyon HaBen which was a redemption price for the first born male child, which the Priests received. 

Each tribe of Israel had an inheritance.  Each tribes inheritance was different with differing laws governing it. All of the inheritance laws are part of the same covenant given to all of the children of Israel. It is biblically incorrect to say the Levites had a separate inheritance from Israel, because the Levites were a part of the children of Israel. You seem to view the Levites as not part of the children of Israel.     

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, Qnts2 said:

Levi is one of the tribes of Israel. The other tribes are also tribes of Israel. Levi was not estranged from the other tribes and the other tribes were not estanged from Levi. The terms strangers in this case refers to inheritance or rights particularly related to the Temple. Levi lived off of the sacrifices and tithes. The other tribes brought sacrifices which became food for Levi, and the other tribes brought various required tithes and payments, such as the Pidyon HaBen which was a redemption price for the first born male child, which the Priests received. 

Each tribe of Israel had an inheritance.  Each tribes inheritance was different with differing laws governing it. All of the inheritance laws are part of the same covenant given to all of the children of Israel. It is biblically incorrect to say the Levites had a separate inheritance from Israel, because the Levites were a part of the children of Israel. You seem to view the Levites as not part of the children of Israel.     

I have already posted the scripture on this. All you did was repeat it here

Quote

"The terms strangers in this case refers to inheritance or rights particularly related to the Temple. Levi lived off of the sacrifices and tithes."

Yeah, that is what I said. They were separated from the twelve tribes as the scriptures show. They had a distinct inheritance from Israel.

[Esther4:14]

On 3/1/2016 at 8:19 AM, Joline said:

Another way of putting it, is a refusal to distinguish between the seed of the first covenant, from the seed of the second covenant.

The kingdom of this world and this life

Ge 15:18  In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
 

The kingdom of the next world and the next life

Ge 17:4  As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations. {many…: Heb. multitude of nations }
Ge 17:5  Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

29  And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
 

I really think Martin Luther describes it best in his book The Jews and Their Lies. 

"God truly honored them highly by circumcision, speaking to them above all other nations on earth and entrusting his word to them.  And in order to preserve this word among them, he gave them a special country; he performed great wonders through them, ordained kings and government, and lavished prophets upon them who not only apprised them of the best things pertaining to the present but also promised them the future Messiah, the Savior of the world.  It was for his sake that God accorded them all of this, bidding them look for his coming, to expect him confidently and without delay.  For God did all of this solely for His sake:  for His sake Abraham was called, circumcision was initiated, and the people were thus exalted so that all the world might know from which people, from which country, at which time, yes, from which tribe, family, city, and person, he would come, lest he be reproached by devils and by men for coming from dark corner or from unknown ancestors" (loc 437). 

Israel prepared the way for Christ.  This is why they were chosen.  All this coming from someone deemed an antisemite for this writing because he refuses to say what Zionists want him to say, which is that they are a chosen nation without Christ.  This is what building Israel is supposed to prove, that Israel can be restored without having to accept Christ and less than they deserve according to the words of the Old Testament that tells us that Israel was blessed with perfect peace and prosperity.  They were, but the Old Covenant is no longer. 

To say that someone is anti-semitic for saying something like this is to assume that this is something that they want.  That someone like Martin Luther wants a Jew to not accept Christ.  That they want to take a blessing from them.  This would be the definition of anti-semitism.  But, the truth is being anti-semitic is really only an accusation that has been made against people who are not interested in whether the Old Covenant is restored or not.  I have read many old books.  I like reading old books.  Anti-semitism throughout history can be described as people ignoring how "special" the Jews are and not giving them enough attention for their "specialness," because they are never mentioned.  No one cared what the Jews were doing, I'm sorry, but it is true.  The only time they noticed the Jews was when they had to, because there was is has been a serial killer in history books that was killing children around the time of Passover and leaving their bodies to look like they had been hung on a cross.  Then, people noticed the Jews.  Otherwise, they were like whatever; they were the people you could get loans from because the Catholic church didn't allow money lending.  Whatever.  Maybe, not so fair for the farmer because the Jew would charge them interest.  "You may charge a foreigner interest, but not a fellow Israelite, so that the LORD your God may bless you in everything you put your hand to in the land you are entering to possess." (Deuteronomy 23:20). 

Finally, there is a verse from Revelation 16:5-6 that pretty clearly indicates that all of Israel will not be saved like we are being told they will.  "And I heard the cherub of the waters saying, You are righteous, O holy one who is, and who was, and who will be, because You judged these things, since they poured out the blood of the saints and of the prophets, and You gave blood to them to drink, for they were deserving."  I wonder who He is talking about (Luke 13:34). 

This is not my judgement.  But, I am not going to pretend that I read something different to fit in with Zionists.  I didn't become a Christian to fit in.  I became a Christian to be healed. 

It is also interesting to note that the church has now been present for over 2000 years.  You would think that after 2000 years of Gentiles accepting Christ, a Jew today might even be grateful that they are able accept their Messiah because of the many, from many nations who have been carrying this message for them to receive 2000 years after the resurrection.  But, no.  Not one thank you or sign of appreciation.  Just a continual stick trying to remember everyone in the church who does not know whether they descend from endless genealogies that they are back and to take a seat in the back of the bus.  No matter what a Gentile does for Christ, even giving up his own life, it will never compare to being born as a Jew who has done nothing other than learn that they descend from Abraham.  Doesn't really seem fair does it.  Maybe that is why Revelation doesn't detail a welcome home party for this sort of vanity. 

Bless you in your pursuit of truth. 
 

[JohnD]

The Jewish people are chosen / elect without Christ due to the unconditional covenants with Abraham Genesis 12-17. 

This however has no bearing on their eternal salvation but is only for THIS life on earth.

I never said otherwise.

The Spirit Jew is chosen / elect with Christ due to the covenant made with Abraham for his faith in Genesis 17:4-5 and 22:17-18.

Romans 4:12–16 (AV)

12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

This IS about eternal life and our citizenship in heaven.

 

[Qnts2]

On 3/5/2016 at 11:46 PM, Joline said:

I have already posted the scripture on this. All you did was repeat it here

Yeah, that is what I said. They were separated from the twelve tribes as the scriptures show. They had a distinct inheritance from Israel.

I have already pointed out that Levi is a tribe of Israel, so is not separate from Israel. So, it is incorrect to say that they had a distinct inheritance from Israel, as if they are not part of Israel. 

Also, I have also said that the Levites did not inherit land, but the other inheritances given to Israel include the Levites. And although they did not inherit land, they lived in the land as native born (children of Israel) and were not strangers (foreigners) living in the land of Israel. 

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Qnts2 said:

I have already pointed out that Levi is a tribe of Israel, so is not separate from Israel. So, it is incorrect to say that they had a distinct inheritance from Israel, as if they are not part of Israel. 

Also, I have also said that the Levites did not inherit land, but the other inheritances given to Israel include the Levites. And although they did not inherit land, they lived in the land as native born (children of Israel) and were not strangers (foreigners) living in the land of Israel. 

No, Qnts it is not incorrect to say they had a distinct inheritance from Israel. they were separated.

Nu 8:14  Thus shalt thou separate the Levites from among the children of Israel: and the Levites shall be mine

And I already gave you the many scriptures which spoke of them having a distinct inheritance, which was the priesthood and all that goes along with it.

As well I already gave you the scripture which speaks of them as not counted among them either.

Of which the Israelites were strangers unto, and would die attempting to enter into Gods house.

Ex 29:33  And they shall eat those things wherewith the atonement was made, to consecrate and to sanctify them: but a stranger <02114> shall not eat thereof, because they are holy.
Ex 30:33  Whosoever compoundeth any like it, or whosoever putteth any of it upon a stranger <02114>, shall even be cut off from his people.
Le 22:10  There shall no stranger <02114> eat of the holy thing: a sojourner of the priest, or an hired servant, shall not eat of the holy thing.
Le 22:13  But if the priest’s daughter be a widow, or divorced, and have no child, and is returned unto her father’s house, as in her youth, she shall eat of her father’s meat: but there shall no stranger <02114> eat thereof.
Nu 1:51  And when the tabernacle setteth forward, the Levites shall take it down: and when the tabernacle is to be pitched, the Levites shall set it up: and the stranger <02114> that cometh nigh shall be put to death.
Nu 3:10  And thou shalt appoint Aaron and his sons, and they shall wait on their priest’s office: and the stranger <02114> that cometh nigh shall be put to death.
Nu 3:38  But those that encamp before the tabernacle toward the east, even before the tabernacle of the congregation eastward, shall be Moses, and Aaron and his sons, keeping the charge of the sanctuary for the charge of the children of Israel; and the stranger <02114> that cometh nigh shall be put to death.
Nu 18:7 Therefore thou and thy sons with thee shall keep your priest’s office for every thing of the altar, and within the vail; and ye shall serve: I have given your priest’s office [unto you] as a service of gift: and the stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death.