abstenance from marraige should be revoked

[The_Patriot21]

so, you say there is 4%. out of how many priests? and somehow manage to link that to the problem. I think, and I think you know, your stretching it there. Did you know, that there are many studys, that suggests, that roughly 4% of the population is pedophiles. So, 4 out of every 100 people, are pedophiles. All you have shown, is the catholic priesthood, is no different, then the entire rest of the world. Your "connection" is a non connection, completly, and stop bringing it up, all your doing is falsely smearing the catholic church, your argument that abstinance causes pedophilia is completly false, and there is zero evidence to support that.

 

In fact, lets look at what the Bible has to say about it, lets go tothe bible, 1 corinthians 7, speaks to this,

 

1 corinthians 7:1 in fact states:  Now concerning the matters about which you wrote: t“It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman,  2 But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband.

 

it goes on, saying husband and wife should not deprive each other of sex, etc etc but the interesting part, gets down to verses 6-8

 

6 Now as a concession, xnot a command, I say this.1 7 yI wish that all were zas I myself am. But aeach has his own gift from God, bone of one kind and one of another.

8 To the unmarried and the widows I say that cit is good for them to remain single das I am.

 

The reason Paul is speaking to being single, is he thinks marriage can detract from ones relationship with Christ, that they should be fully focused on him. Now, not once did Paul say getting married and having relations with ones spouse is a sin-he did not say that, he said in fact it was better to burn with passion for their spouse then to remain unmarried and be tempted. It was this ideal, the Catholic church instuted the no marriage for priests in the first place, and its an ideal that the vast majority of priests, follow to the letter. Right, wrong, otherwise, it does NOT lead to pedophilia. That is a sin, that affects the priests, and virtually everyone else in this wrold, equally. It is a sin, that affects the supposedly "abstinent" and those who do not claim it equally. Now, not having relations-can, and does in many, lead to temptation-but child molestation, is completly different, then sleeping with a woman who is not your wife. Its not normal, to lust after a child-it really isnt. Some say its a mental disorder, I don't know about that-but it is sick, and it is twisted, and virtually every study out there, suggests that those who are inclined to this, arent limited to one walk of life, they can be priests, they can be your next door neighbor, many of them have kids with a wife-many abuse their OWN kids. Pedofilia is a completly different sin, one that is not limited, the catholicism, nor directly or indirectly, connected to abstinance from marriage.

 

[Zemke]

You wanted proof thousands of children have been abused. You said that it's vey few and far between and it couldn't be thousands and that I made up that number. So I gave you proof. It's thousands. So proving the priesthood statistics are just like the worlds statistics proves what? That Catholicism is no better than being in the world? What?

 

 

[Reinitin]

All sin and fall short of the glory of God but not all receive justice and compensation in this life. Especially the children and the poor that are abuse victims of a wealthy powerful organization claiming to be Gods authority on this earth. The abstinence is like their ritual of perserved carcuses of men they have on display to claim they had no sin so they aren't decaying. It's all deception, slide of hand, cloaking the truth what ever you want to call it. they try to appear as if they are not of this world but are of God but the truth is they are of this world.

[The_Patriot21]

8 hours ago, Zemke said:

You wanted proof thousands of children have been abused. You said that it's vey few and far between and it couldn't be thousands and that I made up that number. So I gave you proof. It's thousands. So proving the priesthood statistics are just like the worlds statistics proves what? That Catholicism is no better than being in the world? What?

 

 

Ok, well I suppose "technically" its "thousands" by being more then a thousand, then your right its "thousands" but it's nowhere near high enough to prove a connection between it and abstinence. It does show, like you said they are no different then the rest of world, but that is an entirely different topic, unless of course your goal is to attack the Catholic Church. But while we're at it lets look at Protestant churches, do you realize that the divorce rate is the same if not higher in the church, then the rest of the world?

 

There is no connection between abstinence from marriage and child abuse. None, whatsoever. Even though there is more then "1000" the number is an insignificant number in the grand scheme of things. Sure it's sad that it Happenned-but it also has no bearing on the topic at hand.

[tigger398]

Not all priest are bad. I have one that comes into the store and is quite a joy and blessing to talk to.

[Willa]

There are many godly priests just as there are many godly pastors.  There are also priests who become priests because they are searching for God, and the same is true of pastors.  All pastors and priests should be called by God into His service after they have found a relationship with Him.  

Marrying will not prevent pedophiles or rapes.  Unfortunately, many are already married.  For them it is more about power and abuse as much as self gratification, I am told.  It may be born of hate. Where in Christian marriage sex is an expression of love and being one with our spouse.  It is about giving pleasure as much as about getting pleasure.  So the person who is abusive, who wants the power of manipulation and conquering another person, may be married.  It is very sad sickening and twisted.  That is why it is called perversion.

[Ezra]

6 hours ago, The_Patriot2016 said:

Ok, well I suppose "technically" its "thousands" by being more then a thousand, then your right its "thousands" but it's nowhere near high enough to prove a connection between it and abstinence.

Do we even know if the thousands reported are only the tip of the iceberg? How many unreported cases do you think there are?  And what is the real total?  Let's stop minimizing this evil and making excuses for it.  And there is definitely a connection between celibacy and sexual abuse.  Figure it out for yourself.

[The_Patriot21]

12 minutes ago, Ezra said:

Do we even know if the thousands reported are only the tip of the iceberg? How many unreported cases do you think there are?  And what is the real total?  Let's stop minimizing this evil and making excuses for it.  And there is definitely a connection between celibacy and sexual abuse.  Figure it out for yourself.

I'm sure there are unreported cases, but there are thousands of unreported cases of child molestation by non Catholics and married men as well. You can't use unreported cases as evidence because not you, not me, no one has an actual number if them. We have to go with what's verified, and what's verified is that the Catholic numbers are the same as the rest of the world.

 

If what you say is true, we should see a drastically higher number of cases among Catholics-and other religious groups that practice celibacy-then those who don't. We don't see that. It's not observed. In fact the number is drastically lower for other religious groups that practice celebicy then Catholics and other people groups. Linking the two together is a false argument.

[Guest Teditis]

I'd imagine that the ratios are about the same between Catholic priest pedophiles and secular pedophiles...

Probably less.. but that's just a guess.

[Ezra]

2 hours ago, The_Patriot2016 said:

In fact the number is drastically lower for other religious groups that practice celebicy then Catholics and other people groups. 

The RCC is the only church that actually forbids marriage to its clergy. The Orthodox allow it and so do all the other denominations. So there is no point in bringing "other religious groups" into the picture.  And where there is "self-serving secrecy" you will never get the true state of affairs.

In Ireland (a Catholic country) an extensive study was done on sexual abuse by priests (which is more than just pedophilia).  Here is a summary (and endemic means built into the fabric) from Wikipedia:

The [Ryan] Commission's report said testimony had demonstrated beyond a doubt that the entire system treated children more like prison inmates and slaves than people with legal rights and human potential, that some religious officials encouraged ritual beatings and consistently shielded their orders amid a "culture of self-serving secrecy", and that government inspectors failed to stop the abuses.

Among the more extreme allegations of abuse were beatings and rapes, subjection to naked beatings in public, being forced into oral sex, and subjection to beatings after failed rape attempts by brothers. The abuse has been described by some as Ireland'sHolocaust. The abuse was said to be "endemic" in the institutions that dealt with boys. The UK based Guardian newspaper, described the abuse as "the stuff of nightmares", citing the adjectives used in the report as being particularly chilling: "systemic, pervasive, chronic, excessive, arbitrary, endemic".

The Report's conclusions section (Chapter 6) supports the overall tenor of the accusations without exception.