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Who is The 7th Kingdom Beast (and 8th) of Rev?

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REV 17: This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. 10They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. 11The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.

Notice, 7 heads= 7hills= 7 kingdoms

Rev 13:  The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority. 3One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was filled with wonder and followed the beast.

Most prophecy buffs say this:

THE 5 WHO HAVE FALLEN:

1. Egypt

2. Assyria

3. Babylon

4. Media- Persia

5 Greece

THE ONE WHO IS: 

6. Rome

THE ONE WHO HAS YET TO COME:

7.  ?????????   I assume this beast empire already has come, and it appears he will return in some form or fashion.  Did you notice that the beast that "now is not" also will be the 8th!  The fatal head would has been healed!!!! 

So who do you think fits the description?  Who has had their day once (persecuted Israel) and will once again rise up to persecute Israel and be the 8th (fatal head would healed)? 

A.   The Turks or Muslims.  The Ottoman Turks did rule over the Mid East for over 400 years until WWI.  They certainly persecuted Israel, just like everyone else on this list. 

B.  Nazi Germany:  Hitlers Third Reich certainly persecuted the Jews, and isn't there  something in the Bible that says the 7th will rule for a short time?  Is it possible that the demon spirit that ruled over Hitler might be released from the Abyss to rule over the 7th? 

C.  A revived EU?  I'm not sure where 10 kings will come from Europe, but I'm sure some of you have answers. 

D. A revived Roman Empire:  this seems unlikely to me because that means they would be the 6th, 7th, and 8th empire. 

E.   ??????  Fill in the blank.  

Dont forget, the 8th is of the 7th, so how do you see this play out?  

Thanks,

spock

 

 

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Hi Spock,

Good start to the discussion. So here is what I see -

The woman sits on the 7 Heads , hills, kings.

Heads refer to the leader of the kingdom. Thus we are looking at a person.

7 kings/leaders

*5 leaders have `come & gone

*one leader is (just before the 10 kings give authority (v. 12) – first part of tribulation)

* one leader has not yet come – A/C has not yet received the 42 mths of power.

* the eighth leader `was, is not & is himself also the 8th` - Satan. (parody of Christ)

 

So to me this is talking about 7 leaders over the final kingdom not over 7 kingdoms. It is specifically revealing the final leader, the Head of the Global Government, (the beast).

 

Note that is an important detail –

7 Heads/leaders (consecutively) over the final kingdom.

 

Marilyn.

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The seven heads with seven crowns belong to Satan.  Revelation 12:3

The beast with 10 horns from Daniel 7 has no mention of seven heads.  However, he is seen in Revelation with the additional seven heads.  Why?  How did this beast acquire the seven heads which are Satan's?  This is the biggest clue, in my opinion, as to understanding the seven kingdoms / kings.

Another tidbit I find necessary is making the distinction between the fallen angels that spawn these kingdoms and the kingdoms themselves.  The beast is not the worldly kingdom, he is the cause of that kingdom.  The worldly kingdom is the effect.

 

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On 2/3/2016 at 9:49 AM, Last Daze said:

The seven heads with seven crowns belong to Satan.  Revelation 12:3

The beast with 10 horns from Daniel 7 has no mention of seven heads.  However, he is seen in Revelation with the additional seven heads.  Why?  How did this beast acquire the seven heads which are Satan's?  This is the biggest clue, in my opinion, as to understanding the seven kingdoms / kings.

Another tidbit I find necessary is making the distinction between the fallen angels that spawn these kingdoms and the kingdoms themselves.  The beast is not the worldly kingdom, he is the cause of that kingdom.  The worldly kingdom is the effect.

 

The seven headed dragon of Revelation 12 and the seven headed beast of Revelation 13 are separate entities; one spiritual and one natural. Admittedly, the natural is under the control and influence of the spiritual; but both ultimately remain subjected to the authority and sovereignty of God.

The "seventh" is England and the eighth "is of the seven" meaning originates from England, but is separate. The eighth I believe is the same as the little horn of Daniel 7. For It is also interesting to note that distinct notation mentioned in Revelation from the ten horns where the angel recognizes them as “kings,” yet the leader of the eighth empire is not so identified. That provides grounds to the probability that the governing system of the eighth, or foundation of authority, as Daniel might say, is “diverse from all before it.” Meaning, according to scripture there are sound reasons to believe the eighth empire will not be a monarchical kingdom with a “king.” For nowhere has there been a direct reference to a ruling “king” in the eighth empire mentioned making it actually very similar to the “little horn” mentioned by Daniel.

Daniel 7:7 - After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns. 8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

Daniel 7:24 - And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another [little horn] shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

This little horn seems to be almost too quietly mentioned being contrasted against the weight of “the four winds of the heaven [which] strove upon the great sea” with those “four great beasts [that] came up from the sea.” However, there are a few points worthy of prayerful consideration worth sharing IMHO. First, this little horn’s origin comes from “among them,” this to me speaks of a nation or empire that will rise up, not only out of the “ten horns,” but in all probability predominantly from one in particular. Therefore, I believe it is prudent to stay note the distinct attributes taken from each of those “four great beasts [that] came up from the sea” have also been assigned to the beast that rises up out of the sea in Chapter 13.

Revelation 13:1 -  And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. 2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

Second observation, notice the “little horn” has “eyes like the eyes of man.” These “eyes of a man” speaks primarily to me of the sin nature of man, i.e., the pride of life, lust of the flesh and lust of the eyes. This signifying how the little horn is never going to be satisfied till all it sees comes under its control and influence. Therefore, he (or the leader of the eighth empire) will be cunning, flattering, and given to endless lies, in a vain endeavor to achieve its ambitions. Thus this “little horn” has “a mouth speaking great things,” which also is seen to be associated with the Eighth Beast.

Revelation 13:5 - And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, and His tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

Daniel 7:8 - I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

Since the ten horns in Daniel were upon the beast that represented Rome, if we assume them to be representative of the revised Roman Empire, or the EU, then it would be logical to assume this eighth will or has “plucked up by the roots” three of them at some point and time. That said, it is simple history that the colonization of America was originally attempted (as it were) by three horns; England, Spain and France. However, all three of these were “plucked up by the roots” so to say and lost any and all sovereign claim to American soil.

Also, these “horns” were identified as beasts themselves later on.

Daniel 7:8 - I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things. 9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. 10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened. 11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame. 12 As concerning the rest of the beasts [ten horns], they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

Furthermore, it is evident that because of its “great words which the horn spoke” that “the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.” Again, this too can be seen attributed to the eighth empire in Revelation which is destined to be destroyed with fire by those ten horns, which obviously will have “their lives were prolonged for a season and time.”

Revelation 17:16 - And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

Revelation 18:8 - Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

Daniel saw both the rise and fall of this “little horn” which was confirmed to be under the sovereign watch of the “Ancient of days.” This shows what I said in my opening paragraph, that no kingdom, even though they may appear to be running rampant in defiance to His great authority, can ever succeed beyond the tolerance of the Lord’s great power and restraint.

 

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On 3/1/2016 at 0:13 AM, Spock said:

 

REV 17: This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. 10They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. 11The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.

Notice, 7 heads= 7hills= 7 kingdoms

Rev 13:  The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority. 3One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was filled with wonder and followed the beast.

Most prophecy buffs say this:

THE 5 WHO HAVE FALLEN:

1. Egypt

2. Assyria

3. Babylon

4. Media- Persia

5 Greece

THE ONE WHO IS: 

6. Rome

THE ONE WHO HAS YET TO COME:

7.  ?????????   I assume this beast empire already has come, and it appears he will return in some form or fashion.  Did you notice that the beast that "now is not" also will be the 8th!  The fatal head would has been healed!!!! 

So who do you think fits the description?  Who has had their day once (persecuted Israel) and will once again rise up to persecute Israel and be the 8th (fatal head would healed)? 

A.   The Turks or Muslims.  The Ottoman Turks did rule over the Mid East for over 400 years until WWI.  They certainly persecuted Israel, just like everyone else on this list. 

B.  Nazi Germany:  Hitlers Third Reich certainly persecuted the Jews, and isn't there  something in the Bible that says the 7th will rule for a short time?  Is it possible that the demon spirit that ruled over Hitler might be released from the Abyss to rule over the 7th? 

C.  A revived EU?  I'm not sure where 10 kings will come from Europe, but I'm sure some of you have answers. 

D. A revived Roman Empire:  this seems unlikely to me because that means they would be the 6th, 7th, and 8th empire. 

E.   ??????  Fill in the blank.  

Dont forget, the 8th is of the 7th, so how do you see this play out?  

Thanks,

spock

 

 

 

THE 5 WHO HAVE FALLEN:

1. Egypt

2. Assyria

3. Babylon

4. Media- Persia

5 Greece

THE ONE WHO IS: 

6. Rome

THE ONE WHO HAS YET TO COME

7.  SPLIT ROME when Rome split into  Papal Europe (now EU)  and   Byzantium Empire (now Turkey).  (two feet- divided kingdom of Daniel 2)

8.  New location Rome:   Turkey rapidly expands over ten countries. The two Roman capitals  (Istanbul/Rome) agree to relocate their capital to Israel/Jerusalem.

 

For prophecy to remain accurate, 6,7,8 all have to be Rome, in order to remain faithful to Dan 2 and Dan 7 which indicates Rome is the fourth empire, after Greece.  The 3 stages of Rome are symbolically represented in Daniel 2 by :

Iron legs  (Roman Empire)

Two feet of iron and clay (Split Empire with bad clay/bad religion inside it)

Ten toes  (ten horns/ten divisions of the final empire.

 

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17 hours ago, BlindSeeker said:

This little horn seems to be almost too quietly mentioned being contrasted against the weight of “the four winds of the heaven [which] strove upon the great sea” with those “four great beasts [that] came up from the sea.” However, there are a few points worthy of prayerful consideration worth sharing IMHO. First, this little horn’s origin comes from “among them,” this to me speaks of a nation or empire that will rise up, not only out of the “ten horns,” but in all probability predominantly from one in particular. Therefore, I believe it is prudent to stay note the distinct attributes taken from each of those “four great beasts [that] came up from the sea” have also been assigned to the beast that rises up out of the sea in Chapter 13.

Revelation 13:1 -  And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. 2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

 

Yes, the beast that comes out of the sea in Rev 13 looks quite different from when he came up out of the sea in Daniel 7.  The 10 horns are common between the two appearances but there is the addition of Satan's seven heads and attributes from the other beasts of Daniel 7 as you mention.   I think the answer lies in this verse you quoted:

  • And the dragon gave him [the beast] his power and his throne and great authority.  Revelation 13:2b

The seven heads of the dragon have crowns and represent Satan's throne and authority.  This is how the beast from the sea acquired the seven heads that weren't present in Daniel 7.  Satan essentially gives this evil angel beast temporary charge while he enters the false prophet to deceive the world and wage war against the saints.  I think this notion is reinforced by the beast from the sea having the attributes of the other three beasts of Daniel 7.  They've given their power to him as well, doing his bidding.

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According to the descriptions given in Daniel and Revelation, there are 10 beasts all together.

Daniel has the following; the lion, bear, leopard, diverse beast, ram, and goat = 6

Revelation - the ten horned conglomerate beast, the two horned beast, the beast out of the bottomless pit, and the scarlet beast also out of the bottomless pit = 4

The ram and the goat are a double up of the bear and the leopard. Which makes the total kingdoms 8.

The conglomerate beast of Revelation 13, is a combination of the four in Daniel, indicating that it has the same agenda and power as all of the previous empires.

If the fourth beast of Daniel 7 is the same as the conglomerate beast then we have a total of 7.

The dragon which is Satan, is behind all of these kingdoms, and is pictured in Rev 12 as having 7 heads. Seven attempts at ruining and controlling the world.

 

But Rome and the Church of Rome were two different empires, because the first had to give way to the second, and the first came to an end before the second arose. What is more, the Church of Rome borrowed its political power off the ten horns, three of whom were destroyed by it. So it is different than Rome.

These two empires are the fourth beast of Daniel 7, and the first beast of Rev 13 respectively. The Church of Rome is represented in Daniel as the nasty little horn.

That brings the total number back to 8 beasts.

 

The scarlet beast, the 8th, according to John is "of the 7" this brings the number back down to 7.

 

Now to identify each beast, we simply look at all the major world powers in succession. No mystery here.

Babylon

Persia

Greece -

Rome

Papal Rome - the great tribulation of 1260 years, the Antichrist, blasphemous, persecuting, earthly priesthood replaces Christ, the abomination. "Out of the sea"

America - lamb like horns, land of the free. "Out of the earth"

France - "Out of the bottomless pit," revolutionary, makes war on the Bible and Christianity. This is where communism began. France only lives a short time and is gone as far as a world power is concerned. So we are back down to 7 beasts.

Communism - "scarlet" it is red (it disappears and makes way for the next, it changes - "was, and is not and yet is"). "out of the bottomless pit" The last beast - is all the people of the world united, they all have the mark of the beast and worship the dragon. (Socialist and revolutionary in style and power, religious [blasphemy all over it]). "Out of the bottomless pit" see below.

Note; There is one other major player which the Bible accounts for in these prophecies - the Mohammedans, or the Ottoman empire and political Islam. Their times of reign are given in Revelation 9, and are also described in the last part of Daniel 11. Careful investigation proves that Islam is a stem of the Papacy, and therefor a part of the conglomerate beast. Note that these are pictured as locusts coming "out of the bottomless pit" or abyss. According to Proverbs locusts have no king, and yet these have crowns - every man to his own claimed territory. Revolutionary movements do not have a king, everybody is acting out of impulse or religious conviction (Islam). Note there are no crowns on the last (red) beast, monarchs have gone and been replaced by a republic. In this case world wide socialism or communism in another form to its predecessor. 

Note that the beasts come "out of the sea" - centralized populations - the nations, and "out of the bottomless pit" - out of darkness or ignorance, and "out of the earth" - underpopulated areas.

Again in Daniel, if we are counting heads, we have 7 heads in Daniel. The lion 1, the bear 1, the leopard 4, the beast 1. So the beast in Revelation 13, is a reflection and combination of these, showing us that the agenda of persecution is behind all these Satanically driven empires. You want to know how the world is oppressed? look at the ruling forces and how they have offered millions of lives to the god of war. Look at the taxes, the injustice and corruption, the cruelty and oppression, the deception and lies, all by the kingdoms of this world.

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They are both the Antichrist.

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John writes in view of the last beast -

"Five are fallen" - Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome, Papal Rome, (French revolution - not a world power, but the beginnings of the last beast).

"One is" - America (is the number one world power).

"And the other is not yet come" World wide revolutionary 'Christianity' backed by communist style civil laws - which are in place today - "guilty - regardless of anything." 

"He is the eighth and is of the seven" It started in revolutionary France, grew into world wide communism, and then changes into a world wide religion called Christianity. 

How? by the miracles performed by America in favor of the Papacy. See Rev 13.

Jesus said that the time will come, when they think they are doing God a favor by killing the saints. It is a religious revolution and revival.

This last movement, is designed to deceive the very elect. It poses as a peace maker, one world under God. It has great miracles and wonders - even bringing fire down from the sky in full view. The 'spirits of the dead' appear and talk to relatives.

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Wow, some pretty divergent opinions on this thread. SMH

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