Who is The 7th Kingdom Beast (and 8th) of Rev?

[Revelation Man]

1 hour ago, douggg said:

The place of seven mountains - Rome the city of the seven hills.    The woman to be destroyed in the end times, burnt to the ground, the Vatican, headquarters of the RCC.

 

Coming out of the sea, is coming out of the gentiles nations.   The person is still a Jew.     Coming out of the earth, the second person is also a Jew, but is from Israel.      The first person will be from the EU.    The second person will be from Israel.

 

The Assyrian doesn't come out either the earth or the sea - he ascends out of the bottomless pit.

Rome is not the Harlot, nor is NYC, America, Mecca or the RCC. The Harlot is False Religion. The Assyrian is a Man, men do not arise from the pit. 

[Revelation Man]

1 hour ago, douggg said:

The place of seven mountains - Rome the city of the seven hills.    The woman to be destroyed in the end times, burnt to the ground, the Vatican, headquarters of the RCC.

 

Coming out of the sea, is coming out of the gentiles nations.   The person is still a Jew.     Coming out of the earth, the second person is also a Jew, but is from Israel.      The first person will be from the EU.    The second person will be from Israel.

 

The Assyrian doesn't come out either the earth or the sea - he ascends out of the bottomless pit.

Rome is not the Harlot, nor is NYC, America, Mecca or the RCC. The Harlot is False Religion. The Assyrian is a Man, men do not arise from the pit. 

[douggg]

16 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Rome is not the Harlot, nor is NYC, America, Mecca or the RCC. The Harlot is False Religion. The Assyrian is a Man, men do not arise from the pit. 

Nimrod as he matured appears to have had nephilim in his genes.    So he was not purely human.    Perhaps that is why he is called the beast.

The harlot is imo Semiramis, which some of the RCC's teachings seemed to have been adapted from the Semiramis/Nimrod religion.    In practical terms, the RCC, the Vatican is the whore.

[ARGOSY]

On 9/29/2016 at 2:17 AM, Revelation Man said:

 

16 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

The ole RCC 10 Tribes etc. etc. is just way off. When Israel was dispersed all over the world after AD 70 and a little past that, you know Ezekiel's prophecy that said Israel was Dead men's bones, then those Bones COME ALIVE AGAIN !! There could be NO BEAST without an Israel. Rev. 17 says there was 7 Kings, 5 have fallen, (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia and Greece) ONE IS (Rome) and one is YET TO COME (Revived Rome/EU/Anti-Christ and 10 Kings) Everyone of these Countries/Kings/BEASTS Conquered, enslaved or Ruled Israel. That is why they are BEASTS !! Once Israel was no more, there could be no Beast until Israel was a nation again. Hence the Ottoman Empire WAS NOT a Beast nor could it be. 

 

Islam will be destroyed by the Anti-Christ. Islam and All False Religion is the Harlot that gets destroyed in Rev. 17:16. Babylon is the Last Beast System that gets destroyed in Rev. 18.

 

I think the best way to deal with my points is to deal with the scriptures I quote. Daniel 2 refers to the fourth empire being split into two feet.  It becomes a divided kingdom. I see that fourth empire as Rome, because the first is described as Babylon and history confirms the other 3. Rome literally did split into two, being ROME and ISTANBUL.   The "statue timeline" ends with the second coming. In this way I believe Daniel 2 describes the dominance of ROME AND ISTANBUL until the second coming.   If you have a better interpretation you are welcome to share it.

Regarding the 8 kingdoms, you are reasonably accurate but history shows it is like this:

1)Egypt .... 2)Assyria... 3)Babylon... 4)Persia .... 5)Greece ... 6)ONE IS: ROME ...  7) SPLIT ROME:   ROME/ISTANBUL      then the ten horned beast of Rev 13/17

This fits in with the 3 stages of Rome as described by Daniel 2:

ROME..... SPLIT ROME ...... TEN TOES ROME

[Diaste]

Rome cannot be considered as the 'beast kingdom". In fact, from scripture, the beast rises and creates the kingdom, the kingdom does not produce the beast. Rev 17 is quite clear on this: 12 "And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast." It's pretty obvious the beast is empowering the 10 kings and the the other way around.  

In truth the beast is an individual per Rev 17:10. All pretrib, RRE, adherents are quite familiar with this verse. This verse speaks of Kings, individuals, not entire realms. Equating the described individual in Rev 17:10 with a country, countries, kingdoms, etc is a great error and misinterprets the verse. Since the conclusion that Rome must be the iron kingdom is woven from the fabric of Rev 17:10 lets rip that fabric apart with a little critical thinking and common sense.

First we have little idea about the true identity of the 'one is'. We can only interpret this 'one is' as an individual, to wit:

Rev 17:10, basileus: a king

Original Word: βασιλεύς, έως, ὁ
Short Definition: a king, ruler, emperor
Definition: a king, ruler, but in some passages clearly to be translated: emperor.

In contrast, Rev 17:12

basileia: kingdom, sovereignty, royal power

Original Word: βασιλεία, ας, ἡ
Short Definition: kingship, sovereignty, authority, rule, kingdom
Definition: kingship, sovereignty, authority, rule, especially of God, both in the world, and in the hearts of men; hence: kingdom, in the concrete sense.

932 basileía (from 935 /basileús, "king") – properly, kingdom; the realm in which a king sovereignly rules.

So it's impossible to equate the king of Rev 17:10 with a kingdom therefore Rome cannot be the answer to 'one is'.

Lets say that we agree that the king of Rev 17:10 is a Roman emperor. I don't but but I'm going to pretend for  a moment. There are a couple of problems here and both are dating issues. Was the Rev given to John in 70 AD? Or 90 AD? If 70 AD then Nero is out as the 'one is' as he committed suicide in 68 CE. But lets back it up to 68 CE so the pretrib math works and Nero it is(This premise considers Augustus as the second Roman Emperor after Julius). The Prophecy says; "And there are 7 kings, five are fallen, one is, and the other when he comes must continue a short space." Now the problem arises when the eighth must be of the 7. If Nero is the sixth then Galba was the 7th, he ruled for 7 months so that's clearly a short space. Now the eighth must be of the 7 so Otho would be the eighth and hence the beast. The problem is Otho only ruled for 3 months, even shorter that Galba and not even close to 42 months as we know the beast must continue at the very least.

What about the Rev penned in 90 AD? Well that's even worse as there were 11 emperors before Domitian, who ruled from 81-96 CE. Nerva succeeded Domitian and ruled for just over a year. Short, but not as short as Galba (7 months), Otho (3 months), or Vitellius (8 months). Even then, Trajan, who succeeded Nerva and who would then be the eighth ruled for almost 20 years and was clearly not the beast, and the age didn't end and Jesus is not ruling on earth. So again Rome is out of consideration as the answer to Rev 17:10

There is another point that is generally ignored by Pretrib adherents and that's Rev 4:1. Here's the verse:" After this I looked, and, behold, a door [was] opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard [was] as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter."

Come up here and I will show you what must be HEREAFTER. So common sense says that what ever Jesus is about to reveal must be HEREAFTER. Unless 'hereafter' means something different today than it did when Jesus said HEREAFTER. Lets check.

meta: with, among, after

Original Word: μετά
Part of Speech: Preposition
Transliteration: meta
Phonetic Spelling: (met-ah')
Short Definition: with, after
Definition: (a) gen: with, in company with, (b) acc: (1) behind, beyond, after, of place, (2) after, of time, with nouns, neut. of adjectives.

HELPS Word-studies

3326 metá (a preposition) – properly, with ("after with"), implying "change afterward" (i.e. what results after the activity). As an active "with," 3326 (metá) looks towards the after-effect (change, result) which is only defined by the context.

Clearly the context is the things that are coming so this preposition is all about the 'change after' and 'after in time'. The following is from dictionary.com

hereafter

adverb

1. after this in time or order; at some future time; farther along.

2. in the time to follow; from now on:

3. in the life or world to come.

So I guess HEREAFTER means the same thing whether in Rev or Webster's. There is no way that Rev 17:10 can be placed in the past. But I see Pretrib do this all the time. It's even worse than that however. Pretrib uses tactical nuclear interpretation to explode Rev 17:10 all over the space time continuum.  "Five are fallen" is hurtled back to the distant past even though Rev 4 says the fallen five are future from the writing of Rev. Then the 'one is'  is placed at ground zero, John's time, even as Rev 4 says the 'one is' must be HEREAFTER.  Of course the one thing Pretrib does get  right is the 7th and 8th king, clearly future. 

In this case looking to the past does not help interpret the future. The Roman angle is all wrong as Rev 17:10 speaks to kings and not kingdoms so it cannot be related to the Daniel 2 dream or interpretation. The Roman emperors from either 70 AD or 90 AD just cloud the issue as there is no clear succession from the 6th to the 8th that is the beast, who rises from the pit and continues 42 months, ushering in the return of Jesus and the end of the age. It's also quite clear that the 7 kings are a group of kings appearing on earth after John's day and cannot be salted throughout 6000 years of history. Below is a very clear, present day answer to Rev 17:10. The following has been researched by Graham Wood and appeared in New Republic here: https://newrepublic.com/article/119259/isis-history-islamic-states-new-caliphate-syria-and-iraq

ISIS almost certainly has a successor in mind. But the supply of caliphs is not infinite, according to some Baghdadi-aligned Islamic scholars studied by Bunzel. One of those scholars, the Bahraini cleric Turki al-Bin’ali, cites a saying attributed to Muhammad that predicts a total of twelve caliphs before the end of the world. Bin’ali considers only seven of the caliphs of history legitimate. That makes Baghdadi the eighth out of twelve—and in some Sunni traditions, the name of the twelfth and final caliph, Muhammad ibn Abdullah, has already been foretold.

Paying close attention to the words in bold we see a distinct parallel to Rev 17:11 " And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven," 

I challenge any of you to find a parallel with Rev 17:11 from this present day that fits as well as the above. Do you get this? Bin'ali is saying that Baghdadi is the eighth and is of the previous 7. When and where has any world leader since Rev was given from the Father to Jesus to John been described as such, and with such a distinct parallel in word and context? Please post the evidence.

The mistake many make is thinking the beast must come to power through an existing organization, political acumen, clever oratory, sartorial splendor, military might, or any combination of the above. The opposite is true. While there is no doubt some of the above may indeed play a part, certainly the beast is warlike and military power will be evident, this is not how the beast rises to world wide power. Rev 13 tells us how.

 3 "And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. 4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who [is] like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?"

Only after the deadly head wound does the beast rise to prominence and garner the awe and fealty of the world. Only after the deadly head wound is healed does the world fear his strength and feel unable to withstand the immortal that walks among us. Only after the deadly head wound is healed does the world realize gods walk among mortals in the form of the dragon and the beast.

In truth there is no hint in the world media of reviving the Roman empire. I do believe Hitler tried that and it failed. How would the Roman empire come back anyway? Is it going to be revived in Rome? Fat chance of that. Istanbul? Do you all realize that's in Turkey? It used to be Constantinople. But then guess what? Muslims took the city and country and renamed it. Istanbul is out. In Belgium maybe? That ain't Roman either. Fact is no Roman empire exists in any form like it did in it's heyday, which is required for the Pretrib scenario. There is a Roman Catholic church but the improbability of this becoming the RRE is staggering. Neither  the UN nor the EU can lay claim to this either. The leaders represented by the 10 horns of Rev 17 have no power as kings before the rise of the beast and only receive authority as kings after the beast attains power. All the leaders of the UN and the EU are already Kings, Emirs, Presidents, Prime Ministers, etc. so both organizations are out of consideration as the answer to the 10 horns/kings of Rev 17.

 

 

 

 

[douggg]

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

If Nero is the sixth then Galba was the 7th,

Nero was the sixth and  last of the Julio-Claudian family of rulers of the 4th kingdom.   

Quote

I challenge any of you to find a parallel with Rev 17:11 from this present day that fits as well as the above. Do you get this? Bin'ali is saying that Baghdadi is the eighth and is of the previous 7. When and where has any world leader since Rev was given from the Father to Jesus to John been described as such, and with such a distinct parallel in word and context? Please post the evidence.

It is not a problem to disprove because the crowns on the heads - in relation to the 7 years, the 70th week in Revelation 17, 12, 13.      (see my thread on the structure of Revelation 6-20)

In Revelation 17, there are no crowns on the 7 heads because the fulfillment of the 7 kings does not happen until the 70th week, way in future to the sixth king ruling at the time of John.  

In Revelation 12, there are crowns on the 7 heads because that chapter is about the 70th week relevant to Israel.    King 7 has come to power, completing the prophecy, when the 70th week begins.    So any reference to a person alleged to historically have  been the 7th king already is false - because the 70th week has not begun.      

Revelation 13, there are no crowns on the 7 heads because king 7 has been killed ending the prophecy of the 7 kings - with 42 months of the second half of the 70th week left.

The crowns on the heads and horns in Revelation 13, 12, 17 - no one pays attention to in building their theories.   The person is not a mahdi figure.

 

Diaste, an excerpt from my thread on the structure of Revelation 6-20.    Please consider that I have studied this material for 45 years.       Paying attention to the crowns in those three chapters is essential, as well as understanding what essentially each chapter is revealing.

Revealing of the seven years relevant to Israel   chapter 12

Revealing of the second half of the seven years after the two witnesses are gone  chapter 13*, chapter 14

Revealing of the woman and the beast, and the mystery of the heads and horns  chapter 17
 

* You quoted Revelation 13 - " saying, Who [is] like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?" .    The reason for them saying that is because the beast who had been making war on the two witnesses has killed them, when no-one else was able to.     When the two witnesses ascend they leave the earth, and the beast rules the world for 42 months without having to deal with them.

 

If we were going to put a heading over each chapter, chapter 12 as example, this is what it would look like, okay?

Revealing of the seven years relevant to Israel

Revelation
Chapter 12

1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

.......................................................

.

Revealing of the woman and the beast, and the mystery of the heads and horns 

Revelation
Chapter 17

1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:

2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

..................................................................

.....................

 

Revealing of the second half of the seven years after the two witnesses are gone 

Revelation
Chapter 13

1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

....................................................

..................................

[Revelation Man]

8 hours ago, ARGOSY said:

 

I think the best way to deal with my points is to deal with the scriptures I quote. Daniel 2 refers to the fourth empire being split into two feet.  It becomes a divided kingdom. I see that fourth empire as Rome, because the first is described as Babylon and history confirms the other 3. Rome literally did split into two, being ROME and ISTANBUL.   The "statue timeline" ends with the second coming. In this way I believe Daniel 2 describes the dominance of ROME AND ISTANBUL until the second coming.   If you have a better interpretation you are welcome to share it.

Regarding the 8 kingdoms, you are reasonably accurate but history shows it is like this:

1)Egypt .... 2)Assyria... 3)Babylon... 4)Persia .... 5)Greece ... 6)ONE IS: ROME ...  7) SPLIT ROME:   ROME/ISTANBUL      then the ten horned beast of Rev 13/17

This fits in with the 3 stages of Rome as described by Daniel 2:

ROME..... SPLIT ROME ...... TEN TOES ROME

This is a commonly held theory, the problem is if you go read Daniel 2:38-43, it never, ever speaks about the "LEGS" as being a divided Kingdom. It just doesn't. It speaks about partly clay and partly iron feet/toes making it divided.

41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay. 

42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.(Fragile)

43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

{ The Thighs according to Daniel 2:32 are Brass, the Legs are Iron, not Iron and Clay. So only the feet are a mix of Iron and Clay. Then we come to Dan. 2:38-43, in verse 41 we see the feet are partly weak and partly strong, unlike the Legs which are all Iron. The Two-legs have nothing to do with two-kingdoms. The third kingdom has two thighs and its not considered two kingdoms. The whole Two Legs is two kingdoms is a misnomer, nowhere in Daniel does it say that. 

The other Kingdom where the Little Horn arises is clear. It is the feet and 10 toes. These give their power to the Beast, thus it is partly strong (the Anti-Christ and 7 of the Kings are going to be ruthless) and partly FRAGILE/BROKEN (There will be three Kings that resist, they are the Fragile or weak part of the Kingdom). Also in verse 43 if you will notice, they shall mingle themselves with the SEED OF MEN, but they shall not cleave !!! Is this referring to men possessed by Demons like the Anti-Christ ? Interesting to say the least. The seed can also mean posterity, maybe it is saying that Devils (8th King) will possess the Anti-Christ, but the Leaders or Kings will not all follow, three of them will not CLEAVE to the plan of the Anti-Christ and thus they have to be subdued. We know in further readings about prophecy three Kings will be subdued. 

You see the only split in Rome is the fact that the original Roman Beast loses Power. Then in the vestiges of the Old Roman Empire arises a different empire, just in the old empires region. It is 10 Kings and the Anti-Christ. There is no Ottoman Empire Beast.  The problem is books come out saying the Legs are TWO-Kingdoms, but Daniel never, ever says that, AT ALL. Thats why we have to follow the bible, and not men who will confuse us. }

 

Edited October 12, 2016 by Revelation Man

[Revelation Man]

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

Rome cannot be considered as the 'beast kingdom". In fact, from scripture, the beast rises and creates the kingdom, the kingdom does not produce the beast. Rev 17 is quite clear on this: 12 "And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast." It's pretty obvious the beast is empowering the 10 kings and the the other way around.  

In truth the beast is an individual per Rev 17:10. All pretrib, RRE, adherents are quite familiar with this verse. This verse speaks of Kings, individuals, not entire realms. Equating the described individual in Rev 17:10 with a country, countries, kingdoms, etc is a great error and misinterprets the verse. Since the conclusion that Rome must be the iron kingdom is woven from the fabric of Rev 17:10 lets rip that fabric apart with a little critical thinking and common sense.

Your fatal flaw here is that you have a misconception about the Kings of Rev. 17:10. 1.) No King can be a King without a Kingdom...... 2.) The Anti-Christ is a man, but he has a Kingdom with 10 other Kings thus this confederation is one of the Seven Heads of the Beast that arises out of the Sea. 

The Seven Kings that fell, were in reference to Seven Kingdoms, as any kingdom falls there has to be ONE KING that is at the helm when the kingdom loses power. The Beast that arises out of the Sea in Rev. 13 is the exact same Beast mentioned in Rev. 17, and it says I will show you the Mystery of the Beast (with 7 Heads). Then the angel describes 7 Mountains, and says they are Seven Rulers, 5 have fallen, one is, and one is not yet come. These are not Kings but Kingdoms. Just like the Beasts in Daniel are Kingdoms. The reason the Kings are spoken if as individuals instead of Kingdoms in Rev. 17:10 is what ? Jesus/John did not want to confuse us whereas would would not be able to see that the 7th King was an EVIL MAN/ASSYRIAN/MAN OF SIN/ANTI-CHRIST, and they wanted us to know the 8th King was Satan himself. So they kept the verbiage as KINGS.....That is the only reason all are called Kings. And 5 Kings had fallen and ONE WAS......Every Kingdom has a King at the helm when they fall from power. So this is true.

 

 

[Diaste]

21 hours ago, douggg said:

Nero was the sixth and  last of the Julio-Claudian family of rulers of the 4th kingdom.   

It is not a problem to disprove because the crowns on the heads - in relation to the 7 years, the 70th week in Revelation 17, 12, 13.      (see my thread on the structure of Revelation 6-20)

In Revelation 17, there are no crowns on the 7 heads because the fulfillment of the 7 kings does not happen until the 70th week, way in future to the sixth king ruling at the time of John.  

In Revelation 12, there are crowns on the 7 heads because that chapter is about the 70th week relevant to Israel.    King 7 has come to power, completing the prophecy, when the 70th week begins.    So any reference to a person alleged to historically have  been the 7th king already is false - because the 70th week has not begun.      

Revelation 13, there are no crowns on the 7 heads because king 7 has been killed ending the prophecy of the 7 kings - with 42 months of the second half of the 70th week left.

The crowns on the heads and horns in Revelation 13, 12, 17 - no one pays attention to in building their theories.   The person is not a mahdi figure.

It's actually all relevant to Israel. The whole bible is Israel-centric. Even believers have no place if not for Israel. Believers have been grafted into the Chosen ones of God. By the 17th Chapter of Revelation the 70th week is well under way. The crowns and when they appear, or do not appear, have nothing to do with the identity of the Iron kingdom. None of the above bears on the identity of the Iron kingdom or the beast. Nor does it address the clear description of Baghdadi by Bin'ali as being the 8th, and of the 7. The beast is not Islamic because...? You say so? You just don't like that? It doesn't fit a preconception? Rome is out as a consideration for the Iron Kingdom as Rome does not, cannot, and never has been a part of the succession from the great horn that is Alexander, to the four notable horns that are Diadochi; from which the little horn arises. The little horn comes from one of four areas: Greece, Egypt, Asia Minor, Middle East. Daniel goes on the place the little horns rise from the Seleucid kingdom as evidenced from the succession of the Seleucid line in Daniel 11. The Iron Kingdom is Islam. In it's day it was a far greater power than Rome and even defeated the Roman legions in many battles.

 

Diaste, an excerpt from my thread on the structure of Revelation 6-20.    Please consider that I have studied this material for 45 years.       Paying attention to the crowns in those three chapters is essential, as well as understanding what essentially each chapter is revealing.

Doesn't matter how long a person has studied. Facts develop theories, theories never dictate facts. What you cling to is the same old misunderstanding that's been around for over a century. Nothing new and it's incorrect. 

Revealing of the seven years relevant to Israel   chapter 12

Revealing of the second half of the seven years after the two witnesses are gone  chapter 13*, chapter 14

Revealing of the woman and the beast, and the mystery of the heads and horns  chapter 17
 

* You quoted Revelation 13 - " saying, Who [is] like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?" .    The reason for them saying that is because the beast who had been making war on the two witnesses has killed them, when no-one else was able to.     When the two witnesses ascend they leave the earth, and the beast rules the world for 42 months without having to deal with them.

Incorrect. You have to accept all the facts.

3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

The acts of the 4th verse flow from the conditions set in the 3rd verse. There is nothing here about the two witnesses, and it's clear the reason for wonder, worship and fear is because the deadly head wound that was healed. And they are not just in awe of the beast here, they worship the dragon also. Why? Because the dragon has empowered the beast while raising him from the dead. This likely happens at the very beginning of the week and the two witnesses appear at the same time for their 3.5 year ministry. The beast then kills them sometime around the midpoint. There is no description of the worship of the beast and the dragon by the people at the time the witnesses are killed, only a great celebration. Why? Because the world has been worshipping the beast for 3.5 years already.

 

 

If we were going to put a heading over each chapter, chapter 12 as example, this is what it would look like, okay?

Revealing of the seven years relevant to Israel

Revelation
Chapter 12

1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

.......................................................

.This is a 2000 year over view from the time Christ was born to the time where Israel flees to the safe place for 3.5 years.

Revealing of the woman and the beast, and the mystery of the heads and horns 

Revelation
Chapter 17

1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:

2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

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Revealing of the second half of the seven years after the two witnesses are gone 

Revelation
Chapter 13

1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

 Again there is nothing here that proves an RRE is the Iron kingdom. There is enough evidence to exclude Rome in Daniel 8 and begin looking elsewhere for the truth of the 4th kingdom and the rule of the beast.  Gabriel tells us exactly where this beast emerges, from the kingdoms of the Diadochi. That is the little horn; 

 a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.  And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people. And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many:

who rises directly from the four notable horns in the distant future, more specifically from the Seleucid realm. Not Rome. Islam.

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[Diaste]

21 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Your fatal flaw here is that you have a misconception about the Kings of Rev. 17:10. 1.) No King can be a King without a Kingdom...... 2.) The Anti-Christ is a man, but he has a Kingdom with 10 other Kings thus this confederation is one of the Seven Heads of the Beast that arises out of the Sea. 

The Seven Kings that fell, were in reference to Seven Kingdoms, as any kingdom falls there has to be ONE KING that is at the helm when the kingdom loses power. The Beast that arises out of the Sea in Rev. 13 is the exact same Beast mentioned in Rev. 17, and it says I will show you the Mystery of the Beast (with 7 Heads). Then the angel describes 7 Mountains, and says they are Seven Rulers, 5 have fallen, one is, and one is not yet come. These are not Kings but Kingdoms. Just like the Beasts in Daniel are Kingdoms. The reason the Kings are spoken if as individuals instead of Kingdoms in Rev. 17:10 is what ? Jesus/John did not want to confuse us whereas would would not be able to see that the 7th King was an EVIL MAN/ASSYRIAN/MAN OF SIN/ANTI-CHRIST, and they wanted us to know the 8th King was Satan himself. So they kept the verbiage as KINGS.....That is the only reason all are called Kings. And 5 Kings had fallen and ONE WAS......Every Kingdom has a King at the helm when they fall from power. So this is true.

 

 

You have to exhibit the most off kilter exegesis I have seen.