Guest Robert Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 3 hours ago, Salty said: The only time of judgement to condemnation of perishing into the "lake of fire" for flesh born man is after the future 1,000 years of Rev.20. You will not find it written anywhere in God's Word where it says someone born of woman is assigned to the lake of fire already. This is why even our Lord Jesus was careful not to judge unto condemnation into the lake of fire, for that time for His Judgment is not come yet for any flesh born man. To say He did judge even one flesh born man to the lake of fire already is to make Him a liar. Thusly, the beast and false prophet cannot be flesh born men, since they are cast into the lake of fire prior to the day of Judgement after the 1,000 years reign by Christ. Conversely, you will not find in Scripture where it says they are not born of woman (human beings). So, unless you can find a passage where it says the False Prophet and the Beast are not human beings, you're going to have to back off from your assertion here. As for Jesus saying His time had not come for judgment yet, He was speaking about His first coming, not the Second; you are trying to apply something He intended for His time on Earth to span all of His reign in the future, and it doesn't work. God doesn't play games... perhaps it it time to explain why He doesn't, and why mishandling Scripture is such a bad idea as we near the Rapture and then the Tribulation. I am done in this thread, but my work here is just beginning... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted October 19, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,627 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,366 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted October 19, 2016 13 hours ago, Salty said: The reason the 8th final beast king is 'of' the previous 7 is because it's about Satan, as Satan has been over all the previous 6 beast kings of history, and will be the 7th, and then after the 1,000 years of Rev.20 he will in final be the 8th beast king when he is loosed from the pit to go tempt the nations one final time. There are only three identifiable kingdoms that affect the end of the age prophecy, and it begins with Babylon. Then Persia and after Persia, Greece. The Iron Kingdom follows this in what appears to be two forms; one purely iron and the other iron mixed with clay. There are no kingdoms mentioned prior to Babylon and Nebuchadnezzar so any position claiming that two kingdoms can be added to the prophecy is uninformed. There is likely no relation between Rev 17:10 and Daniel 2 and the interpretation of the statue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revelation Man Posted October 19, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 4,066 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 551 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/01/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted October 19, 2016 7 hours ago, Salty said: The only time of judgement to condemnation of perishing into the "lake of fire" for flesh born man is after the future 1,000 years of Rev.20. You will not find it written anywhere in God's Word where it says someone born of woman is assigned to the lake of fire already. This is why even our Lord Jesus was careful not to judge unto condemnation into the lake of fire, for that time for His Judgment is not come yet for any flesh born man. To say He did judge even one flesh born man to the lake of fire already is to make Him a liar. Thusly, the beast and false prophet cannot be flesh born men, since they are cast into the lake of fire prior to the day of Judgement after the 1,000 years reign by Christ. The Judgement seat is set up in Rev. 20:4 and those beheaded in the Tribulation are judged. There is no doubt the False Prophet and Anti-Christ are judged here also, they are men, who are cast into hell. Satan is cast into a pit. It s not making God a liar, its just Christians not discerning the bible correctly. Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. The Judgment seat was open for business here, no doubt the two men, Anti-Christ and False Prophet was tried at THIS TIME !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revelation Man Posted October 19, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 4,066 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 551 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/01/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted October 19, 2016 4 hours ago, RobertS said: Conversely, you will not find in Scripture where it says they are not born of woman (human beings). So, unless you can find a passage where it says the False Prophet and the Beast are not human beings, you're going to have to back off from your assertion here. As for Jesus saying His time had not come for judgment yet, He was speaking about His first coming, not the Second; you are trying to apply something He intended for His time on Earth to span all of His reign in the future, and it doesn't work. God doesn't play games... perhaps it it time to explain why He doesn't, and why mishandling Scripture is such a bad idea as we near the Rapture and then the Tribulation. I am done in this thread, but my work here is just beginning... "Man of Sin", "Man of Lawlessness", "the Assyrian", "his Number is the Number of a Man". It is beyond obvious they are both men. This is not really up for discussion. Some people get in to deep and imagine lots of things, instead of keeping it simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted October 19, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted October 19, 2016 7 hours ago, douggg said: What? What? What? But you wrote that the false prophet is Satan. And the false prophet gets cast into the lake fire when Jesus returns. While Satan goes to another place, the bottomless pit. So the false prophet cannot be Satan. I'll bet your mind still has you thinking the false prophet is some flesh born aid de camp to the antichrist, a long held Church tradition of men. They even make the mistake of inserting the role of false prophet into the Rev.13:11-18 Scripture where it is not written, and thus detracting from Rev.13:11-18 which is revealing the "another beast" that takes power over the first beast (kingdom). The false prophet and "another beast" and beast king are all ROLES that Satan will play when he shows up here on earth. Have you not read Rev.12:7 when Satan and his angels are kicked out of the heavenly dimension down to our earth, and a woe is given to those living on the earth? That was not history, it's still to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted October 19, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted October 19, 2016 5 hours ago, RobertS said: Conversely, you will not find in Scripture where it says they are not born of woman (human beings). So, unless you can find a passage where it says the False Prophet and the Beast are not human beings, you're going to have to back off from your assertion here. As for Jesus saying His time had not come for judgment yet, He was speaking about His first coming, not the Second; you are trying to apply something He intended for His time on Earth to span all of His reign in the future, and it doesn't work. God doesn't play games... perhaps it it time to explain why He doesn't, and why mishandling Scripture is such a bad idea as we near the Rapture and then the Tribulation. I am done in this thread, but my work here is just beginning... I'm not required to find a passage directly stating the false prophet and beast won't be flesh human beings. Firstly, for the beast, that can only apply to two things given in Revelation, the beast kingdom of Rev.13:1-2 which is the 1st beast described there, and then the "another beast" which is an entity that will take power over the 1st beast as also written in Rev.13:11 forward. That reveals that 2nd beast is a king, for one who rules over a kingdom is a king. God requires us to use common sense when we study His Word also, not just leave our brains on a shelf. So take your pick, the beast of Rev.19:20 that goes into the lake of fire is: 1. first beast of Rev.13, a beast kingdom? 2. second beast of Rev.13, the "another beast", an entity that takes power over the 1st beast? It's BOTH, because the role of king over the beast kingdom idea comes from the Book of Daniel, and involved both the ideas of a beast kingdom, and a beast king. Thus both, the beast kingdom, and the ROLE of beast king go into the lake of fire when Jesus returns. The "false prophet" - first mention is in Rev.16, not Rev.13 like everyone tries to insert. Rev.13:11-18 is about the 2nd beast, the beast king who takes power over the 1st beast (kingdom). In Rev.16 we are told the false prophet does WHAT? Rev 16:13-14 13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. KJV The dragon we know already is another title for Satan (Rev.12:9). In Rev.12 we are also told waters as a flood are cast out of the 'mouth' of the serpent (Satan). And the only one we are told that will be working those 'miracles' to deceive the whole world is... Rev 13:13-14 13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. KJV Ah..., that's the "another beast", the 2nd beast, an entity, the one who exercises all the power of the first beast (kingdom), deceiving those on earth by those miracles. That another beast comes with two horns like a lamb, but speaks as a dragon, which reveals what? It reveals this 2nd beast is coming to try and exalt himself as our Lord Jesus, as God here on earth, working great signs and wonders and miracles to deceive. That is why many scholars add the "false prophet" idea to this "another beast" entity in Rev.13, even though it's not written. Are they correct doing that? Yes, somewhat, because it's that "another beast" entity we are first told will work those great signs, wonders, and miracles to deceive the world. So even when others apply the "false prophet" to that "another beast" of Rev.13 (which is actually a beast king), they are indirectly saying what I've been saying all along, i.e., that the false prophet is just another role for the 2nd beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted October 19, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted October 19, 2016 (edited) 4 hours ago, Diaste said: There are only three identifiable kingdoms that affect the end of the age prophecy, and it begins with Babylon. Then Persia and after Persia, Greece. The Iron Kingdom follows this in what appears to be two forms; one purely iron and the other iron mixed with clay. There are no kingdoms mentioned prior to Babylon and Nebuchadnezzar so any position claiming that two kingdoms can be added to the prophecy is uninformed. There is likely no relation between Rev 17:10 and Daniel 2 and the interpretation of the statue. Yes, that's right, only 4 kingdoms total before the final one of the feet of iron mixed with clay. Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome. But Apostle John said five kings have fallen, and one is (meaning the 6th beast king was in John's day). Rev.17:8 & 11 is pointing directly to Satan for that is who ascends out of the bottomless pit and goes into perdition. Even "son of perdition" is one of his titles Paul gave in 2 Thess.2:3-4. Would what Satan did against God when he originally rebelled and drew a third of the stars (angels) to the earth with him involve an original beast king slot? I say yes. There's your five fallen kings, Satan originally when he first rebelled coveting God's Throne, and involving a beast kingdom of old that had ten horns, seven heads, but only seven crowns (did you miss that from Rev.12:3-4 which was describing back to the time of his original rebellion?), then Babylon, which was the very first mimic in our present world of a world kingdom in place of God's, and then Persia, then Greece, then Rome. Edited October 19, 2016 by Salty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted October 19, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted October 19, 2016 1 hour ago, Revelation Man said: The Judgement seat is set up in Rev. 20:4 and those beheaded in the Tribulation are judged. There is no doubt the False Prophet and Anti-Christ are judged here also, they are men, who are cast into hell. Satan is cast into a pit. It s not making God a liar, its just Christians not discerning the bible correctly. Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. The Judgment seat was open for business here, no doubt the two men, Anti-Christ and False Prophet was tried at THIS TIME !! I disagree. When the beast and false prophet are thrown into the "lake of fire" at the start of Christ's 1,000 years reign at His coming, that means they are right then judged and sentenced. They will not be judged again, which is how you are saying. As for those of the "first resurrection" you are speaking of, those are the saints which will reign with Jesus over the nations when He returns. They involve the faithful all the way back to Adam also. They are not just only those who go through the tribulation for the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revelation Man Posted October 19, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 4,066 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 551 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/01/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted October 19, 2016 21 minutes ago, Salty said: I disagree. When the beast and false prophet are thrown into the "lake of fire" at the start of Christ's 1,000 years reign at His coming, that means they are right then judged and sentenced. They will not be judged again, which is how you are saying. As for those of the "first resurrection" you are speaking of, those are the saints which will reign with Jesus over the nations when He returns. They involve the faithful all the way back to Adam also. They are not just only those who go through the tribulation for the end. The Church goes to Heaven, the Beheaded are judged and reign with Christ a 1000 years. If the Two Men are thrown into hell, they were judged. Hence they were judged at this same time. Its not that complicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted October 19, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted October 19, 2016 Just now, Revelation Man said: The Church goes to Heaven, the Beheaded are judged and reign with Christ a 1000 years. If the Two Men are thrown into hell, they were judged. Hence they were judged at this same time. Its not that complicated. You just changed Scripture without authorization by those statements. 1. Jesus returns back to this earth, we don't go to Heaven. He gathers the "asleep" saints only from Heaven, and brings them with Him when He comes. For those of us still alive on earth when He comes, we are gathered to Him, and them, on the way to Jerusalem on earth. That is where Jesus and His elect priests and kings will reign from, at Jerusalem, on earth, for 1,000 years. 2. Being thrown into the "lake of fire" means to perish. The beast and false prophet are thrown into it while never making it to the Great White Throne Judgment that only happens after the 1,000 years. They are thus judged and sentenced ... early. No flesh man will be judged to 'perish' prior to the Great White Throne Judgment. There are many times of judgment per God's Word, but only one time of the Great White Throne Judgment to the perishing of one's soul, and it is set only for after Christ's future 1,000 years reign. I suggest you study up on Apostle Paul's teaching for when he showed the time is when all souls will appear before Jesus' Judgment Seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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