Who is The 7th Kingdom Beast (and 8th) of Rev?

[Diaste]

On 9/26/2016 at 5:30 PM, Revelation Man said:

Hello Sister in Christ Greeting in Jesus name.

As you may or may not recall, I mentioned the Assyrian a while back, and he is found in Isaiah chapter 10 and is very relevant. But just because he is of Assyrian descent, doesn't mean he is an Islamist or from Turkey or Syria, it only means he is of Assyrian heritage. So being brief, I will take this point by point. 

 

1. His Nationality, Region, : He does not have to be from the Region of his descent. Jews are born and come to power in America for example, likewise Kennedy was of Irish descent but became an American president. We have to be careful here and follow the bibles guidance. By doing so later, we will see he is born in Greece.

2. Leader of Ancient Assyrian Region: I think the above solves this problem also. 

3. Leader of the Islamic Federation: Do you really think the world is going allow an Islamist, via peace, to come into a dictatorial position ? And not by Military strength either. 

4. He rules the world: True, but he is a European ruler.

 

Reread Daniel 7 and 8 with a blank mind. In Daniel 7 the Little Horn (Anti-Christ) arises out of the Fourth Beast, but in the Latter Times when the 10 Kings Rule. The Fourth Beast is Rome. (Five are fallen Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia and Greece....And ONE IS Rome and one is YET TO COME Revived Rome or the Anti-Christ arising up in the last times out of the Fourth Beast. In Daniel 8, this ruthless leader arises out of one of the Four Generals Kingdom in the LATTER TIMES, so Greece is in the European Union.  Daniel 11 tells us he is from a small peoples. Rev. 13 says the body of the Beast is like unto a Leopard. 

The RRE is based on the Little Horn arising out of the Fourth Beast.

The EU was not the dreadful Beast, that was the original Rome. The RRE and the Anti-Christ comes to power via peace and deceit, something no Muslim would ever be given is a CHANCE to rule the World. 

 

The Anti-Christ and his Kings will destroy Islam. This Islam angle is the modern angle, because of current events, 40 years ago it was something else. But the bible stays on a steady course. He arises out of the Fourth Beast and out of one of Alexanders four generals kingdoms. 

 

The main reason I discounted this 10 or 15 years ago, before I even studied it, was logic. There is no way a Islamic person will be trusted with such powers via peace. And all the Islamic nations combined would disappear if they tried to subjugate the rest of the world. Its just illogical on its face. Then through study, I saw that the Anti-Christ arises out of the Fourth Beast which was Rome and also out of Greece, which is in the EU. Which are a small peoples (nation). 

 

Out of the Billions that die, many will be Islamist, Christians will be raptured. They must worship the Beast as God or die, what do you think they will do ? They bomb people now for no reason. 

 

God Bless.

Scripture never says the beast is trusted through peace to rule the world. That's just ludicrous. Scripture does say peace is taken from the earth. Every pretribber jumps to the conclusion that because peace is taken from the earth, therefore worldwide peace must exist between all countries. But that is not the only answer to 'take peace from the earth'. As good an answer is what ISIS has done to the world. The general population has no peace during everyday life anymore. This is perhaps more legitimate than worldwide peace as the answer. Even the beast does not 'rule through peace' nor obtain his own kingdom through flatteries, (remember, he has to subdue three kings in order to solidify his power, that ain't peace.)

The beast comes to power by the influence of the dragon regarding an impossible healing and through this act the world worships the beast and the dragon. This is where the power and authority of the beast emanates, from transcendent other dimensional power the likes of which none alive have witnessed. This is the pole that vaults the beast to adoration through fear. And even then not every people just falls in line. Dan 11:36-45 recounts the warring actions of certain countries against the willful king.

[Diaste]

20 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Hello M.C. There is no nation currently called Assyria. The Assyrian is only descended from this lineage, Daniel 7 and 8, imho, tells us exactly what Country he arises in. Have you ever read my blog on where the Anti-Christ is born ?    http://mrrondonmon.blogspot.com/2016/03/the-birthplace-of-anti-christ.html

 

I understand that we have an influx of Muslims in Europe, but we are also starting to see the Europeans push back, the Germans are turning against Merkel. But the Muslim angle is just the deception plan by Satan. He has to gain power via a trusted individual, someone considered "trustworthy" the world will never trust a Muslim with such powers, its just not how Satan thinks. he knows better. You know how Satan thinks? Scary. If I know this, he knows this for starters, and secondly, he doesn't want to compete with Allah, he wants to be worshiped as God, so he is going to come to power via the Humanism Group, the pro homosexual, pro sin, pro environmental wackos etc. etc.

How would Satan compete with Allah? Since Allah is a false god, likely created by Satan through the power of suggestion, one doesn't even exist except in the mind of the delusional. In reality Allah is Satan. 

 

I understand the way they think, but they are deceived right ? Satan is feigning this move to deceive people about his real move, which is why we have to rely on the Scriptures. Daniel 7 and 8 tell us the A.C. arises in Greece. Just think about it, would world leaders entrust any Muslim leader in the world now with the Powers the AC has to achieve in order to become a dictator ? The answer is no, Europe and the West would never give a Muslim such powers. 

You seem to think there has to be trust and Satan has to gain power through covert actions. Scripture is quite clear that Satan has been unleashed, cast to earth, in a burning rage, bent on bloody conquest and violent usurpation, to accomplish the means of the Almighty for his glorious purpose. I think this all has to be one of the strangest understandings of the scriptures in this area I have ever heard. Where are you learning this?

 

[Revelation Man]

9 hours ago, Diaste said:

Actually Rome did not enslave Israel. Rome really didn't enslave anyone, they enforced the Pax Romana. If you look at the dynamic between the Jews and the Roman rulers in the NT you'll see the Jews had their own local religious governing body, The Sanhedrin. The Jews had their own businesses and in fact were EMPLOYED, as in paid, to build Herod's temple. 

In the case of the Jews in Babylon and Egypt the Almighty God put them under bondage in those nations. If anyone 'enslaved' the Jews in either Babylon or Egypt, it was the Lord Himself. 

It's an impossible connection equating the Statue with the 7 kings of Rev 17:10. The statue represents 4 kings and kingdoms, not 6. No justification exists for adding nations to a prophecy concerning 4 specific nations. The statue begins with Babylon and Nebuchadnezzar, not Assyria nor Egypt. He is the head and the rest of the concerned nations flow from Babylon. Notice how the Medo-Persian and Grecian empire each replace the previous. The Iron Kingdom does the same. Rome never replaced either Babylon, Medo-Persia, or Greece in the region from which they ruled. There is an unbroken chain from Greece to Islam in the Mideast. After Greece, Seleucus ruled in the Mideast and was never conquered by Rome. From the Seleucid Kingdom Islam rose under Mohammed in the 7th century. Scripture says the little horn arises out of one of the four that replaced Alexander. No matter what the identity of the little horn cannot ever be defined as Rome or Roman.

Lets not quibble with the terms enslaved or conquered vs. Ruled. The Seven Heads still have one thing in common, the USA was more powerful Militarily than all of those mentioned, and England ruled 3/4 of the world. The common thread is what I stated.  I understand the Pax Romana, without it the Gospel couldn't have spread so freely, with one common language pretty much, and one ruling Gov. pretty much which made travel between countries a reality. 

 

It doesn't matter about God using people/Nations to punish Israel, they are still Anti-God, Heathen Nations that tried to destroy Gods peoples. 

 

The Statue is told from the King of Babylons time-frame/POV, the other two kingdoms do not need mentioning here. The vision is about what is to happen going forward. In Rev. 17 it is about looking backwards to all Seven Kingdoms that conquered, enslaved or Ruled Israel. Now, lets use some logic and lets put the mosaic together. The Beast in Rev. 17 has Seven Heads and 10 Horns. Same as the Beast in Rev. 13, which is said to have what ? The Body of a Leopard, paws of a Bear and mouth of a Loin.  John would have to slap us to be more clear, this is the Same Beast(s) of Daniel in a conglomerate Beast of one. See if you can find any other nations that have conquered Gods peoples but those Six nations, plus the predicted nation to come which will do the same, and take over Gods Temple while Israel flees to the Wilderness. 

 

The Dream was to Nebuchadnezzar, not unto a Pharaoh, thus the remaining Kingdoms from Daniels time forward were all Nebuchadnezzar needed to see to understand the Vision, that all Nations that come against God and his chosen people are seen as Beasts, who will eventually be conquered by the Rock, that is cut out of the Mountain, one Jesus.

 

At the end the Beast is cast into hell. Just like the Idol is destroyed.

 

Sorry, imho, I see nothing to do with any Arab leader or nation, imho, it is deception by Satan, feigning one way and coming from another direction. It fails the logic test that any Muslim would ever be given such powers freely, via peace, and they do not have a big enough military to take this supposed "coming power". And Daniel 7 Clearly says the Little Horn arises out of the Fourth Beast, which was the Roman Empire, in the Latter Days. Dan. 8 says he arises out of Greece. Greece is in Rome/European Unon. Islam, imho, is a part of the Harlot that is judged and destroyed.

 

 

Edited September 28, 2016 by Revelation Man

[Revelation Man]

6 hours ago, Diaste said:

You should really read what you post cause the next two verses dispute your claim.

Not at all, when two scriptures contradict themselves, we have to look at context to find the answers. The one scripture says he will not regard any God and will Magnify Himself above all Gods. We understand something happens, it is very Clear, the Anti-Christ is the 7th King, he gets possessed by the 8th King that comes out of perdition (Satan or Apollyon) who was of the Seven. He is now in control, this is why the 7th King only rules a short time and why the Beast is said to be given power over the Saints for 42 Months. The 7th King (Anti-Christ/Atheist) is not the 8th King, even though both rule in the same mans body. Notice Dan. 11:38 turns to the God of Forces ? The First Seal is the White Horse going forth to Conquer. This happens at the mid-way point of the last seven years that Daniel prophesied about......The 70th Week.  The "God" is Satan, who possesses the Anti-Christ. He demands to be worshiped as GOD or all shall perish who refuse to worship him !!

6 hours ago, Diaste said:

38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: Obviously honoring a God here. and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things. Here the beast pays tribute to a God with all kinds of expensive stuff. 39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, Consorting with a 'strange god'? Another reference to the beast in cahoots with a God.  whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: So here we see the beast acknowledging this God? Clearly the beast honors a God of some stripe. and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain. {{ He will be a Warmonger, we know this because of the White and Red Horses of the Apocalypse. Satan possesses him. verse 38 and 39 are basically speaking about that. }}

 

6 hours ago, Diaste said:

So how to resolve the two apparently contradictory statements: "nor regard any god' and the obvious worship of a God by the beast? 

First, both statements are true.

Second, we cannot ignore one true statement in favor of the other.

Third, both ideas, 'nor regard any god' and ' shall he honour the God of forces' must be true at the same time. 

The simple solution presents itself in the text. Verse 37 speaks to known gods. That would be all the millions of gods of the many religions of the world. Verse 38 and 39 speak to a specific named God (forces, strange). This is a covert God, or one not yet known to mankind, or perhaps the God of all the false gods in the world. Whatever the case this God is 'strange' the ruler of 'forces' and the beast pays tribute to this God, acknowledges this God, and increases the glory of this strange God of forces. 

I answered these two above, in one place, Above.

6 hours ago, Diaste said:

Logic? Hmm... Muslims and Islam did indeed already control the world, for over a millennia. Muslims and Islam had a great deal of military power for centuries. So much military power in fact, to avoid defeat the Roman legions had to fall back consistently to their fortified cities to withstand the virulent onslaught of the vast Muslim hordes. Actually Islam must be considered as one of the four possible origin points of the beast. Since you know the beast comes from one of the Diadochi there is no 'twist' of the meaning. The beast must come from either Egypt, Asia Minor, Greece or the Seleucid Kingdom. No twist there. Now lets follow the succession of the statue.

Babylon ruled in the Mideast. Notably from Iraq in Babylon. So did Medo-Persia. Apparently Darius named Alexander as successor to his kingdom while on his deathbed. Seleucus ruled from Babylon as well after the death of Alexander and the consolidation of power in the Mideast. That's four kings all ruling from the same place. Good evidence the little horn comes from the Mideast. More excellent evidence is Dan 11. This chapter follows the succession of Kings in the Seleucid empire from Seleucus I through Antiochus IV and on to the wilfull king whom commits the following, "36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods,". This is the beast; and he hails from the remnants of Greece in Iraq, issuing from his Seleucid ancestors.

I see you're stuck in the same thinking the rest of the various religious communities suffer: secular interpretation of spiritual truths. The beast is not coming to power through military, political, or economic powers. What so many do is relate the seals to the power of the beast in the wrong order. Many, you included, assume that because the seals contain a conqueror, war, famine and economic power, the beast must obtain military might, and political and economic power from the world before the conditions of the seals are realized. Of course this is all assumption based on the incorrect view. I understand how this can happen. We all typically interpret everything based on personal experience and either education or knowledge. This is wrong when ascertaining biblical truths. Our worldview must be suspended in favor of the words of the God of Truth. 

Scripture does say the beast will exercise military, political and economic power over the earth. But this power extends from the beast becoming the beast. The obtaining of such power does not create the beast. In other words, the beast is the cause of the seal conditions and the conditions, nor the consolidation of powers, do not cause the beast. 

The beast is created thus:

Daniel says this tyrant comes to power via Peace. Daniel 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince (Jesus) of princes; but he shall be broken without hand. { Just like the Rock is cut out of the Mountain without hands. }

So this Anti-Christ comes to power via peace. Islam didn't come into being until circa, the year 700 AD, and without Israel (Jews) in the Land, no Beast could rule Israel, the 2000 years in between is the Church Age/Pentecost Age. Babylon was in Iraq, Persia however was from Iran, just because they conquered and lived in Babylon, really means nothing, ditto for Alexander, who conquered Darius, who then ran for his life. He lived in Babylon, but Greece was the Empire, not Babylon. 

 

I understand he comes to power via Peace, which is why no logical thinking man could ever see it as being a Muslim, imho. But my point is, he would not be trusted as a Muslim, and as a Muslim he would not have the Military power. I am proving that both ways or that either way you look at it, its a no go via logic.

6 hours ago, Diaste said:

Only when the deadly head wound is healed does the beast burst forth on the world conscious. The dragon gives the beast his power. Now why is this different? It could be argued that the dragons power is the military, political and economic powers of the world. Sure, I can agree with that. But since the dragon, not the world powers, give this power to the beast, it has nothing to do with whether the world leaders trust a Muslim or Islam. The authority of the dragon is not reliant on the assent of the world leaders, just the opposite in fact. In this verse the world sees the dragon or at least understands from whence the beasts power cometh, and the world worships the dragon. Neither verse speaks to a consortium previously engaged in tense high level secret meetings to determine an individual on which to confer all their power and authority. In fact, it's illogical to hold such a position. No one country is going to abdicate in favor of an individual that has no authority of his own, much less 10 countries. Such an interpretation is suspect prima facie. Ten nations do not give their power to the beast. The little horn subdues three nations and the rest follow. It's obvious these 10 nations aren't interested in giving any of their power to the little horn until after the little horn subdues three of these nations. It has nothing to do with the trust of the 10 nations in a individual to lead them, it's a violent takeover and the rest capitulate. Further, these 10 nations have no power of their own and only receive power with the beast. 

The Deadly wound can very will be the fact that the Seventh Head  of the Beast was Healed etc. etc. He does get his power from Satan because Satan possesses him. The Harlot is False Religion, the Kings and the Beast will destroy False Religion/Islam. Understanding Rev. 17 and 18 is the KEY to opening up prophecy in Revelation.

This Anti-Christ is born in Greece, of Assyrian/Turkish parents or grandparents, he comes to power, is an Atheist, then comes to power in Brussels or if they Move it to Rome, in Rome, as President of the European Union. Then he deals with Israel, and betrays Israel. The Bible in Rev. says the 10 Nations give their power to the Beast, no doubt three try to change their positions, and are destroyed.

The Trust is via the rest of the world, like Israel, taking their guard down and making peace with this tyrant.

Edited September 28, 2016 by Revelation Man

[Revelation Man]

5 hours ago, Diaste said:

You know how Satan thinks? Scary.

Why ? I know he is not stupid he is brilliant, don't you know that ? I play Chess, so I understand logic and feints. I understand Satan is not going to do what everyone thinks he is going to do. He is not going to chose a vehicle which is suspect, which will give him problems becoming a dictator. He is going to choose a vehicle/person/nationality which gives him the least resistance to the power he is seeking. A Muslim has no chance of becoming a world dictator, sorry, I know this, and I am sure Satan understands this also. Whilst a person from Europe, who destroys Islam, revives the World Economy, and brings peace to Israel, will be seen as trustworthy, and brilliant. Please explain to me , logically how any Muslim, in today's world, could ever come to be a World Dictator, it is impossible in my mind. This world dictator not only has to gain the trust of the world, but has to have access to Satellites to track every human in the world, an NSA like apparatus to observe every persons conversations, be in control of the worlds currencies etc. etc. No Muslim can achieve this, its just not going to happen, imho. Its a head fake by Satan, some see through it, some think differently. 

5 hours ago, Diaste said:

How would Satan compete with Allah? Since Allah is a false god, likely created by Satan through the power of suggestion, one doesn't even exist except in the mind of the delusional. In reality Allah is Satan. 

 

The Muslims will still seek to Serve Allah. The Anti-Christ/Beast/Satan seeks all to Worship the Image of the Beast, OR DIE !! Muslims have been deceived by Satan, no doubt. But now Satan wants to make them serve him as God, not some fictitious god named Allah, Satan wants to be worshiped as GOD !! The Beast/Anti-Christ is going to be a pro-homosexual, pro-abortion, pro-liberal positions on all things type person. Muslims will refuse to serve this Beast/Anti-Christ. They will not serve a man. Some will, but most will be killed off.

5 hours ago, Diaste said:

On 9/27/2016 at 0:22 PM, Revelation Man said:

You seem to think there has to be trust and Satan has to gain power through covert actions. Scripture is quite clear that Satan has been unleashed, cast to earth, in a burning rage, bent on bloody conquest and violent usurpation, to accomplish the means of the Almighty for his glorious purpose. I think this all has to be one of the strangest understandings of the scriptures in this area I have ever heard. Where are you learning this?

 

Even the humans of this evil world would not place a man in power, if they knew he was going to murder Billions of people. I am going to be in Heaven during this time, so I am not worried about it, but I do worry about others not heeding the truth, and not being ready when the Bridegroom comes.

Edited September 28, 2016 by Revelation Man

[Diaste]

3 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Lets not quibble with the terms enslaved or conquered vs. Ruled. The Seven Heads still have one thing in common, the USA was more powerful Militarily than all of those mentioned, and England ruled 3/4 of the world. The common thread is what I stated.  I understand the Pax Romana, without it the Gospel couldn't have spread so freely, with one common language pretty much, and one ruling Gov. pretty much which made travel between countries a reality. 

Your main argument for Rome as the Iron Kingdom is the idea they enslaved Israel along with the first 5. Now you don't want to 'quibble'? Maybe not, but you are vacillating.

 

It doesn't matter about God using people/Nations to punish Israel, they are still Anti-God, Heathen Nations that tried to destroy Gods peoples. 

Of course it matters. It means that Nebuchadnezzar was servant of the Most High as stated in scripture. Notice how Nebuchadnezzar was never destroyed for what happened to the Jews. God gave him a great kingdom and even greater power. Babylon under Nebuchadnezzar was a God fearing kingdom that honored the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. You are misinformed.

 

The Statue is told from the King of Babylons time-frame/POV, the other two kingdoms do not need mentioning here. The vision is about what is to happen going forward. In Rev. 17 it is about looking backwards to all Seven Kingdoms that conquered, enslaved or Ruled Israel. Now, lets use some logic and lets put the mosaic together. The Beast in Rev. 17 has Seven Heads and 10 Horns. Same as the Beast in Rev. 13, which is said to have what ? The Body of a Leopard, paws of a Bear and mouth of a Loin.  John would have to slap us o be more clear, this is the Same Beast(s) of Daniel in a conglomerate Beast of one. See if you can find any other nations that have conquered Gods peoples but those Six nations, plus the predicted nation to come which will do the same, and take over Gods Temple while Israel flees to the Wilderness. 

But that is not what you said earlier. You were adamant about the line of beast kingdoms beginning with Assyria and ending in Rome with the commonality of enslavement and persecution of the Jews. And above you say they do not need mentioning but then you bring it up in the next sentence. There is no looking back in rev 17:10. Rev 4:1 says, "...Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter." That means hereafter John. The 'one is' must only occur after John. The second issue, there are not 6 kingdoms in the statue, only 4. You cannot add on whimsy because it jives with a personal interpretation. Nations that have conquered Israel other than the 6 you mistakenly believe conquered Israel in the common thread of persecution pretrib demands? How about the Palestinians? They lived there exclusively for over 1800 years after Rome dispersed the Jews. I would say they conquered, settled and owned it. Germany enslaved the Jews from a dozen countries in Europe. Islam ruled in Israel proper for 1000 years. 

 

The Dream was to Nebuchadnezzar, not unto a Pharaoh, thus the remaining Kingdoms from Daniels time forward were all Nebuchadnezzar needed to see to understand the Vision, that all Nations that come against God and his chosen people are seen as Beasts, who will eventually be conquered by the Rock, that is cut out of the Mountain, one Jesus.

Now you're talking about two very different things. The statue is one thing the beasts are quite another. Better to fully explore a single bit evidence than stuff it all in a blender.

 

 

At the end the Beast is cast into hell. Just like the Idol is destroyed.

 

Sorry, imho, I see nothing to do with any Arab leader or nation, imho, it is deception by Satan, feigning one way and coming another. It fails the logic test that any Muslim would every be given such powers freely, via peace, and they do not have a big enough military to take this supposed coming power. And Daniel 7 Clearly says the Little Horn arises out of the Fourth Beast, which was the Roman Empire, in the Latter Days. Dan. 8 says he arises out of Greece. Greece is in Rome. Islam, imho, is a part of the Harlot that is judged and destroyed.

The Logic test? What is that? You mean the logic that the little horn rises from the Diadochi and therefore has nothing to do with Rome? The little horn being the AC which must rise from the four notable ones after the great horn was broken. 

You really need to pay attention to what you're typing. Dan 8 say the beast comes from Greece; Dan 7 says the beast comes from Rome? What are you talking about?

Greece is in Rome? Um, Greece is a country and Rome is a city, in a country called Italy. How is a country in a city?

 

 

 

[Diaste]

2 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Not at all, when two scriptures contradict themselves, we have to look at context to find the answers. The one scripture says he will not regard any God and will Magnify Himself above all Gods. We understand something happens, it is very Clear, the Anti-Christ is the 7th King, he gets possessed by the 8th King that comes out of perdition (Satan or Apollyon) who was of the Seven. He is now in control, this is why the 7th King only rules a short time and why the Beast is said to be given power if the Saints for 42 Months. The 7th King (Anti-Christ/Atheist) is not the 8th King, even though both rule in the same mans body. Notice 38 turns to the God of Forces ? The First Seal is the White Horse going forth to Conquer. This happen at the mid-way point of the last seven years that Daniel prophesied about...The 70th Week.  The "God" is Satan, who possesses the Anti-Christ. He demands to be worshiped as GOD or all shall perish who refuse to worship him !!

Wrong. That leaves the problem of Satan worshiping himself. The verse; 

³⁸ But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

³⁹ Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.

 

You are saying that Satan possess the the beast. You are also saying that Satan is the God of forces. If this is true then Satan is worshiping himself. But this cannot be true for two reasons Scripture never says the beast is possessed by Satan. That is only a sad assumption by so called experts. There is no scripture for such possession here. And an all other examples of demon possession in scripture the poor possessed is driven mad and out of control. Not the MO for someone who has to subjugate the entire world. So you'll have to prove that with solid scripture. Two, we could not have the willful king giving gifts and acknowledging this God of forces.  So no, your conclusion is wrong.

 

I answered these two above, in one place.

Daniel says this tyrant comes to power via Peace. Daniel 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince (Jesus) of princes; but he shall be broken without hand. { Just like the Rock is cut out of the Mountain without hands. }

"By peace he shall destroy many:" is not the same as your belief that he will come to power through peace. There is no connection here. This could be and likely is, a reference to the treaty for peace in Israel for 7 years. After which, when the treaty is broken, the beast destroys many.

So this Anti-Christ comes to power via peace.(No, he comes to power through the healed head wound when the world is in awe and wonders who can war against him.) Islam didn't come into being until circa, the year 700 AD, and without Israel (Jews)(You are mistaken, there were Jews in Israel during Muslim rule. According to this source:  "Timeline for the History of Judaism - Medieval Period in the West". Jewish Virtual Library. Retrieved 9 November 2013. almost 150,000 Jews were living in Israel in 638 A.D. when the Muslims captured the city.) in the Land, no Beast could rule Israel,(Clearly this makes the case for Germany as a ruling power over Israel, and outside the 6 you mentioned, challenge met, twice.) the 2000 years in between is the Church Age/Pentecost Age. Babylon was in Iraq, Persia however was from Iran, just because the conquered and lived in Babylon, really means nothing, ditto for Alexander, who conquered Darius, who then ran for his life. He lived in Babylon, but Greece was the Empire, not Babylon. 

 

I understand he comes to power via Peace, which is why no logical thinking man(I see. pretty insulting. So anyone who disagrees with you on this point is neither logical,(a demeaning comment) nor a thinking person. Totally insulting.) could ever see it as being a Muslim, imho. But my point is, he would not be trusted as a Muslim, and as a Muslim he would not have the Military power. I am proving that both ways or that either way you look at it, its a no go via logic. 

It's not logic. Muslims were great leaders and ruled over the know world for centuries. Their advancements in medicine, science, architecture, education have shaped the world as we know it today. There are almost 2 billion Muslims and dozens of Muslim countries where Muslim leaders are not only trusted but demanded. So not only are you insulting on a personal level but apparently to a third of the world as well. The USA has a Muslim president. Turkey. All Mideast countries. Indonesia, etc.

The Deadly wound can very will be the fact that the Seventh Head  of the Beast was Healed etc. etc. He does get his power from Satan because Satan possesses him. The Harlot is False Religion, the Kings and the Beast will destroy False Religion/Islam. Understanding Rev. 17 and 18 is the KEY to opening up prophecy in Revelation.

This Anti-Christ is born in Greece, of Assyrian/Turkish parents or grandparents, he comes to power, is an Atheist, then comes to power in Brussels or if they Move it to Rome, in Rome, as President of the European Union. Then he deals with Israel, and betrays Israel. The Bible in Rev. says the 10 Nations give their power to the Beast, no doubt three try to change their positions, and are destroyed.

The Trust is via the rest of the world, like Israel, taking their guard down and making peace with this tyrant.

 

[Diaste]

2 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Why ? I know he is not stupid he is brilliant, don't you know that ?

Either you are bringing the highest created being down to your level, or you are saying you understand the mind of an inter-dimensional, eternal being with god like power. Both are incomprehensible and irresponsible.

I play Chess, so I understand logic and feints.

Really? I challenge you to a game. I'm Diaste on chess with friends and on FICS Please, challenge me.

I understand Satan is not going to do what everyone thinks he is going to do.What? Satan is going to subjugate the world and try to kill everyone and destroy the earth. everybody knows this. Satan is going to do it anyway. He is going to do exactly what God says and what everyone knows.  He is not going to chose a vehicle which is suspect, which will give him problems becoming a dictator. He is going to choose a vehicle which give him the least resistance to the power he is seeking. A Muslim has no chance of becoming a world dictator, sorry, I know this, and I am sure Satan understands this also. No a person from Europe, who destroys Islam and revives the World Economy, and brings peace to Israel, will be see as trustworthy, and brilliant. Please explain to me , logically how any Muslim, in today's world, could ever come to be a World Dictator, it is impossible in my mind.This is only because you don't read the scriptures. You are convinced the beast will come to power through natural means and this is just not the case. The beast is going to die horribly and be brought back to life, an all but impossible resurrection. This will cause the world to worship the beast, and the dragon that gives life back to the beast. Boom! Dictator for life. It's not up to the leaders of the world to bestow power on a man who later becomes the beast. This guy is already the beast and his death and miraculous healing, and impossible resurrection garner both the awe and adoration, and fear, of the dragon and the beast. So put all that in bowl, stir well, let sit for a day or two and Viola! Instant world Dictator.  This world dictator not only has to gain the trust of the world, but has to have access to Satellites to track every human in the world, an NSA like apparatus to observe every persons conversations, be in control of the worlds currencies etc. etc. Just not going to happen. Its a head fake by Satan, some see through it, some think differently. 

The Muslims will still seek to Serve Allah. The Anti-Christ/Beast/Satan seeks all to Worship the Image of the Beast, OR DIE !! Muslims have been deceived by Satan, no doubt. But now Satan wants to make them serve him as God, not some fictitious god named Allah, Satan wants to be worshiped as GOD !! The Beast/Anti-Christ is going to be a pro-homosexual, pro-abortion, pro-liberal positions on all things type god. You cannot possibly know this to a certainty. You're assuming. Wildly. Muslims will refuse to serve this Beast/Anti-Christ. They will not serve a man. Some will, but most will be killed off.

Even the humans of this evil world would not place a man in power, if the knew he was going to murder Billions of people. I am going to be in Heaven during this time, so I am not worried about it, but I do worry about others not heeding the truth, and not being ready when the Bridegroom comes.

 

[Revelation Man]

31 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Your main argument for Rome as the Iron Kingdom is the idea they enslaved Israel along with the first 5. Now you don't want to 'quibble'? Maybe not, but you are vacillating.

 

I was replying to you saying Rome didn't enslave Israel, come on now, when you force your Government onto others, make them pay tribute/taxes etc. etc. That is enslavement/conquering/Ruling over, etc. all. We clearly understand Rome was the Fourth Beast, the very Pax Romana you referred to is why they were "different" than the others. And they did rule with more terror, they crucified on the side of the roads and left them there as a testament to what other had coming, if they did not obey the Romans. John also said in Revelation, ONE IS, and we understand who still ruled Israel, much of the Middle East and Europe in the First Century AD, that would be Rome.

42 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Of course it matters. It means that Nebuchadnezzar was servant of the Most High as stated in scripture. Notice how Nebuchadnezzar was never destroyed for what happened to the Jews. God gave him a great kingdom and even greater power. Babylon under Nebuchadnezzar was a God fearing kingdom that honored the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. You are misinformed.

 

You have it backwards, I am not being snotty, but think about it. You say because God used them thus they didn't conquer Israel. It had nothing to do with the evil heathens who served many gods being "blessed" it had everything with God NOT PROTECTING ISRAEL. He lifted His protection, and thus Satan, as he always has, tried to destroy them, No Israel, no Messiah. Nebuchadnezzar was made to go wild as an animal and live in the wild to humble him. His son lost the Kingdom because in Daniel 5 because he allowed his court to drink wine out of the Chalices/Cups of the Temple of God. Thus God took away their Kingdom, Mene, Mene, Tekel. The fact is, the Seven Kingdoms that Conquered Israel are the Seven Heads spoken of in Rev. chapter 17. I do not know what else to tell you, it just is. 

52 minutes ago, Diaste said:

But that is not what you said earlier. You were adamant about the line of beast kingdoms beginning with Assyria and ending in Rome with the commonality of enslavement and persecution of the Jews. And above you say they do not need mentioning but then you bring it up in the next sentence. There is no looking back in rev 17:10. Rev 4:1 says, "...Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter." That means hereafter John. The 'one is' must only occur after John. The second issue, there are not 6 kingdoms in the statue, only 4. You cannot add on whimsy because it jives with a personal interpretation. Nations that have conquered Israel other than the 6 you mistakenly believe conquered Israel in the common thread of persecution pretrib demands? How about the Palestinians? They lived there exclusively for over 1800 years after Rome dispersed the Jews. I would say they conquered, settled and owned it. Germany enslaved the Jews from a dozen countries in Europe. Islam ruled in Israel proper for 1000 years. 

Show me where, I stated the Assyrian is going to be the Anti-Christ. In Rev, 17 we see that the Seven Heads of the Beast are the Seven Powers that Conquered Israel. In Daniel he only mentions Four Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome, along with a Little Horn or Anti-Christ that arises with 10 Kings out of the Fourth Beast at the End Times, so that is Five in total, from Daniels time. The Dream was from DANIELS and Nebuchadnezzar's time. If God had wanted to have shown Nebuchadnezzar and Daniel the full picture, he could have shown them two more Beasts, (Egypt and Assyria) but WHY WOULD HE ? Why did He need to ? Then God would have had to explained Six Kingdoms, with Babylon being the Third instead of the First, this was not something God felt was relevant. Neither do I, the Seven Headed Beast was explained to us in Revelation 13 and 17.

 

The Dream was hereafter....He clearly says that Four have Fallen and one is. It is really simple. I am telling you what the Holy Spirit leads me to believe, you can believe as you will, I am not going to knock your belief. 

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

Now you're talking about two very different things. The statue is one thing the beasts are quite another. Better to fully explore a single bit evidence than stuff it all in a blender.

 

The Statue and Idol are the exact same thing. The difference is who was dreaming. Nebuchadnezzar saw Kingdoms of precious metal and even clay which was greatly valued then. Daniel saw the Kingdoms as Evil Beasts, because that is how God sees them.

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

The Logic test? What is that? You mean the logic that the little horn rises from the Diadochi and therefore has nothing to do with Rome? The little horn being the AC which must rise from the four notable ones after the great horn was broken. 

You really need to pay attention to what you're typing. Dan 8 say the beast comes from Greece; Dan 7 says the beast comes from Rome? What are you talking about?

Greece is in Rome? Um, Greece is a country and Rome is a city, in a country called Italy. How is a country in a city?

 

You might want to go back and take another look at the post, it was a TYPO that I cleaned up, I think everyone knows I was referring to the European Union, which is the Revived Fourth Beast or Revived Rome. 

 

Like I said, read Daniel 7, the Little Horn/Anti-Christ arises out of the Fourth Beast in the Last Days. In Daniel chapter 8, the Little Horn arises out of the Diadochi, that means the Anti-Christ arises out of TWO-KINGDOMS at once. How can this be ? Well it was given to me a while back and I wrote a more in depth blog on it, Link is Below. Greece/Macedonia is in the European Union.  http://mrrondonmon.blogspot.com/2016/03/the-birthplace-of-anti-christ.html

[Revelation Man]

28 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Wrong. That leaves the problem of Satan worshiping himself. The verse; 

 

And that is what he does, seeks glory for himself. But you fail to see the "Man" who is still living at this time, who gets punished in hell while Satan is bound in the pit for a Thousand Years. By this time, the Atheist Anti-Christ, after the False Prophet comes on the scene, realizes that there is a God and a Devil, and he will be possessed by the Devil. We are speaking from different time zones it seems. I am speaking of the Anti-Christ before he becomes possessed as being an Atheist THIS IS TRUTH....Then after Satan possesses him, he will serve Satan who possesses him. That means that the Anti-Christ, who is now alive, is an Atheist, currently (Which is what I said, he is an Atheist). But when does he start to serve the GOD OF WAR ? Well the First Seal brings forth the Conquering, the Murdering, etc. etc. He is possessed at the Mid-way point. The verses in Daniel tells you the exact same story. He will serve NO GODS, then in the Next verse he Serves the God of War etc. etc. He becomes possessed. 

38 minutes ago, Diaste said:

You are saying that Satan possess the the beast. You are also saying that Satan is the God of forces. If this is true then Satan is worshiping himself. But this cannot be true for two reasons Scripture never says the beast is possessed by Satan. That is only a sad assumption by so called experts. There is no scripture for such possession here. And an all other examples of demon possession in scripture the poor possessed is driven mad and out of control. Not the MO for someone who has to subjugate the entire world. So you'll have to prove that with solid scripture. Two, we could not have the willful king giving gifts and acknowledging this God of forces.  So no, your conclusion is wrong.

 

I can quote scriptures easier then I can explain it here, so I will. I will paste a few and then point out the common threads: Below we understand the Fourth Beast arises after the third beast falls, he was dreadful, terrible and diverse from all the others, then 10 Horns comes up out of this Fourth Beast, and a Little Horn (Anti-Christ) arises and destroys three of the other Horns. 

Daniel 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

{{ This is only telling of this man/beast being cast into hell, the other Kingdoms, when they fell, were not destroyed straight away, Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome all had their dominion taken away, but yet they lived a whole longer, but the Man of Sin will be cast into Hell straight away. }}

Daniel 7:20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows. 21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

Daniel 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up. 24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people. 25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

{{ He speaks against the Gods of Gods, Blaspheming Him as Rev. 13 also says, he makes war with the Saints.....HIS POWER SHALL BE MIGHTY, BUT NOT BY HIS OWN POWER...Meaning Satan is where his power comes from. He understands DARK SENTENCES (Riddles and Conundrums, because he is possessed by Satan}}. 

Revelation 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. 11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. 12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

{{ So there are 5 that have fallen, one that IS (Rome) and one that IS YET TO COME (Anti-Christ) so who is the 8th King that was OF ALL SEVEN ? It can only be Satan, or Apollyon who is released from the pit in Rev. 9. (either way, Satan Rules) Notice the Seventh King or the One that is yet to Come, lasts but a SHORT TIME !! Then the 8th King comes on the Scene. But Demons have to have Human Bodies to operate in.  We understand that the Anti-Christ is possessed by reading Revelation chapter 16 also. Revelation 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. }}

Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him ? 5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 

{{ So the Dragon gives the power to the Beast, and he is given power to continue or Rule for 42 Months.  But the Anti-Christ/Man of Sin is around for at least 7 Years, so the Man of Sin/Anti-Christ (7th King) rules for a short time or the first 3 1/2 years. Then he is possessed by the 8th King, as Rev. 17 says, and this 8th King is given power to rule for 42 Months/1260 days or 3 1/2 years. }}

 

Just throwing this out there......its about Apollyon....... Revelation 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

Revelation 17:7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

 

{{ Is it Apollyon that possesses the Anti-Christ ? Seems it very well could be, nevertheless, Satan is the Master of the Dark world. }}

An overview of what I spoke of in a snapshot so to speak : BELOW

Over and over emphasis is given to the Antichrist’s mouth. He will boast non-stop about himself (Daniel 7:8). He will “speak monstrous things against the God of gods” (Daniel 11:36). He will be “given a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies” (Revelation 13:5). First and foremost, he is going to be a braggart and a blasphemer.

He will be strong willed and reckless in his determination to have his way. He will show contempt for human traditions and will, of course, change even the calendar so that it will no longer be related to the birth of Jesus (Daniel 7:25).

Another point that is emphasized repeatedly is that the Antichrist will be possessed by Satan, just as Judas was (Luke 22:3). Daniel says his power will be mighty, “but not by his own power” (Daniel 8:24). Paul says his coming will be “in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders” (2 Thessalonians 2:9). John says that Satan will give his power and authority to the Antichrist (Revelation 13:2).

Because he will be demonized, he will be a man who cannot be trusted. Psalm 52:2 says he will be a “worker of deceit.” Psalm 55:21 says his speech will be “smoother than butter” but his heart will be filled with war. Psalm 5:6 calls him “a man of bloodshed and deceit.” In Psalm 43:1 he is referred to as a “deceitful and unjust man.”

 

I better stop there, ran a little long there, as quoting scriptures usually does in our posts.

God Bless.