Who is The 7th Kingdom Beast (and 8th) of Rev?

[other one]

keep in mind that this beast comes up from the Abyss.....   so what's in the Abyss that could possibly come up.

not Rome but an entity.  Apollo is the King there, but do we know for sure what may come up.    I don't.

The only thing that I am aware of that is now in the Abyss would be  fallen angels and millions of locusts.

 

[Sab]

I also believe mystery babylon is Constantinople (shock horror!)

For many years i thought she was Rome - 7 heads are 7 mountains on which the woman sits, but in 1997 out of boredom more than anything else i typed "seven hills" into search  on my newly acquired digital encyclopedia. Istanbul came up. I thought that  was odd as at the time i knew nothing at all about Istanbul. I discovered it had once been called Constantinople and was the eastern capital of the empire and after the fall of the western half of the empire in 476 it continued as the capital of the Roman Empire until 1453.

I thought that was interesting as nebuchadnezzar's image had 2 legs in Dan 2 but it was years before i connected it with Rev 17.

Over a period of years i learned much more about the history of the eastern roman empire and the more i learned the more i had a niggling feeling that it was very important in the history of the church and prophecy but i just could not see where. Then one day i was trying to explain this to hubby and he challenged me with, "well how did the 10 horns hate her and burn her with fire?"

I had never even thought about that but instantly i said, "piece of cake... 4th crusade. "

That surprised hubby and me because i had never ever connected anything about constantinople with rev 17.

I was shocked because it was like shaking a box of puzzle pieces and throwing it on the floor to see every piece in place!

All the pieces of history i had suddenly formed a big picture.

The cup of abomination in her hand is the corrupted gospel that she held and that all the nations have drank from (rev 14:8)

The 10 horns hated her because they were catholic (and that was their one mind) and she was greek orthodox, they burned her with fire and looted her massive wealth in 1204.

But when the turks took her in 1453 they wept and wailed when tbey saw the smoke of her burning (rev 18:9) Those verses puzzled me for years. I used to wonder why were they lamenting in 18:9 when they burned her in 17:16... and yet this is exactly what happened in history.

 

 

[Sab]

Other one,

The abyss is Satan's domain. So whatever comes from the abyss is satanic. Didnt Paul write about the depths  of satan? (I can't  remember where)

The locusts from the abyss... I believe the locusts are symbols of Arabs. See judges 7:12 and Joel 1:4-6 vs 6 A nation has come against my land. That was the Seleucid (Syrian) empire of Antiochus in 2nd century BCE.

The locust invasion of Rev 9 symbolized the Arab caliphate from 632. The smoke from the abyss is islam. It darkens the true light and obliterates the sun. I have found an interesting article in august 1969 national geographic about a locust plague that hit africa in 1967_68. The migration of the desert locust was identical to the invasion of the islamic arab armies of 7th and 8th century. Well worth buying a copy if you can. In it was a quote from an Arab poet where the locusts said to mohammed, " we are the armies of allah"

[Sister]

Hi Sab

The 7 angels have not sounded yet.  It is future.

Once the Mark of the Beast is issued, the first angel will sound, and so forth.  This is the cup of wrath given to the world who refused to come out of Babylon.

The locusts in the 5th seal are devils.  They have been locked up since the flood.  God is going to let them loose to torment only those without the seal of God, them who have rejected all the prophecies, the truth, and our Lord Jesus, and took pleasure in unrighteousness.....all those who have received the Mark of the beast or who worshiped his image.

Revelation 9:4   And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
 

[Sab]

Hi sister, 

I have a different understanding of book of revelation than you. I see most of it fulfilled already and that the 5th trumpet was the attack against the 7 churches by the arab armies islam in 7th century and 6th trumpet was the attack by the turks from the 11th until the decline of the ottoman empire in 1918 (symbolized by the drying up of the euphrates in rev 16:12). The kings of the east that arose after the fall of the ottoman  empire are the arab nations - Iraq, Jordan,  Syria and the evil spirits that unite the world to gather them to armageddon is modern antisemitism.

Thus we are only waiting for the last bowl of wrath to be poured out on this world and the seventh trumpet which is the return of the Lord.

[BlindSeeker]

5 hours ago, Sab said:

Hi, I'm  new to this forum, but I've  been  a Christian  for about 38 years.

Ive been recently pondering the beast that was and is not and yet is.

The beast that was... one of the entities of Daniel 7

Is not... that eliminates Rome

And yet is... so it is Rome?

Now the beast had 10 horns, which had not yet received their authority (vs 15) and that also gives us a clue to when we should be looking for this beast, that is after the barbarian invasions. By comparing it to the leopard with 4 wings we see that there was a brief window in the 3rd century BCE after the death of Alexander and before the power struggle between the Seleucids and the Ptolemies when the leopard had 4 wings and so we also have a window of time when the Roman Empire had 10 horns. In verse 13 they have one mind which narrows it down even further as from the Reformation they were totally fragmented.

The beast came from the abyss (v8) compared to rev 13:1 where the beast rose from the sea. Is this significant? Otherwise there are obvious similaties - 10 horns and 7 heads.

(I want to post this now before my computer plays up and I lose what I've  typed)

First, those who know me are aware that I believe America is "the eighth that goes into destruction." That said, we need to recognize there are three beasts <therion> mentioned in Revelation. However, I'll start with the 2nd beast which rises up out of the sea...

Rev 13:1 - And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast <therion> rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon [each of] his heads the name of blasphemy (see Rev 17:3).

therion; a dangerous animal:--(venomous,

Rev 13:2 And the beast <therion> which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

It appears as the male distinction of “he, him, his” in scripture is assigned to nations and the predominately male rulers thereof. A simple review of Daniel 7 with the succession of beast and horn reveals a pattern of such. It is important to be attentive of the gender distinction, for in 17:3 we are introduced to “a woman” sitting on this beast, the “Mother of Harlot.”

 

Note: all the animal characteristics identify with those in Daniel.

 

Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast <therion>.

Notice, it is not “his HEAD,” but rather “ONE of his HEADS as it were wounded…” While it may seem that since the deadly wound was only to “one of his heads,” it would be the entity represented by that particular head that would be the object of the injury, it is stated that “his deadly wound was healed,” implying the beast itself, or the entity represented by the entire image of the beast. So much so, that “all the world wondered after THE BEAST” and not just the one head.

For clarity, I believe this was the attacked on Pearl Harbor. The Japanese were provoked through a series of calculated maneuvers into attacking Pearl Harbor to justify America’s entrance into WWII; which brought about the demise of the British Empire (the 7th), gave way for the rebirth of Israel, and catapulted America into a place of global supremacy being the first to develope and use nuclear weapons on another country... kinda like calling down fire from heaven on earth in the sight of men...

Rev 13:4 And they [all the world] worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast <therion>: and they worshipped the beast <therion> saying, Who is like unto the beast <therion>? who is able to make war with him?

The worshipping of the dragon is by way of their worshipping the beast. Similar to the how that sacrifice unto Idol was sacrifice unto devils.

Leviticus 17:7 - And they shall no more offer their sacrifices unto devils, after whom they have gone a whoring. This shall be a statute for ever unto them throughout their generations.

 Deuteronomy 32:17 - They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not.

 Psalm 106:37 - Yea, they sacrificed their sons and their daughters unto devils

1 Corinthians 10:20 - But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.

Revelation 9:20 - And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: 21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

Revelation 13:5 - And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies (see Rev. 17:3); and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Interestingly, President Franklin D. Roosevelt suddenly died nearly 3 ½ years after making this famous speech and did “not see when good cometh. I say nearly, because using the Julian calendar it was only 3 years, 4 months, 4 days excluding the end date. However, the bible reveals God calculates time differently, using the both the solar and the lunar cycles. One solar cycle was an approximate biblical year which was adjusted periodically with an extra month approximately 7 times during 19 solar cycles. The biblical months were 29 -30 days based upon the lunar cycle which fluctuates approximately every 29.5 days. Since it was a total of 1,221 days duration from President Roosevelt’s speech to his death we can simply divide that time and see it was a durations of 41.39 biblical months, or 42 months. Perhaps even more interesting is the timing of President Roosevelt’s death actually occurred on the New Moon of April 12, 1945.

 6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God (see Rev 17:3), to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

As this is still the referencing the seven-headed beast, this “he” would be the represented voice of the beast, or empire, upon its rising up out of the sea and standing upon the sand. That is “the person in office” at the time of its entrance into prophetic significance, for as noted above Franklin D. Roosevelt died nearly 3 ½ years after the attack on Pearl Harbor.

President Roosevelt’s speech after the Pearl Harbor attack:

“Yesterday, December 7, 1941-a date which will live in infamy-the United States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked by naval and air forces of the Empire of Japan... As Commander in Chief of the army and navy I have directed that all measures be taken for our defense. Always will we remember the character of the onslaught against us. No matter how long it may take us to overcome this premeditated invasion, the American people in their righteous might will win through to absolute victory... With confidence in our armed forces-with the unbounding determination of our people-we will gain the inevitable triumph – so help us God...”

Jeremiah 17:5 Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD. 6 For he shall be like the heath in the desert, and shall not see when good cometh; but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land and not inhabited.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

This is still referencing The Eighth Beast Empire being given ability to “make war with the saints, and to overcome them,” and surely as the worldliness of America is at enmity with God likewise it has been a constant assault upon His saints. Though the “overcome them” doubtless is a reference to the literal murder of the saints, it cannot be denied how many have been made lukewarm in America and will be vomited out of the mouth of the Lord. However, the blatant and aggressiveness of iniquity in America has become increasingly intolerant of God, His word and His saints. On June 28, 2006, President Obama publically proclaimed that America was no longer a “just” Christian nation, “Whatever we once were, we are no longer a Christian nation – at least, not just. We are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, a Buddhist nation, and a Hindu nation, and a nation of nonbelievers.”

Daniel 7:21 - I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them.

 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

The Greek word translated here “worship” means “to kiss, like a dog licking his master's hand; to fawn or crouch to, i.e. (literally or figuratively) prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to, adore):--worship. But we also know from Jesus stating that the time now is that the true worshippers of God must worship Him in spirit and in truth. That reveals there is a false and carnal worship, a prostrating oneself in homage not out of adoration, but out of selfish motives or even fear, like a dog crouching and timidly licking his master's hand,” as one might do in an attempt to save his life under fear of death. For surely this will come to pass for those who will not bow in submissive servitude before the beast.

 9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

Now, jump down a few verses…

Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast <therion> coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon <drakon>.

Up out of the earth, not up out of the sea as did the beast. This is a man, like Adam who was made from the dust of the earth. This may also be reference a position or office held by a succession of men, not unlike the Jewish position of “High Priest.”

NOTE: This makes a total of three beasts <therion> mentioned in Revelation thus far-

1.     The first was the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit;

Re 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Re 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

These two references are likely the same beast, as they are both referred to as ascending out of the bottomless pit. However, it is mentioned in conjunction with the latter reference that it was a scarlet colored beast.

Re 17:3 - So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet colored beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

Remembering that the beast <therion> is a dangerous animal, and the Greek word is used to describe “venomous, wild” beasts, the description can be said to fit that of the red dragon, that old serpent, the devil in Chapter 12.

Re 12:3 - And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

Re 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Also see notes on Rev. 17:8 for more on the “bottomless pit.”

2.     The second beast is the one that arises up out the sea, of which there is no reference of a scarlet color.

Re 13:1 - And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.  2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

This second beast shares familiarity with the dragon in that they both have seven heads and ten horns. Plus, as the scripture reveals, it is the great red dragon who promotes this second beast for he “gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.”

3.   The third beast, the one just referenced in verse 11, is the who comes up out of the earth. He too is connected to the great red dragon for, as the verse states, “he spake as a dragon.” Now, keeping in mind that the devil stated to Jesus…

Mt 4:8 - Again, the devil taketh Him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth Him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 9 And saith unto Him, All these things will I give Thee, if Thou wilt fall down and worship me.

Jesus did not refute the devils claim that he could “give” these things to Him, this it is clear that the devil, represented as the great red dragon, that old serpent, is the one who is the wicked power behind both beast number 2 and 3.

Rev 13:12 And he (that is, the second beast mentioned in this chapter) exerciseth all the power of the first beast <therion> (which was mentioned first in this same chapter) before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast <therion>, whose deadly wound was healed.

It is evident that this man is the governing authority over the Eighth Beast Empire.

Rev 13:13 And he (the second beast) doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the (the first) beast <therion>; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the (the first) beast <therion>, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

 

The Beast and The Bottomless Pit-

Rev 17:8 The beast <therion> that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Re 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

 Re 9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

 Re 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

 Re 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

 Re 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

 Re 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

 Re 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Deceives the Nations

Re 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and [even] Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Re 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

 Re 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

 Well, that's part of why I've have my conclusions and now live in Costa Rica...

TheEighthBeast.com

[Sab]

Abdicate

I can't say with any real conviction, although the one that fits most prophecies seems to be the ottomans.

When looking at the book of revelation i like to stay focused on the 7 churches as the book was written to them. They existed in the first century but where are they now? All swallowed up by the ottoman empire.

The turkish invasion was in two parts. What i have seen is that the Seljuk turkish empire was almost identical to the Seleucid empire of Antiochus and together the Seljuks and Ottomans fit the description of the king of the north in Daniel 11:40-45. While the description of the overflow of the king of the north in dan 11 mirrors that of the Assyrian overflow in Isaiah.

If the 8th is the Turkish empire it's  noteworthy that it was identical in area to one of the original 7 or the Seleucid empire which evolved from the Greek.

But if we are looking at 7 kings over which mystery babylon had dominion rather that the 7 empires that controlled jerusalem it's a whole other ball game. Firstly identifying mystery babylon with Rome comes up blank... however there were 7 kingdoms linked to byzantium/constantinople/istanbul. 

I joined this forum because over the past  few days I've had a niggling idea about the beast that i wanted to bounce off some other people... but my mind is fresher first thing in the morning than in evening and now I'm  struggling to shake off the day's frustrations. 

I think we need to look at all the clues as a whole. For example the ten kings receive their authority at one hour (or at the same hour?) as the beast.  When did that happen? Before we can answer that we have to identify the ten kings. I have yet to find a better solution to that than the germanic tribes that migrated into the roman empire in 4th and 5th centuries.

[Sab]

Blind seeker. That's a very long post. I have a couple of observations about some verses you brought up.

One is rev 11:7 the beast from the abyss will attack them etc.

Now rev 8:13 associates the three woes with the last three trumpets.

Rev 9:12 says the first woe is past; rev 11:14 says the second woe is past.

I hold to the historic interpretation that the 5th trumpet was symbolic of the rise of islam and the Arab expansion from 632 to about 750 and the sixth trumpet was a reference to the turkish invasion of Anatolia, the mid east and north africa. In which case the beast from the abyss appears during the second woe or the Turkish rule.

As both the first and second woes in that scheme of things are linked with islam i venture to guess that the third woe is too and we are probably seeing the opening phase of it now and if persecution under the ottomans was terrible this will probably be worse as people did not repent of their evil after the ottoman attacks. (rev 9:20-21)

[Sab]

Last daze: in 1 cor 15:52 we are told that the saints will be caught up at the last trumpet. Wouldnt that be the 7th?

Edited September 13, 2017 by Sab
Misspelled last daze name

[Last Daze]

4 hours ago, Sab said:

Last daze: in 1 cor 15:52 we are told that the saints will be caught up at the last trumpet. Wouldnt that be the 7th?

I believe that the seventh trumpet begins the day of the Lord, when Jesus takes His great power and begins to reign.  It is sounded by an angel.  The last trumpet is the trumpet of God, a trumpet that God sounds.

The sequence as I see it is that the seventh trumpet sounds and then Jesus leaves heaven, appears in the clouds, sounds the trumpet of God, and begins the days of restoration fulfilling Zechariah 9:14:

Then the Lord will appear over them,                        (in the clouds)
And His arrow will go forth like lightning;                (consistent with the seventh trumpet)
And the Lord God will blow the trumpet,                 (the last trumpet of God)
And will march in the storm winds of the south.       (beginning of restitution /  restoration)

The seventh trumpet (the last of that series) signals Jesus to leave heaven and sound the trumpet of God (the last trump).