Matthew 24 :15 and matthew 24 :27 are they of the same timeline?

[SINNERSAVED]

okay here is a question, for in matthew 24, 15 , as Jesus is telling His diciples of his coming back and what is the signs to look for and what is too happen,

 we have at verse 15 telling them that when you see the abomination of desolation, flee to Judea , and pray that it is not during Sabbath for there is a reason for this , so was Jesus talking about as it came to pass and the destruction of the temple , in 70 AD ? or coming future event ?

then you go down and start at verse 27 of chapter 24 also and it says that for as lightning cometh out of the east and shine to the west  so shall the coming of the son of man  be ? and then in 29 immediately after the tribulations the sun will turn to darkness etc, the coming of Jesus

so why are they people today saying that the first part is coming and to watch for, if it was already taken place in the past ? am I wrong to say that we have two different endings one at 70 ad, and the future end times to come in the same chapter, ?

so if anyone has some light to show on this that be great, thank you

[Dave Watchman]

1 hour ago, SINNERSAVED said:

okay here is a question, for in matthew 24, 15 , as Jesus is telling His diciples of his coming back and what is the signs to look for and what is too happen,

 we have at verse 15 telling them that when you see the abomination of desolation, flee to Judea , and pray that it is not during Sabbath for there is a reason for this , so was Jesus talking about as it came to pass and the destruction of the temple , in 70 AD ? or coming future event ?

then you go down and start at verse 27 of chapter 24 also and it says that for as lightning cometh out of the east and shine to the west  so shall the coming of the son of man  be ? and then in 29 immediately after the tribulations the sun will turn to darkness etc, the coming of Jesus

so why are they people today saying that the first part is coming and to watch for, if it was already taken place in the past ? am I wrong to say that we have two different endings one at 70 ad, and the future end times to come in the same chapter, ?

so if anyone has some light to show on this that be great, thank you

Great questions SINNERSAVED

There's a guy here who I haven't seen for awhile that I think has the answer. Or at least can shed light on your questions. He got me pointed in the right direction and then I went and thought that I had made the greatest discovery of all time.

Matthew 24 :15 and Matthew 24 :27 are of the same timeline. The Olivet Discourse is apocalyptic prophecy. It's talking about the time prior to and the actual coming of Jesus. But only Matthew 24/25 and Mark 13 were on the mount called Olivet. Luke 21 took place in the morning inside the temple in an area called the women's court.

Matthew 24 was in the evening, a Sabbath's day journey away on the mount of Olives. I think that the abomination of desolation is not the same thing as Jerusalem surrounded by armies. The AofD is for our time but we are not supposed to flee to Judea. Those who are in Judea should flee to the mountains. Head for the hills.

I like the du Tillet version that reads:

 "then let them which be in Judah flee unto the mountains"

 

Edited March 6, 2016 by Dave Watchman
I can.t spell even with a spell checker?

[OneLight]

In all honesty, read the full chapter.  Notice that it opens with Jesus foretelling the destruction of Jerusalem, followed by three questions, not one.

• Tell us, when will these things be?
• And what will be the sign of Your coming
• and of the end of the age?

Jesus, in the next 11 verses, paints a picture of what it will be like before the Great Tribulation period.  All points in those verses have to be true before the Abomination of Desolation can ever occur.  I count 16 specific descriptions, and not all could fit the 70 AD period.  What do you see?

[simplejeff]

30 minutes ago, Dave Watchman said:

I can.t spell even with a spell checker?

There's more words mis-spelled by the autobots every day TODAY than in a full year 60 years ago by human reporters.

((that's just a guesstimate))   for example:  "weather" shows up in context where "whether" is needed. many times a day.

[ARGOSY]

3 hours ago, SINNERSAVED said:

 

 we have at verse 15 telling them that when you see the abomination of desolation, flee to Judea , and pray that it is not during Sabbath for there is a reason for this , so was Jesus talking about as it came to pass and the destruction of the temple , in 70 AD ? or coming future event ?

then you go down and start at verse 27 of chapter 24 also and it says that for as lightning cometh out of the east and shine to the west  so shall the coming of the son of man  be ? and then in 29 immediately after the tribulations the sun will turn to darkness etc, the coming of Jesus

¹⁴ And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

¹⁵ “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’^[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— ¹⁶ then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains

 

The end is a 3.5 year period called the "great tribulation". First the gospel is preached to the whole world, then the end period starts with the abomination of Daniel.   Daniel mentions the abomination twice, once in Daniel 9:27 and again in Daniel 12. Both times involve a 3.5 year period from the abomination until the end of all things.   To apply Daniel's abomination to Matthew 24 we can see that there will be a 3.5 year period between the abomination and the second coming. None of this is hstorical, even though the wording is similar to some words in Luke 21 about the events surrounding 70AD.

[Floatingaxe]

All throughout scripture we find many prophecies that are dual---a near fulfillment and a far fulfillment. Jesus in this passage is speaking a dual prophecy.

[Dave Watchman]

4 hours ago, OneLight said:

What do you see?

I see it a bit different. I'm not the one to tell it so I'd rather not because I might do more harm than good.

Matthew 24 is a true apocalyptic prophecy. It has the same chronological architecture that is shared by Daniel and Revelation. When Jesus sits down on the mount of Olives and begins to speak it's like a faucet of end time prophecy is turned on and does not stop until He's finished.

He goes like this:

And Jesus answered them,

And they will lead

And you will hear

And kingdom against kingdom,

And there will be famines

And earthquakes

“Then they will

And put you to death,

And you will be hated

And then many will fall away

And hate one another. 

And many false prophets

And because lawlessness will be increased,

And this gospel of the kingdom

And then the end will come.

Remember He told that evil and adulterous "generation" in Matthew 12 that they would only have one sign? Look at all the signs in the Olivet. Do you think that it's the same "generation"?

Now take a look at Luke 21, it's written in the style of a Day of the Lord prophecy like Isaiah 13. Where the prophet starts off in one place of history and then will seem to peer down the millennia to the end of time and then shift back to ancient times. Luke 21 does this but in reverse. Luke starts off like Matthew does but Jesus stops at verse 12 for some reason "But before all this" and breaks the chronology found in Matthew and begins talking about the 1st century destruction of Jerusalem. Then in verse 25 He switches back to our end times again.

Luke 21:12-24 is clearly dealing with 1st century Jerusalem alone. Before and after these verses deals with our future, which is the first and last 1/3 of chapter 21. In a classic day of the Lord type architecture, which can't be read chronologically as an apocalyptic prophecy would.

Take a look at the last two specifications of the various items in the list and you should be able to recognize that Jerusalem surrounded by armies is not the same thing as the abomination of desolation spoken of by Jesus in Matthew 24. There are obvious parallels but it's clear in the Matthew account that the Day of the Lord has gone global:

Regional repercussions in Luke 21:

• Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains,
• and let those who are inside the city depart,
• and let not those who are out in the country enter it,
• for these are days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written.
• Alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days!
• For there will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people.
• They will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive among all nations, and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

World wide repercussions in Matthew 24:

• Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
• Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house.
• And let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak.
• And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days!
• Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath.
• For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be.
• And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.

When Luke 21 begins Jesus is sitting down inside of the temple in the woman's court surrounded on ground level by donation jars that are called the "treasury". (As Jesus looked up, he saw the rich putting their gifts into the temple treasury)

When Matthew 24 begins Jesus is walking away from the temple looking back at the outside of it on the start of His journey down the Kidron valley and up to where He will lodge for the evening on the mount called Olivet..(This remains a 21 minute uphill journey for fit individuals today.)

"And every day he was teaching in the temple, but at night he went out and lodged on the mount called Olivet.

"And early in the morning all the people came to him in the temple to hear him.

"But at night he went out and lodged on the mount called Olivet.

 

 

Edited March 7, 2016 by Dave Watchman
JUST FOR THE FUN OF IT

[SINNERSAVED]

okay  so lets take one of the verses and break it down, if Jesus said, when you see the abomination of desolation, flee into the mountains Judea, and hope that it is not in the Sabbath,  so I see this  clearly as past event already happened, for , when jesus was teaching and saying this, it was because the Sabbath day , they would shut the gates to the city and acknowledge the Sabbath, but this does not happen any more, so it is not a future event, ?

 but it states after tribulation then the son of man will come, and this is bring in, the end times events, so there is two different event times happening with in this , this is what I am saying , ?

[simplejeff]

It may be yet future.

There were / are other reasons , so important that the KING MESSIAH SAVIOR CREATOR YAHSHUA said to 

pray ((not hope))

Matthew 24:20 King James Version (KJV)

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

[WilliamL]

9 hours ago, SINNERSAVED said:

okay  so lets take one of the verses and break it down, if Jesus said, when you see the abomination of desolation, flee into the mountains Judea, and hope that it is not in the Sabbath,  so I see this  clearly as past event already happened, for , when jesus was teaching and saying this, it was because the Sabbath day , they would shut the gates to the city and acknowledge the Sabbath, but this does not happen any more, so it is not a future event, ?

The Abomination of Desolation comes only after the King of the North has militarily occupied Israel. Currently in Israel on the Sabbath, buses don't run and grocery stores are closed, etc. Who knows what Sabbath restrictions will come in the future, when Israel will quite likely be under some kind of marital law.