Pre trib rapture is fake

[n2thelight]

On 4/11/2016 at 1:25 PM, enoob57 said:

The beauty and logic of Pre-Trib position:

A. The Scriptures speak of imminent return-
1 Co 1:7; 16:22; Php 3:20; 4:5; 1 Th 1:9-10; Tit 2:13; Heb 9:28; Jude 21
No other view point allows for this sort of dialogue in The Scriptures!

B. The structure of Revelation-
Rev 1-3 speak of the church here...

Rv 4:1
4 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
KJV

Rev 4-19 no mention of church here and is again mentioned in Rev 22:16

Indicators of major Church component now in Heaven 'Elders'-
Rv 4:4,10; 5:5,6,8,11,14; 7:11,13; 11:16; 14:3; 19:4
being 12 in ref. means it is to be notced and placed in major considerations as prophetical...

The promise of exemption from devine wrath-
1 Th 1:9-10; 5:9; Rv 3:10-11
yet from Rev 4 thru Rev 19:11 is specific [(God's)+(wrath)] with vs. 11-21 second coming all the way to the earth!

C. Division in return of Christ by Scripture-

By comparing point by point in the following two passages, we can observe that both of the following two chapters are referring to the same event. Observe the perfect parallels below.

1 Thessalonians 4	1 Corinthians 15
4:16 - the Lord Himself shall come	15:23 - are Christ’s at His coming
4:14 - sleep	15:51 - sleep
4:16 - shout, voice, trump	15:52 - the trumpet shall sound
4:16 - dead in Christ shall rise first	15:52 - dead shall be raised

 

Now compare Matthew 24 with the above events using 1 Thessalonians since some erroneously teach that Matthew 24 is talking about the glorious second coming of Jesus, which they teach is a different event to the above chapters which they say refers to a secret rapture.

1 Thessalonians 4 and 5	Matthew 24
4:15 - coming (Parousia)	24:27 - coming (Parousia)
4:17 - clouds	24:30 - clouds
4:16 - shout, voice trump	24:31 - sound of a trumpet
4:17 - caught up together	24:31 - gather together
5:1 - times and seasons	24:36 - day or hour
5:2 - a thief	24:43 - a thief
5:3 - sudden destruction	24:39 - took them all away
5:6 - watch	24:42 - watch

 

As you can see, not only are these the same event and so parallel each other perfectly but are even in the same order. There are not two different aspects of the return of Jesus. There is only one second coming and the theory of a secret rapture with a second chance is just another deception of the enemy.

Matthew 24	1 Thessalonians 4	1 Corinthians 15
Jesus coming	Jesus coming	At His coming
Trumpet	Trumpet	Last trump
Angels gather saints	Dead saints raised	Dead saints raised
Angels gather saints	Living saints caught up	Living saints changed
Coming in the clouds	Coming in the clouds	Not mentioned

 

Why is the Second Coming important?

Belief in the return of Christ is important because it is exactly and clearly what the Word of God teaches. To doubt the reality of the second coming of Christ is to doubt the reliability and validity of God’s Word. Also, the return of Christ is important because He Himself promised it. If Jesus is wrong about His return, then how can we trust anything else that Jesus taught? The return of Christ is our hope and confidence that God is in control of all things and is faithful to His Word and His promises. “Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.” Titus 2:13.

When is the Second Coming?

Perhaps no event in the history of the world has been more anticipated than the second coming of Christ. Virtually every generation of believers, including the believers in the New Testament, have strongly believed that Jesus would return in their lifetime. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-2 says, “Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That you be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.” Some are even erroneously afraid that they have missed the return of Christ and there are others who doubt that the second coming will ever occur, “Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.” 2 Peter 3:3-4. Therefore we must avoid these two extremes: 1) Believing that the return of Jesus has already occurred, and 2) Believing that the return of Jesus will never occur.

Many theologians and Bible teachers have calculated when they figured the second coming of Jesus would be and every single one has been incorrect. The Bible declares, “But of that day and hour knows no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.” Matthew 24:36. And 1 Thessalonians 5:1-2 says, “But of the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I write unto you. 2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.”

The Bible describes several events which must occur before the second coming (Matthew 24:4-29; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 and Revelation chapters 6-18). We are to be ready and anticipate the return of Jesus and to have a Biblical understanding of it, but we are not to set dates and times. We are to live our lives as if it could happen any day and at any moment lest we be caught out not ready and our shame is seen as we are found naked. This means do not be caught out living in sin and to be ready ALL the time as we know not the day or hour of which our Lord and Saviour will return. Revelation 16:15 says, “Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.” Are you ready for the return of Christ?

http://www.the-second-coming.org/

[enoob57]

2 hours ago, n2thelight said:

By comparing point by point in the following two passages, we can observe that both of the following two chapters are referring to the same event. Observe the perfect parallels below.

1 Thessalonians 4	1 Corinthians 15
4:16 - the Lord Himself shall come	15:23 - are Christ’s at His coming
4:14 - sleep	15:51 - sleep
4:16 - shout, voice, trump	15:52 - the trumpet shall sound
4:16 - dead in Christ shall rise first	15:52 - dead shall be raised

 

Now compare Matthew 24 with the above events using 1 Thessalonians since some erroneously teach that Matthew 24 is talking about the glorious second coming of Jesus, which they teach is a different event to the above chapters which they say refers to a secret rapture.

1 Thessalonians 4 and 5	Matthew 24
4:15 - coming (Parousia)	24:27 - coming (Parousia)
4:17 - clouds	24:30 - clouds
4:16 - shout, voice trump	24:31 - sound of a trumpet
4:17 - caught up together	24:31 - gather together
5:1 - times and seasons	24:36 - day or hour
5:2 - a thief	24:43 - a thief
5:3 - sudden destruction	24:39 - took them all away
5:6 - watch	24:42 - watch

 

As you can see, not only are these the same event and so parallel each other perfectly but are even in the same order. There are not two different aspects of the return of Jesus. There is only one second coming and the theory of a secret rapture with a second chance is just another deception of the enemy.

Matthew 24	1 Thessalonians 4	1 Corinthians 15
Jesus coming	Jesus coming	At His coming
Trumpet	Trumpet	Last trump
Angels gather saints	Dead saints raised	Dead saints raised
Angels gather saints	Living saints caught up	Living saints changed
Coming in the clouds	Coming in the clouds	Not mentioned

 

Why is the Second Coming important?

Belief in the return of Christ is important because it is exactly and clearly what the Word of God teaches. To doubt the reality of the second coming of Christ is to doubt the reliability and validity of God’s Word. Also, the return of Christ is important because He Himself promised it. If Jesus is wrong about His return, then how can we trust anything else that Jesus taught? The return of Christ is our hope and confidence that God is in control of all things and is faithful to His Word and His promises. “Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.” Titus 2:13.

When is the Second Coming?

Perhaps no event in the history of the world has been more anticipated than the second coming of Christ. Virtually every generation of believers, including the believers in the New Testament, have strongly believed that Jesus would return in their lifetime. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-2 says, “Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That you be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.” Some are even erroneously afraid that they have missed the return of Christ and there are others who doubt that the second coming will ever occur, “Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.” 2 Peter 3:3-4. Therefore we must avoid these two extremes: 1) Believing that the return of Jesus has already occurred, and 2) Believing that the return of Jesus will never occur.

Many theologians and Bible teachers have calculated when they figured the second coming of Jesus would be and every single one has been incorrect. The Bible declares, “But of that day and hour knows no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.” Matthew 24:36. And 1 Thessalonians 5:1-2 says, “But of the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I write unto you. 2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.”

The Bible describes several events which must occur before the second coming (Matthew 24:4-29; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 and Revelation chapters 6-18). We are to be ready and anticipate the return of Jesus and to have a Biblical understanding of it, but we are not to set dates and times. We are to live our lives as if it could happen any day and at any moment lest we be caught out not ready and our shame is seen as we are found naked. This means do not be caught out living in sin and to be ready ALL the time as we know not the day or hour of which our Lord and Saviour will return. Revelation 16:15 says, “Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.” Are you ready for the return of Christ?

http://www.the-second-coming.org/

you don't need to quote if you do not address the quoted material but instead are just trying to support your structure of belief!  Love, Steven

[n2thelight]

16 hours ago, enoob57 said:

you don't need to quote if you do not address the quoted material but instead are just trying to support your structure of belief!  Love, Steven

It was'nt a need,it was what I wanted ...

[enoob57]

5 hours ago, n2thelight said:

It was'nt a need,it was what I wanted ...

If I were you I would want to fill myself the doing of useful things and not the useless ones  

[n2thelight]

3 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

If I were you I would want to fill myself the doing of useful things and not the useless ones  

You're not me so don't worry about me,I'm good,get your own house in order.....

 

Best thing you can do is not respond ....

[enoob57]

1 minute ago, n2thelight said:

You're not me so don't worry about me,I'm good,get your own house in order.....

 

Best thing you can do is not respond ....

I'm thinking your right... God's blessings... Love, Steven