Understanding the Final One Seven

[Revelation Man]

 

12 hours ago, ghtan said:

Atonement has already been accomplished. Hebrews 2:17 says Jesus made atonement for the sins of the people and then Heb 10:12 says Jesus offered for all time one sacrifice for sin. AD70 was not the time of atonement of Israel's sin; the cross was.

So, if you do not accept Jesus are you going to heaven or hell ? Atonement for sins is a two way street, the sacrifice has to be made, and we have to accept the atonement, else how can our sins be washed away ? Is Israel still in their sins or not ? Yes, because of UNBELIEF.

All Six of these things MUST HAPPEN, before the Decree of Daniels 70 WEEKS/SEVENS Prophecy comes to and end, MUST HAPPEN.

²⁴ Seventy weeks^[d] are decreed
about your people and your holy city—
to bring the rebellion to an end,
to put a stop to sin,
to wipe away iniquity,
to bring in everlasting righteousness,
to seal up vision and prophecy,
and to anoint the most holy place.

The revolt against God must end, Israel (98 percent, do not believe Jesus is the Messiah,) hence they are YET in Revolt. Israel STILL Sins, by the time this last week is upon us, Israel will not be sinning daily sins, because they will be in the "Fathers Barn" as the Wheat Harvest. How can Israel wipe away SIN until they accept Jesus as their Messiah ? Atonement CAN NOT be made until the sins are actually atoned, yes Jesus made atonement, but we have to accept it, God forces nothing upon us, hence atonement is not made until the sins are under the blood of Jesus. Only Jesus can bring in everlasting Righteousness, we know we are not living in that now, hence it is FUTURE.  All prophecy is not over, there s no doubt about that. And Jesus will be anointed King of Kings and Lord of Lords or else this is the anointing of the Temple. There is no Temple yet. And Jesus is not in his millennial reign yet.

 

Long story short, Israels sins will not be forgiven until they Accept Jesus as their Messiah, during the 70th Week of Daniel's decree/prophecy.

Edited July 19, 2016 by Revelation Man

[ghtan]

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

 

So, if you do not accept Jesus are you going to heaven or hell ? Atonement for sins is a two way street, the sacrifice has to be made, and we have to accept the atonement, else how can our sins be washed away ? Is Israel still in their sins or not ? Yes, because of UNBELIEF.

All Six of these things MUST HAPPEN, before the Decree of Daniels 70 WEEKS/SEVENS Prophecy comes to and end, MUST HAPPEN.

²⁴ Seventy weeks^[d] are decreed
about your people and your holy city—
to bring the rebellion to an end,
to put a stop to sin,
to wipe away iniquity,
to bring in everlasting righteousness,
to seal up vision and prophecy,
and to anoint the most holy place.

The revolt against God must end, Israel (98 percent, do not believe Jesus is the Messiah,) hence they are YET in Revolt. Israel STILL Sins, by the time this last week is upon us, Israel will not be sinning daily sins, because they will be in the "Fathers Barn" as the Wheat Harvest. How can Israel wipe away SIN until the accept Jesus as their Messiah ? Atonement CAN NOT be made until the sins are actually atoned, yes Jesus made atonement, but we have to accept it, God forces nothing upon us, hence atonement is not made until the sins are under the blood of Jesus. Only Jesus can bring in everlasting Righteousness, we know we are not living in that now, hence it is FUTURE.  All prophecy is not over, there s no doubt about that. And Jesus will be anointed King of Kings and Lord of Lords or else this is the anointing of the Temple. There is no Temple yet. And Jesus is not in his millennial reign yet.

 

Long story short, Israels sins will not be forgiven until the Accept Jesus as their Messiah, during the 70th Week of Daniel's decree/prophecy.

Jesus atoned for sins once for all on the cross. When we believe in him, we receive forgiveness for our sins. The latter requires the former having been accomplished, i.e. they are not the same thing. Do you know any verse that says our sins are atoned for at the point we believe?

[Montana Marv]

5 hours ago, ghtan said:

Jesus atoned for sins once for all on the cross. When we believe in him, we receive forgiveness for our sins. The latter requires the former having been accomplished, i.e. they are not the same thing. Do you know any verse that says our sins are atoned for at the point we believe?

1 John 1:9 - If WE confess OUR sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.  Israel has yet to confess and ask for forgiveness.  They are still under the Mosaic Law;  We are under Grace.  Once the transformation from the Law to Grace is accomplished, then one becomes saved.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Edited July 19, 2016 by Montana Marv
reword content

[Revelation Man]

7 hours ago, ghtan said:

Jesus atoned for sins once for all on the cross. When we believe in him, we receive forgiveness for our sins. The latter requires the former having been accomplished, i.e. they are not the same thing. Do you know any verse that says our sins are atoned for at the point we believe?

That is where you get crossed up. What does the Decree of Daniel state ? It states that Israel must do these things. Not Christ.

²⁴ Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

 

Reconciliation means Israel has to reconcile to God, or ACCEPT the Atonement Jesus made for them. I call it atonement, because that is ultimately what happens to all of us when we accept Jesus, but it is Israel who has to Reconcile for their sins, they have not done this, so this has not happened, hence it was not 70 AD.  We have to be realists, Daniel stated all of these things must happen before these prophecies will be fulfilled, and it has to happen during these Seventy Sevens. 

None of these things have happened yet.

 

[ghtan]

13 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

1 John 1:9 - If WE confess OUR sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.  Israel has yet to confess and ask for forgiveness.  They are still under the Mosaic Law;  We are under Grace.  Once the transformation from the Law to Grace is accomplished, then one becomes saved.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Once again, atonement for sin and receiving forgiveness are two different events. The former has already been done once for all by Jesus, and Hebrews 10 clearly says. When the word atone/atonement occurs in the NT, the subject is always God/Jesus, not to us.

[ghtan]

11 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

That is where you get crossed up. What does the Decree of Daniel state ? It states that Israel must do these things. Not Christ.

²⁴ Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

 

Reconciliation means Israel has to reconcile to God, or ACCEPT the Atonement Jesus made for them. I call it atonement, because that is ultimately what happens to all of us when we accept Jesus, but it is Israel who has to Reconcile for their sins, they have not done this, so this has not happened, hence it was not 70 AD.  We have to be realists, Daniel stated all of these things must happen before these prophecies will be fulfilled, and it has to happen during these Seventy Sevens. 

None of these things have happened yet.

 

We accept forgiveness, not atonement. I take it that since you did not come back with a scripture that says our sins are atoned for when we believe, you could not find one. But we do have Hebrews 10. We should stick to what we have and not what we do not.

Anyway, we could argue till the cows come home and probably not come to an agreement on Dan 9:24. At the end of the day, what decides whether Dan 9:27 refers to the end time  is whether Jesus was talking about the end time when he quoted the verse in Matt 24. He cannot be wrong. 

Which brings us back to the reason I joined this thread i.e. to point out that the Mt 24:21 'distress that will never be equaled' logically cannot refer to the end time because with modern warfare the suffering during a future battle for Jerusalem cannot be worse than what the residents in AD70 experienced as described by Josephus.

[Revelation Man]

15 minutes ago, ghtan said:

We accept forgiveness, not atonement. I take it that since you did not come back with a scripture that says our sins are atoned for when we believe, you could not find one. But we do have Hebrews 10. We should stick to what we have and not what we do not.

Anyway, we could argue till the cows come home and probably not come to an agreement on Dan 9:24. At the end of the day, what decides whether Dan 9:27 refers to the end time  is whether Jesus was talking about the end time when he quoted the verse in Matt 24. He cannot be wrong. 

Which brings us back to the reason I joined this thread i.e. to point out that the Mt 24:21 'distress that will never be equaled' logically cannot refer to the end time because with modern warfare the suffering during a future battle for Jerusalem cannot be worse than what the residents in AD70 experienced as described by Josephus.

I been shopping and saw a movie, I don't need a scripture, I know what atonement is. Daniels 70 Week decree said reconciliation, but that is called atonement also. I understand exactly what it means, it means the Church age ends, and Jacobs Trouble begins. 2 Billion people are killed during the Tribulation. 70 AD doesn't ft.  Is Israel  a Christian Nation ? Have they accepted their Messiah ? Then the 70th Week has no com to pass.

[Montana Marv]

9 hours ago, ghtan said:

Which brings us back to the reason I joined this thread i.e. to point out that the Mt 24:21 'distress that will never be equaled' logically cannot refer to the end time because with modern warfare the suffering during a future battle for Jerusalem cannot be worse than what the residents in AD70 experienced as described by Josephus.

What about the Holocaust in the 1940's.  Much more severe than what happened in 70 AD. Thousands died. 70 AD was by choice, they stayed in Jerusalem, Starvation by choice.  The Holocaust, not by their choice.  Millions died. They were corralled like cattle and many slaughtered.  Forced starvation.  History dictates 70 AD was mild compared to the 1940's.  And yet something even more severe will happen to Israel in our future.  When you see standing the A/D,  RUN; this could not have happened in 70 AD where Jerusalem was surrounded, no place to run to.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Revelation Man]

5 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

What about the Holocaust in the 1940's.  Much more severe than what happened in 70 AD. Thousands died. 70 AD was by choice, they stayed in Jerusalem, Starvation by choice.  The Holocaust, not by their choice.  Millions died. They were corralled like cattle and many slaughtered.  Forced starvation.  History dictates 70 AD was mild compared to the 1940's.  And yet something even more severe will happen to Israel in our future.  When you see standing the A/D,  RUN; this could not have happened in 70 AD where Jerusalem was surrounded, no place to run to.

In Christ

Montana Marv

People try to fit the scriptures to their beliefs, it seems this goes on far too much. I went 30 years (until the last 5 years) not saying when the Rapture was because no matter what I read or heard, until the Holy Spirit reveals something to me, I do not accept it as fact. (I used to) Then one day, the Holy Spirit says, HEY RON, you see Revelation 19 here ? It shows that the Church is in Heaven during the Tribulation, now read the and search the facts out, and you will understand the truth. Sure enough, every fact fell into place. I try to stay open to the spirit, I used to jump on ideas, like the England and USA Armstrong stuff, then I figured out, there are a lot of people out there that are just flat out wrong on things, I must trust God and not men.

 

 

[ghtan]

13 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

What about the Holocaust in the 1940's.  Much more severe than what happened in 70 AD. Thousands died. 70 AD was by choice, they stayed in Jerusalem, Starvation by choice.  The Holocaust, not by their choice.  Millions died. They were corralled like cattle and many slaughtered.  Forced starvation.  History dictates 70 AD was mild compared to the 1940's.  And yet something even more severe will happen to Israel in our future.  When you see standing the A/D,  RUN; this could not have happened in 70 AD where Jerusalem was surrounded, no place to run to.

In Christ

Montana Marv

I think numbers is not what counts. But if you think so, when would the population of Jerusalem become so large that the number of Jews to be killed in a battle for the city would exceed the millions that died in the holocaust? Not for a long, long time. In that case, we should not expect the tribulation anytime soon. Because if the tribulation happens soon, it still would not be the worst ever disaster for the Jews since the holocaust would have set the bar.