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Understanding the Final One Seven


Montana Marv

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8 minutes ago, ghtan said:

I think numbers is not what counts. But if you think so, when would the population of Jerusalem become so large that the number of Jews to be killed in a battle for the city would exceed the millions that died in the holocaust? Not for a long, long time. In that case, we should not expect the tribulation anytime soon. Because if the tribulation happens soon, it still would not be the worst ever disaster for the Jews since the holocaust would have set the bar.

The Holocaust has set the Bar.  The time of Jacobs Trouble will be much greater than the Holocaust.  Zech  13:8 and 9 say that 2/3's of Israel will be struck down.

In Christ

Montana Marv

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2 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

The Holocaust has set the Bar.  The time of Jacobs Trouble will be much greater than the Holocaust.  Zech  13:8 and 9 say that 2/3's of Israel will be struck down.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Does Zech 13:8-9 refer to the end time? Why then did Jesus quote 13:7 in relation to his own arrest (Mk 14:27)? Again, he cannot be wrong. Could be 13:8-9 was fulfilled in AD70.

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10 hours ago, ghtan said:

Does Zech 13:8-9 refer to the end time? Why then did Jesus quote 13:7 in relation to his own arrest (Mk 14:27)? Again, he cannot be wrong. Could be 13:8-9 was fulfilled in AD70.

Zech 13:8 and 9 could not have been fulfilled in 70 AD.  Because the 1/3 who are left are refined.  They will call on my name and I will answer them, I will say they are my people, and they will say, The Lord is our God.  This never happened in or around 70 AD.  Read through Zech. Especially note all the "On that Day"'s.

Many say that Titus set up the A/D in the Temple area.  This would be impossible timing.  The siege took over 3 years, then Jerusalem fell.  So all the carnage took place before the so called 70 AD  A/D.  I don't think that anyone would have been on their roof tops at that time or in their fields at that time.  The countryside was filled with Roman soldiers.  BTW, after 70 AD, the remainder of the Jews were dragged off into captivity.  They never corporately have accepted Jesus as their Messiah.  Yet during the Mill. the do accept their Messiah.  Kind of falls in line with Dan 9:24 and when Israel will benefit from the six tasks, thus fulfilling the 70th Week as Prophesied. 

In Christ

Montana Marv

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10 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

Zech 13:8 and 9 could not have been fulfilled in 70 AD.  Because the 1/3 who are left are refined.  They will call on my name and I will answer them, I will say they are my people, and they will say, The Lord is our God.  This never happened in or around 70 AD.  Read through Zech. Especially note all the "On that Day"'s.

Many say that Titus set up the A/D in the Temple area.  This would be impossible timing.  The siege took over 3 years, then Jerusalem fell.  So all the carnage took place before the so called 70 AD  A/D.  I don't think that anyone would have been on their roof tops at that time or in their fields at that time.  The countryside was filled with Roman soldiers.  BTW, after 70 AD, the remainder of the Jews were dragged off into captivity.  They never corporately have accepted Jesus as their Messiah.  Yet during the Mill. the do accept their Messiah.  Kind of falls in line with Dan 9:24 and when Israel will benefit from the six tasks, thus fulfilling the 70th Week as Prophesied. 

In Christ

Montana Marv

Presumably you would say 13:1-6 also relate to the end time. Then if v 8-9 is also end time, it means only v 7 in between belongs to Jesus’ first coming. That makes little sense. More likely, verses 7-9 belong together since NIV shows they are poetry whereas the surrounding verses are prose. I find it easier to read v 9 to mean the one-third that survived AD70 were dispersed so that they would be refined and call on the Lord.

As for the A/D, a comparison with Luke 21:20 shows that the reference is to AD70.

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11 hours ago, ghtan said:

I find it easier to read v 9 to mean the one-third that survived AD70 were dispersed so that they would be refined and call on the Lord

This has never happened.  On that day, living water will out from Jerusalem.  Zech 7:7,8 - This is what the LORD Almighty says; I will save my people from the countries of the east and the west.  I will bring them back to live in Jerusalem; they will be my people, and I will be faithful and righteous to them as their God.  Zech 9:16 - The LORD their God will save them on that day as the flock of his people.  They will sparkle in his land like jewels in a crown.

Wow, and God saved them on that day in or around 70AD.  They sparkled like jewels in a crown at that time.

Zech 13:1 - On that day a fountain will be opened to the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, to cleanse the from sin and impurity.

Israel is converted on "That Day"  Not in or around 70 AD.

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

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12 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

This has never happened.  On that day, living water will out from Jerusalem.  Zech 7:7,8 - This is what the LORD Almighty says; I will save my people from the countries of the east and the west.  I will bring them back to live in Jerusalem; they will be my people, and I will be faithful and righteous to them as their God.  Zech 9:16 - The LORD their God will save them on that day as the flock of his people.  They will sparkle in his land like jewels in a crown.

Wow, and God saved them on that day in or around 70AD.  They sparkled like jewels in a crown at that time.

Zech 13:1 - On that day a fountain will be opened to the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, to cleanse the from sin and impurity.

Israel is converted on "That Day"  Not in or around 70 AD.

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

You still have not said how you would fit 13:7 into your scheme. That verse is next to 13:8 whereas the verses you quote are farther away. The immediate context is more relevant than the wider context. 

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2 hours ago, ghtan said:

You still have not said how you would fit 13:7 into your scheme. That verse is next to 13:8 whereas the verses you quote are farther away. The immediate context is more relevant than the wider context. 

I have no scheme.  Just the Word of God.  Dan 9:24 --  70 - Sevens have been established for your people (Israel) and your holy city (Jerusalem) to: Finish Transgression, to put an End to Sin, to Atone for Wickedness, to bring in Everlasting Righteousness, to Seal up Vision and Prophecy, and to Anoint the most Holy.

When has Israel benefited from or accomplished these six tasks.  Answer; at the end of the Last One Seven.  And all this according to Prophecy.

In Christ

Montana Marv

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11 hours ago, ghtan said:

You still have not said how you would fit 13:7 into your scheme. That verse is next to 13:8 whereas the verses you quote are farther away. The immediate context is more relevant than the wider context. 

Zechriah 13:7 is not linearly attached to 13:1-6.
It is a poetic prophecy by itself.
The end of which, in verse 9 is in my opinion, connected to the start of verse 1.

Most Old Testament prophets did not have long, linear narratives, but bits and snatches, like Zechariah does with his pronouncements: "In that day..."
"In that day..." does not mean everything which happens 'in that day' happens on the same day.
It is more of a declaration, an idiom of speech, that 'this will happen' - rather than specify a specific day.

Zechariah has a higher percentage of end-time prophecies than any other prophet recognized by the Jews that I know.  
(Daniel is not recognized by the Jews as a prophet - his book is relegated to poetry in the Tanach.)
Zechariah has many valuable insights - which I use - but I cannot use his book as a fundamental structure with which to build an inherent eschatology because he skips back and forth so much.

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13 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

(Daniel is not recognized by the Jews as a prophet - his book is relegated to poetry in the Tanach.)

Perhaps the Jews understand that most of the prophecies in Daniel have already been fulfilled, e.g. the AOD?

13 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

Zechariah has many valuable insights - which I use - but I cannot use his book as a fundamental structure with which to build an inherent eschatology because he skips back and forth so much.

Yes Zech does that a lot, which is why he can easily be talking about the end time in 13:1-6 and then skip back to AD70 in v 7-9, IMO. 

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1 hour ago, ghtan said:

Perhaps the Jews understand that most of the prophecies in Daniel have already been fulfilled, e.g. the AOD?

Ah, no.  They don't regard him as a prophet because he was not in the land of Israel when he wrote down his visions and visitations.

And I'm not going to entertain any Preterist notion of A.D. 70 being such a cataclysmic event that it makes the highlight reel of the seventy 'sevens'.  The only point about having the destruction of the city and the sanctuary in what Gabriel said, was to point to the source of the person who is the central actor in the one 'seven', the often-referred to anti-Christ, who plays such a pivotal role in bringing about the end-times.

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