Understanding the Final One Seven

[Marcus O'Reillius]

11 hours ago, ghtan said:

Are you making things up as you go along? Where in Ezekiel 1 does it say Ezekiel was a priest IN ISRAEL? Certainly not in 1:2 as you claim.

Actually, I am a very poor student of Jewish history vis-a-vis the historical section of the Old Testament.  All the jumbled names that I tend to gloss over and forget, and the stupid, petty infighting get all jumbled.  To tell the truth, I never had associated Ezekiel with Nebuchadnezzar before and the initial assault upon Jerusalem and having a portion led into captivity, but after you pointed this out - I started to study it.  The first place I go is an established commentary - the Expositor's Bible Commentary, because it is not the work of one man, which greatly limits the discernment thereof of any opinion rendered because no one is there to correct and fill in the information one person (like myself) can provide in way of commentary (and opinion).

That said - I will have to change my opinion on why Daniel is excluded as not being relegated to simply being in exile at the time.  I will have to do more study into the work of real scholars who have come before us in order to maintain an opinion on why Daniel is not included and not go on a single opinion I was given so long ago that I've forgotten who first taught the reason I opined to me.

Now as to Ezekiel - YES - he was a priest.  NO - it is not stated in 1:2, but comes with the scholarly dissertation found in the Expositor's Bible Commentary:

Text and Exposition
I. Ezekiel's Commission (1:1- 3:27)
A. The Vision of God's Glory (1:1- 28)
1. The setting of the vision (1:1- 3)

Ezekiel saw this vision "by the Kebar River in the land of the Babylonians" (v. 3). The river Kebar, a navigable canal, flowed southeast from the city of Babylon (see Introduction:Place of Origin and Destination).
Ezekiel was the stated recipient of the vision (v. 3). He was a priest and the son of Buzi. Nothing is known about Buzi, though as Ezekiel's father he would also have been a priest. The notation of Ezekiel's priesthood is significant. He would have been well acquainted with the Mosaic covenant and the priestly functions of the temple, both of which pervade the entire message of this book. Ezekiel was able to describe clearly the glory of God in the temple and the temple functions. He also was prepared to evaluate accurately the rebellion of his people against the explicit commands of the law, which was the basis for the Lord's judgments that Ezekiel announced. Moreover, this priestly background enabled Ezekiel to understand the millennial temple vision concluding the entire prophecy.

[Serving]

10 hours ago, ghtan said:

Hi Serving,

Nice to meet someone who share similar views. Interesting the way you brought in Mt 23; did not notice that before. As for the end time, are you thinking that Israel would be tricked into letting a foreign ARMY into its territory? Or do they come in in a different guise? Is there scripture that leads you to that belief?

Hi ghtan,

From what i understand, Israel's leaders are "in" on the "plan" .. THEY actually let those armies in thinking they are safe due to their scheming with those "allies" armies that they let in .. they ALL have dark schemes up their sleeves (both sides) BUT those of Israel's leaders that made the pact with those "allies" don't realise that those "allies" have an entirely different plan than what Israel signed up for (which is what I meant by what i said earlier as in "tricked") .. and that other plan Israel is unaware of is they are to be conquered instead.

This has NEVER happened in history, so it is future :

Isaiah 28:14-19

14 Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.(the leaders in Israel)
 

15 Because ye have said (those leaders in Israel), We have made a covenant with death (and WHO is the pale horse known as? .. yep .. DEATH .. this is the false prophet's army coming into Israel), and with hell are we at agreement (and what follows the pale horse called DEATH .. yep .. HELL); when the overflowing scourge shall pass through (notice their prior knowledge of the "attack" .. notice PASS THROUGH), it shall not come unto us (see how they think they are safe because of their agreement): for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves: (see how they, those leaders in Israel are in on it too, but it all goes "south", they obviously planned for those armies to PASS THROUGH to "attack" somebody else (probably Egypt) and likely planned for some " accident"  to befall the dome of the rock when they PASSED THROUGH so they could start their 3rd temple you see)

16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
 

17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place. (God is allowing Israel to be conquered because of their LIES)
 

18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand;(because they will be double crossed) when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it. (so God Himself lets Israel to be trodden down and double crossed since He has already declared it so long ago)
 

19 From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.

I believe Israel's leaders don't dare destroy the dome of the rock to make way for their 3rd temple, so they scheme up a plan for this army to do it for them .. which is WHY they let the armies in as I mentioned above.. for a convenient "accident" to befall the dome no doubt .. but as you see above, those armies double cross them instead .. I'm pretty certain it has to do with making way for the 3rd temple .. the whole reason behind the "scheme", but unbeknown to Israel,  their "allies" want that temple for themselves too, for the false prophet to rule from, hence the double cross.

Serving.

Edited July 25, 2016 by Serving

[ghtan]

12 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

Actually, I am a very poor student of Jewish history vis-a-vis the historical section of the Old Testament.  All the jumbled names that I tend to gloss over and forget, and the stupid, petty infighting get all jumbled.  To tell the truth, I never had associated Ezekiel with Nebuchadnezzar before and the initial assault upon Jerusalem and having a portion led into captivity, but after you pointed this out - I started to study it.  The first place I go is an established commentary - the Expositor's Bible Commentary, because it is not the work of one man, which greatly limits the discernment thereof of any opinion rendered because no one is there to correct and fill in the information one person (like myself) can provide in way of commentary (and opinion).

That said - I will have to change my opinion on why Daniel is excluded as not being relegated to simply being in exile at the time.  I will have to do more study into the work of real scholars who have come before us in order to maintain an opinion on why Daniel is not included and not go on a single opinion I was given so long ago that I've forgotten who first taught the reason I opined to me.

Now as to Ezekiel - YES - he was a priest.  NO - it is not stated in 1:2, but comes with the scholarly dissertation found in the Expositor's Bible Commentary:

Text and Exposition
I. Ezekiel's Commission (1:1- 3:27)
A. The Vision of God's Glory (1:1- 28)
1. The setting of the vision (1:1- 3)

Ezekiel saw this vision "by the Kebar River in the land of the Babylonians" (v. 3). The river Kebar, a navigable canal, flowed southeast from the city of Babylon (see Introduction:Place of Origin and Destination).
Ezekiel was the stated recipient of the vision (v. 3). He was a priest and the son of Buzi. Nothing is known about Buzi, though as Ezekiel's father he would also have been a priest. The notation of Ezekiel's priesthood is significant. He would have been well acquainted with the Mosaic covenant and the priestly functions of the temple, both of which pervade the entire message of this book. Ezekiel was able to describe clearly the glory of God in the temple and the temple functions. He also was prepared to evaluate accurately the rebellion of his people against the explicit commands of the law, which was the basis for the Lord's judgments that Ezekiel announced. Moreover, this priestly background enabled Ezekiel to understand the millennial temple vision concluding the entire prophecy.

Glad we sorted that out. For a moment, I thought my eyes were playing tricks on me as I read Ezekiel 1. I do not doubt Ezekiel was a priest - after all, it says so in the text. But he was in exile. If you find a better reason why Daniel is not numbered among the prophets in the Jewish bible, let me know. I would be interested.

[ghtan]

5 hours ago, Serving said:

Hi ghtan,

From what i understand, Israel's leaders are "in" on the "plan" .. THEY actually let those armies in thinking they are safe due to their scheming with those "allies" armies that they let in .. they ALL have dark schemes up their sleeves (both sides) BUT those of Israel's leaders that made the pact with those "allies" don't realise that those "allies" have an entirely different plan than what Israel signed up for (which is what I meant by what i said earlier as in "tricked") .. and that other plan Israel is unaware of is they are to be conquered instead.

This has NEVER happened in history, so it is future :

Isaiah 28:14-19

14 Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.(the leaders in Israel)
 

15 Because ye have said (those leaders in Israel), We have made a covenant with death (and WHO is the pale horse known as? .. yep .. DEATH .. this is the false prophet's army coming into Israel), and with hell are we at agreement (and what follows the pale horse called DEATH .. yep .. HELL); when the overflowing scourge shall pass through (notice their prior knowledge of the "attack" .. notice PASS THROUGH), it shall not come unto us (see how they think they are safe because of their agreement): for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves: (see how they, those leaders in Israel are in on it too, but it all goes "south", they obviously planned for those armies to PASS THROUGH to "attack" somebody else (probably Egypt) and likely planned for some " accident"  to befall the dome of the rock when they PASSED THROUGH so they could start their 3rd temple you see)

16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
 

17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place. (God is allowing Israel to be conquered because of their LIES)
 

18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand;(because they will be double crossed) when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it. (so God Himself lets Israel to be trodden down and double crossed since He has already declared it so long ago)
 

19 From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.

I believe Israel's leaders don't dare destroy the dome of the rock to make way for their 3rd temple, so they scheme up a plan for this army to do it for them .. which is WHY they let the armies in as I mentioned above.. for a convenient "accident" to befall the dome no doubt .. but as you see above, those armies double cross them instead .. I'm pretty certain it has to do with making way for the 3rd temple .. the whole reason behind the "scheme", but unbeknown to Israel,  their "allies" want that temple for themselves too, for the false prophet to rule from, hence the double cross.

Serving.

Hmm...might you be reading too much into the text of Is 28? Verse 16 is used in the NT in reference to Jesus; how would it fit into your flow of thought for the surrounding verses?

[Serving]

On 26/07/2016 at 9:29 AM, ghtan said:

Hmm...might you be reading too much into the text of Is 28? Verse 16 is used in the NT in reference to Jesus; how would it fit into your flow of thought for the surrounding verses?

God often slips in statements/declarations within His prophecies that are not relative to the overall timing of said prophecies but are instead references. 

All we need do is look at the circumstances within that prophecy .. that is, never before have the leaders of Israel made a pact with a foreign army to physically come into their land itself, where the leaders believe they will be immune from the effects of the entering army only to be double crossed by said army and conquered as a result .. and those leaders having foreknowledge of the coming army entering their land by prior agreement at that .. seeing it has never happened before, then it has to be a last days event .. and the only army that starts warring (kicks off all the wars) is the false prophets armies !!!!

And seeing that their secret pact is with death and hell as recorded within Isaiah, well then, we have direct correlation with the pale horse who is called death where hell follows him too .. this horse signifies the false prophet and his armies.

And according to revelation etc, it is the Gentiles under the false prophets control who invade and conquer Israel for 3 1/2 years, seeing that it is the false prophet who sets himself up in the rebuilt temple.

Add those together and Isaiah comes into clear perspective as the precursor to the Gentiles conquering Israel in the near future.

Serving.  

[ghtan]

1 hour ago, Serving said:

God often slips in statements/declarations within His prophecies that are not relative to the overall timing of said prophecies but are instead references. 

All we need do is look at the circumstances within that prophecy .. that is, never before have the leaders of Israel made a pact with a foreign army to physically come into their land itself, where the leaders believe they will be immune from the effects of the entering army only to be double crossed by said army and conquered as a result .. and those leaders having foreknowledge of the coming army entering their land by prior agreement at that .. seeing it has never happened before, then it has to be a last days event .. and the only army that starts warring (kicks off all the wars) is the false prophets armies !!!!

And seeing that their secret pact is with death and hell as recorded within Isaiah, well then, we have direct correlation with the pale horse who is called death where hell follows him too .. this horse signifies the false prophet and his armies.

And according to revelation etc, it is the Gentiles under the false prophets control who invade and conquer Israel for 3 1/2 years, seeing that it is the false prophet who sets himself up in the rebuilt temple.

Add those together and Isaiah comes into clear perspective as the precursor to the Gentiles conquering Israel in the near future.

Serving.  

Looking back at your earlier post, you say you think Is 28 talks about the end time because what it prophesies has not been fulfilled in history. Some commentators think the covenant with death was some peace treaty with either Assyria or Egypt to protect Israel in case of attack. If so, this would be history and not future. The commentators may be wrong but why rely on a passage that does not clearly say it is about the end time? Revelation has enough.