Standing in the Place , where he is ,not to be ?

[n2thelight]

Matthew 24:15 "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place (whoso readeth, let him understand:)" This reverence to Daniel the prophet, Makes the book of Daniel part of the New Testament. This reference is directed to Daniel 9:27. The "abomination" is when Satan stands in Jerusalem, and proclaims that he is God, and the world believes it. The "desolation" is an incorrect translation into the English, which should read "desolator", and Satan is the desolator that will make the claim that he is God, the true Christ. "Desolation" is a condition, in the Hebrew manuscripts it is written, "On the wings of the desolator," this is not a condition, but a entity, a person. It is through this individual, Satan that the abomination shall come from. It is the desolator [Satan] that shall cause all but the sealed of God, to become desolate, or deceived. Daniel 9:27; "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and the determined shall be poured upon the desolate." The Holy place is the place that the temple sits, and this is the subject for the very first, when the buildings of the temple were observed by the disciples, and the question of what it would be like at His second advent. This is where the desolation [Satan, the Antichrist] shall sit on mount Zion, making his abominations, or statements that he is the Christ. The world will be deceived when Satan claims himself to be Christ, for he does have supernatural powers, and he will use them to to draw the peoples of the world to come to peace. He will say, I am Jesus whom ye have been waiting for, and I have come to bring peace to the world, and the world will be brought to peace and prosperity by Satan, the Antichrist. I feel that this time of world peace will come in a matter of months, or a few years. It will come though. How did Jesus tell us His coming would be at the second advent? Revelation 19:15, 19 tell us how Jesus will come back to earth, at His second coming: Revelation 19:15; "And out of His mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it He should smite the nations: and He shall rule them with a rod of iron: and He treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God." Jesus will come with a sharp sword to smite the nations of the earth. He will subdue them like grapes in the winepress, not some sweet mushy talk of peace. Jesus shall rule over them with a rod of Iron, because at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, is the start of the Millennium age. That thousand year age kingdom of Christ will be a time of learning and discipline, there will be no flesh on earth, for all will be changed to their incorruptible bodies, and will be of full sound mind, and capable of learning and understand what is being taught them. "(Whoso readeth, let him understand:)" This is the statement that has the same meaning as," whosoever heareth, let him understand".   http://www.theseason.org/matthew/matthew24.htm

[BlindSeeker]

On 5/4/2016 at 6:32 PM, SINNERSAVED said:

okay this is a thread to finish and to open  for the abomination of desolation, I know we had a thread on this, but this is about, the person, or thing,?

 standing where he ought not to be ? and so in matthew it is stated

 Matthew 24:15   When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

  Matthew 24:16   Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

 

I recommend reading the following from Josephus. Pay attention to Simon and his elected place of fortification. Mind you, the Jews are divided into 3 fractions and warring within Jerrusalem, murdering and burning each other's food supply, literally creating their own famine with in the city during the Roman seige -

Josephus - Wars Book 5 - Chap.1 - para. 1

THE SEDITIONS AT JERUSALEM AND WHAT TERRIBLE MISERIES AFFLICTED THE CITY BY THEIR MEANS;

; which partition in such evil cases may be said to be a good thing, and the effect of Divine justice. Now as to the attack the zealots made upon the people, and which I esteem the beginning of the city’s destruction, it hath been already explained after an accurate manner; as also whence it arose, and to how great a mischief it was increased. But for the present sedition, one should not mistake if he called it a sedition begotten by another sedition, and to be like a wild beast grown mad, which, for want of food from abroad, fell now upon eating its own flesh.it so happened that the sedition at Jerusalem was revived, and parted into three factions, and that one faction fought against the other1. WHEN therefore Titus had marched over that desert which lies between Egypt and Syria, in the manner forementioned, he came to Cesarea, having resolved to set his forces in order at that place, before he began the war. Nay, indeed, while he was assisting his father at Alexandria, in settling that government which had been newly conferred upon them by God,

. the temple was defiled everywhere with murders. And because they had plenty of provisions, they were of good courage, for there was a great abundance of what was consecrated to sacred uses, and they scrupled not the making use of them; yet were they afraid, on account of their small number; and when they had laid up their arms there, they did not stir from the place they were in. Now as to John, what advantage he had above Eleazar in the multitude of his followers, the like disadvantage he had in the situation he was in, since he had his enemies over his head; and as he could not make any assault upon them without some terror, so was his anger too great to let them be at rest; nay, although he suffered more mischief from Eleazar and his party than he could inflict upon them, yet would he not leave off assaulting them, insomuch that there were continual sallies made one against another, as well as darts thrown at one another, and seized upon the inner court of the temple and laid their arms upon the holy gates, and over the holy fronts of that court], who were among the men of greatest power. There was also with him Hezekiah, the son of Chobar, a person of eminence. Each of these were followed by a great many of the zealots; these a leader of the remaining fraction] never left off murdering; but the truth was, that he could not bear to submit to a tyrant who set up after him. So he being desirous of gaining the entire power and dominion to himself, revolted from John, and took to his assistance Judas the son of Chelcias, and Simon the son of Ezron [John, a leader of another fraction, son of a certain man whose name was Levi, that drew them into this rebellion, and encouraged them in it], who made the first separation of the zealots from the people, and made them retire into the temple, appeared very angry at John’s insolent attempts, which he made everyday upon the people; for this man [leader of one fraction2. For Eleazar, the son of Simon [

Josephus - Wars Book 5 - Chap.1 - para. 3

" the anger of that God who is the author of thy destruction.. Yet mayst thou again grow better, if perchance thou wilt hereafter appease ‘For thou couldst be no longer a place fit for God, nor couldst thou long continue in being, after thou hadst been a sepulcher for the bodies of thy own people, and hadst made the holy house itself a burying-place in this civil war of thine And now, "O must wretched city, what misery so great as this didst thou suffer from the Romans, when they came to purify thee from thy intestine hatred! darts that were thrown by the engines came with that force, that they went over all the buildings, and reached as far as the altar, and the temple itself, and fell upon the priests, and those that were about the sacred offices; insomuch that many persons who came thither with great zeal from the ends of the earth, to offer sacrifices at this celebrated place, which was esteemed holy by all mankind, fell down before their own sacrifices themselves, and sprinkled that altar which was venerable among all men, both Greeks and Barbarians, with their own blood; till the dead bodies of strangers were mingled together with those of their own country, and those of profane persons with those of the priests, and the blood of all sorts of dead carcasses stood in lakes in the holy courts themselves.. For notwithstanding these men were mad with all sorts of impiety, yet did they still admit those that desired to offer their sacrifices, although they took care to search the people of their own country beforehand, and both suspected and watched them; while they were not so much afraid of strangers, who, although they had gotten leave of them, how cruel soever they were, to come into that court, were yet often destroyed by this sedition; for those slew moreover many of the priests, as they were about their sacred ministrations3. But now the tyrant Simon, the son of Gioras, whom the people had invited in, out of the hopes they had of his assistance in the great distresses they were in, having in his power the upper city, and a great part of the lower, did now make more vehement assaults upon John and his party, because they were fought against from above also; yet was he beneath their situation when he attacked them, as they were beneath the attacks of the others above them. Whereby it came to pass that John did both receive and inflict great damage, and that easily, as he was fought against on both sides; and the same advantage that Eleazar and his party had over him, since he was beneath them, the same advantage had he, by his higher situation, over Simon. On which account he easily repelled the attacks that were made from beneath, by the weapons thrown from their hands only; but was obliged to repel those that threw their darts from the temple above him, by his engines of war; for he had such engines as threw darts, and javelins, and stones, and that in no small number, by which he did not only defend himself from such as fought against him,

Josephus - Wars Book 5 -Chap.1 - para. 5

5. They agreed in nothing but this, to kill those that were innocent. The noise also of those that were fighting was incessant, both by day and by night; but the lamentations of those that mourned exceeded the other; nor was there ever any occasion for them to leave off their lamentations, because their calamities came perpetually one upon another, although the deep consternation they were in prevented their outward wailing; but being constrained by their fear to conceal their inward passions, they were inwardly tormented, without daring to open their lips in groans. Nor was any regard paid to those that were still alive, by their relations; nor was there any care taken of burial for those that were dead; the occasion of both which was this, that every one despaired of himself; for those that were not among the seditious had no great desires of any thing, as expecting for certain that they should very soon be destroyed; but for the seditious themselves, they fought against each other, while they trod upon the dead bodies as they lay heaped one upon another, and taking up a mad rage from those dead bodies that were under their feet, became the fiercer thereupon. They, moreover, were still inventing somewhat or other that was pernicious against themselves; and when they had resolved upon any thing, they executed it without mercy, and omitted no method of torment or of barbarity.

 

[Guest]

 

On ‎4‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 3:17 PM, WilliamL said:

But they did not "see all these things." They did not see --

"the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

Part of a prophecy seemingly being fulfilled does not cover the part that isn't: the prophecy either all failed, or one's interpretation of it failed. In this case the latter.

The generation not to pass is the generation that sees the budding of the fig tree, not the first century AD generation living when the prophecy was made.

Revelation also begins saying...............

1   The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
2  Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
3   Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
 

John's baptism, was baptism for the remission of sins. His message to the people was a warning of the coming wrath, and the escape from it............................

[Guest]

3 hours ago, BlindSeeker said:

I recommend reading the following from Josephus. Pay attention to Simon and his elected place of fortification. Mind you, the Jews are divided into 3 fractions and warring within Jerrusalem, murdering and burning each other's food supply, literally creating their own famine with in the city during the Roman seige -

Josephus - Wars Book 5 - Chap.1 - para. 1

 

THE SEDITIONS AT JERUSALEM AND WHAT TERRIBLE MISERIES AFFLICTED THE CITY BY THEIR MEANS;

 

; which partition in such evil cases may be said to be a good thing, and the effect of Divine justice. Now as to the attack the zealots made upon the people, and which I esteem the beginning of the city’s destruction, it hath been already explained after an accurate manner; as also whence it arose, and to how great a mischief it was increased. But for the present sedition, one should not mistake if he called it a sedition begotten by another sedition, and to be like a wild beast grown mad, which, for want of food from abroad, fell now upon eating its own flesh.it so happened that the sedition at Jerusalem was revived, and parted into three factions, and that one faction fought against the other1. WHEN therefore Titus had marched over that desert which lies between Egypt and Syria, in the manner forementioned, he came to Cesarea, having resolved to set his forces in order at that place, before he began the war. Nay, indeed, while he was assisting his father at Alexandria, in settling that government which had been newly conferred upon them by God,

 

. the temple was defiled everywhere with murders. And because they had plenty of provisions, they were of good courage, for there was a great abundance of what was consecrated to sacred uses, and they scrupled not the making use of them; yet were they afraid, on account of their small number; and when they had laid up their arms there, they did not stir from the place they were in. Now as to John, what advantage he had above Eleazar in the multitude of his followers, the like disadvantage he had in the situation he was in, since he had his enemies over his head; and as he could not make any assault upon them without some terror, so was his anger too great to let them be at rest; nay, although he suffered more mischief from Eleazar and his party than he could inflict upon them, yet would he not leave off assaulting them, insomuch that there were continual sallies made one against another, as well as darts thrown at one another, and seized upon the inner court of the temple and laid their arms upon the holy gates, and over the holy fronts of that court], who were among the men of greatest power. There was also with him Hezekiah, the son of Chobar, a person of eminence. Each of these were followed by a great many of the zealots; these a leader of the remaining fraction] never left off murdering; but the truth was, that he could not bear to submit to a tyrant who set up after him. So he being desirous of gaining the entire power and dominion to himself, revolted from John, and took to his assistance Judas the son of Chelcias, and Simon the son of Ezron [John, a leader of another fraction, son of a certain man whose name was Levi, that drew them into this rebellion, and encouraged them in it], who made the first separation of the zealots from the people, and made them retire into the temple, appeared very angry at John’s insolent attempts, which he made everyday upon the people; for this man [leader of one fraction2. For Eleazar, the son of Simon [

 

Josephus - Wars Book 5 - Chap.1 - para. 3

 

" the anger of that God who is the author of thy destruction.. Yet mayst thou again grow better, if perchance thou wilt hereafter appease ‘For thou couldst be no longer a place fit for God, nor couldst thou long continue in being, after thou hadst been a sepulcher for the bodies of thy own people, and hadst made the holy house itself a burying-place in this civil war of thine And now, "O must wretched city, what misery so great as this didst thou suffer from the Romans, when they came to purify thee from thy intestine hatred! darts that were thrown by the engines came with that force, that they went over all the buildings, and reached as far as the altar, and the temple itself, and fell upon the priests, and those that were about the sacred offices; insomuch that many persons who came thither with great zeal from the ends of the earth, to offer sacrifices at this celebrated place, which was esteemed holy by all mankind, fell down before their own sacrifices themselves, and sprinkled that altar which was venerable among all men, both Greeks and Barbarians, with their own blood; till the dead bodies of strangers were mingled together with those of their own country, and those of profane persons with those of the priests, and the blood of all sorts of dead carcasses stood in lakes in the holy courts themselves.. For notwithstanding these men were mad with all sorts of impiety, yet did they still admit those that desired to offer their sacrifices, although they took care to search the people of their own country beforehand, and both suspected and watched them; while they were not so much afraid of strangers, who, although they had gotten leave of them, how cruel soever they were, to come into that court, were yet often destroyed by this sedition; for those slew moreover many of the priests, as they were about their sacred ministrations3. But now the tyrant Simon, the son of Gioras, whom the people had invited in, out of the hopes they had of his assistance in the great distresses they were in, having in his power the upper city, and a great part of the lower, did now make more vehement assaults upon John and his party, because they were fought against from above also; yet was he beneath their situation when he attacked them, as they were beneath the attacks of the others above them. Whereby it came to pass that John did both receive and inflict great damage, and that easily, as he was fought against on both sides; and the same advantage that Eleazar and his party had over him, since he was beneath them, the same advantage had he, by his higher situation, over Simon. On which account he easily repelled the attacks that were made from beneath, by the weapons thrown from their hands only; but was obliged to repel those that threw their darts from the temple above him, by his engines of war; for he had such engines as threw darts, and javelins, and stones, and that in no small number, by which he did not only defend himself from such as fought against him,

 

Josephus - Wars Book 5 -Chap.1 - para. 5

 

5. They agreed in nothing but this, to kill those that were innocent. The noise also of those that were fighting was incessant, both by day and by night; but the lamentations of those that mourned exceeded the other; nor was there ever any occasion for them to leave off their lamentations, because their calamities came perpetually one upon another, although the deep consternation they were in prevented their outward wailing; but being constrained by their fear to conceal their inward passions, they were inwardly tormented, without daring to open their lips in groans. Nor was any regard paid to those that were still alive, by their relations; nor was there any care taken of burial for those that were dead; the occasion of both which was this, that every one despaired of himself; for those that were not among the seditious had no great desires of any thing, as expecting for certain that they should very soon be destroyed; but for the seditious themselves, they fought against each other, while they trod upon the dead bodies as they lay heaped one upon another, and taking up a mad rage from those dead bodies that were under their feet, became the fiercer thereupon. They, moreover, were still inventing somewhat or other that was pernicious against themselves; and when they had resolved upon any thing, they executed it without mercy, and omitted no method of torment or of barbarity.

 

 

 

In the book titled "Jewish literacy", Rabbi Joseph Telushkin says this..........

The highly embittered refugees who succeeded in escaping the Galilean massacres fled to the last major Jewish stronghold-Jerusalem. There, they killed anyone in the Jewish leadership who was not as radical as they. Thus, all the more moderate Jewish leaders who headed the Jewish government at the revolts beginning in 66 were dead by 68- and not one died at the hands of a Roman. All were killed by fellow Jews.

He also says of the burning of the food supply by the warring factions this

The starvation resulting from this mad act caused suffering as great as any Romans afflicted.

 

[douggg]

On 4/5/2016 at 7:32 PM, SINNERSAVED said:

okay this is a thread to finish and to open  for the abomination of desolation, I know we had a thread on this, but this is about, the person, or thing,?

 standing where he ought not to be ? and so in matthew it is stated

 Matthew 24:15   When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

  Matthew 24:16   Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

  Matthew 24:17   Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

  Matthew 24:18   Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

  Matthew 24:19   And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

  Matthew 24:20   But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

  Matthew 24:21   For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
 and marks version KJV

 Mark 13:11   But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

  Mark 13:12   Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.

  Mark 13:13   And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

  Mark 13:14   But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

  Mark 13:15   And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:

  Mark 13:16   And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.

  Mark 13:17   But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

  Mark 13:18   And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.

  Mark 13:19   For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
 

what we have is , the abomination of desolation,  spoken by Daniel standing where it ought not,? in mark

stand in the holy place, in matthew

 so in Daniel

 Daniel 11:31   And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
Daniel 12:11   And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

 I think I have most of what we need, , we need to see who it is ? and or what it is ? and how this occurs  that's makes it desolate?

thank you

You have almost everything you need.

The AOD will be a statue image of the slain and come back to life man of sin.     What makes it speak and appear to have life will be by a great deception which the statue will appear at times to do such because it will be incarnated by Satan when he is cast down to earth for the time, times, half times of Revelation 12:14.    The statue image will demand worship.

The passage you don't have is in Ezekiel 28, a message to the king of Tyre, a code name for Satan.    God says he will cast Satan down to earth.  And that kings of the earth will behold him.    And that God will bring a fire in the midst of him, bringing him to ashes.

We have to project somewhat about how that is going to happen... as there is no direct verses in Revelation.    

The living statue image will be on the temple mount when Jesus returns.    The outer facade of gold, or whatever, will be melted away into ashes by the brightness of the Lord.    And there will be Satan on the temple mount, exposed for the kings of the earth, and everyone present at the Lord's Coming to see.    It is going to be an awesome sight.    The great accuser, deceiver, father of lies, and sin - exposed.     

Ezekiel 28:

17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

And now my favorite bible verse in the whole bible...

Matthew 28:

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

 

 

Edited May 15, 2016 by douggg

[Eoreris]

The (Holy place) now is any Christian church altar where you can get a (continual sacrifice) -(Christ blood) forgiveness continually as you ask as you bow and pray silently at the altar at any time or as many times as you wish ..  To say it is otherwise such as some future temple in Israel that sacrifices lambs instead of claiming Jesus christ as the sacrifice is blasphemous after all he went through..   So - the altars of Christian churches are this prophecy  (Holy place) now and (Nowhere else)  Now- when you see an abomination (Stand) at one of these holy places you will know God.s wrath is near.  So what could possibly stand at a christian church altar, be accepted, even with possibly the president of the United states in attendance giving his blessings and have a happy honeymoon?  All on live TV so all will see it. Calling them "beautiful people whom we will protect their rights" Now you know what the coming soon abomination that crosses God,s line and causes him to start desolating the land.. There are 3 abominations against God told by Moses and they are all nearly the same thing and it (Has) to be one of these as God (himself voice) speaking has told not of any other. This (IS) the AOD soon to be seen

Edited July 23, 2016 by Eoreris