Is the Roman empire, alive ?and the last dominating empire ?

[Serving]

On 07/05/2016 at 11:43 PM, Diaste said:

A revived Roman Empire is not the last dominating empire. In fact, Rome has little to do with the final empire, other than maybe bowing to the beast and encouraging all good Catholics to do likewise. Rome has no place in the statute seen in the book of Daniel. There are many reason for this but three are really evident. The leaders of the three nations that are identified by Daniel all ruled their empires from Babylon. Rome did not. Related to this, all three empires occupied the same territory in terms of geography. Rome did not. Further, the leaders of these nations that ruled the same area in succession changed the culture of the conquered people to the worship of their own gods. Again, Rome did not. This is well documented in the bible and secular histories. We have very different facts concerning the Gold, Brass and Silver empires and Rome: The precious metals ruled toward the east, Rome was west and north; The precious metal capitols were in Babylon, Rome's capitol was not; The precious metal empires changed the culture of the conquered nations where Rome embraced the different cultures and traditions, as long as those cultures valued commerce and peace.

Many relate the verse "They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while." Rev 17:10, with the great statue from Daniel 2. First, there are only 4 empires in the statue and as such two empires must be forced into the interpretation of Rev 17:10. Second, Rev 4:1 says, "After this I looked, and, behold, a door [was] opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard [was] as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter." This means everything spoken from this point occurs hereafter. The only conclusion is that the 7 kings from Rev 17:10 are yet future from the moment the prophecy was spoken. That leaves Assyria, Egypt and Rome orphaned as they do not fit the very distinct profile of the precious metal kingdoms, nor to they come hereafter. They are not a part of either Daniel 2 or Rev 17:10.

There is an empire that came after Greece that fits the same profile as the precious metals. This Iron Kingdom ruled the same area, their capitol was very near Babylon, they changed the culture of the conquered nations and, in keeping with this from Daniel, "And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all [things]: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise." this kingdom literally broke and smashed anything that would remind people of the conquered nation. That empire was Islam. Islam is the Iron kingdom and will be the final dominating empire. 

Islam is NOT a kingdom dude .. that is a very weak position indeed .. 

Besides, Islam didn't arrive until 600 years AFTER Christ .. so you're trying to tell us that no empire ruled for well over a 1000 years after the fall of the Grecian empire right up until 600 ad ?????? 

No way is that in line with the scriptures .. no way on earth.

Are you aware of the Roman Fasces and what it stands for?

Let alone all the other Roman symbols of power found in many European coat of arms/flags including the USA's? Let alone how the world SYSTEM of TODAY is STILL based on the Roman system legally speaking???? Just ONE example of MANY BTW .. 

Let alone how the WEST has SHAPED the WHOLE WORLD and RULED as TOP DOG and NOT Islam which is but a PAWN of the ruling elites, a TOOL .. which BTW, the WEST has been covertly propping up for their dark schemes and NOT the other way around, and I could go on and on with REAL WORLD examples whereby Islam has played NO ROLE whatsoever besides the role the wicked rulers have secretly PERMITTED it to play .. Islam is NOTHING but CONTROLLED OPPOSITION.

Islam is but a TOOL of the wicked rulers and not the other way round .. dig deeper .. much deeper and then you will see.

Here is Roman authority reflected in the US congress .. REAL WORLD EXAMPLE .. because the bible deals with the real world and not theological fantasy's created in academic bubbles insulated from all reality and Godly reason .. 

[Diaste]

1 hour ago, Serving said:

Islam is NOT a kingdom dude .. that is a very weak position indeed .. 

Besides, Islam didn't arrive until 600 years AFTER Christ .. so you're trying to tell us that no empire ruled for well over a 1000 years after the fall of the Grecian empire right up until 600 ad ?????? 

No way is that in line with the scriptures .. no way on earth. You are correct. This is not a conclusion based on any earthly knowledge. It is only revealed in the scripture through the wisdom of the Spirit. The conclusion does not, "line up with scripture" scripture demands the conclusion.

Are you aware of the Roman Fasces and what it stands for?

Let alone all the other Roman symbols of power found in many European coat of arms/flags including the USA's? Let alone how the world SYSTEM of TODAY is STILL based on the Roman system legally speaking???? Just ONE example of MANY BTW .. 

Let alone how the WEST has SHAPED the WHOLE WORLD and RULED as TOP DOG and NOT Islam which is but a PAWN of the ruling elites, a TOOL .. which BTW, the WEST has been covertly propping up for their dark schemes and NOT the other way around, and I could go on and on with REAL WORLD examples whereby Islam has played NO ROLE whatsoever besides the role the wicked rulers have secretly PERMITTED it to play .. Islam is NOTHING but CONTROLLED OPPOSITION.

Islam is but a TOOL of the wicked rulers and not the other way round .. dig deeper .. much deeper and then you will see.

Here is Roman authority reflected in the US congress .. REAL WORLD EXAMPLE .. because the bible deals with the real world and not theological fantasy's created in academic bubbles insulated from all reality and Godly reason .. 

 

What do you mean Islam is not a kingdom? I'm thinking IS would disagree. They are organized just like any government including infrastructure.  Islam was also a great kingdom from the 7th century to the 19th and oversaw the fall of Rome. Islam was larger than Rome, more powerful than Rome and still exists today, where Rome does not. This is a matter of history and you can read it just about anywhere if you search for History of Islam.

What are you talking about? What power vacuum? No empire ruled for over a 1000 years? The Seleucids ruled the levant for 300 years after Alexander. The Ptolemic kingdom had some control there as well. This was well before Rome finally controlled the region in the 1st century BC. You have to read the history of the region to know who ruled what and when.  I don't believe your question, "so you're trying to tell us that no empire ruled for well over a 1000 years after the fall of the Grecian empire right up until 600 ad ?????? ",  has anything in mind other than an attempt to shame and manipulate.  It serves no other purpose and has nothing to do with what I posted in this discussion.  What I did post is in fact biblical, historical, and factual. If you have a real question fell free to ask. The 'fasces' is a symbol of power or authority that survives today in some forms. To somehow equate an ancient symbol representing penal authority with world domination sans any other evidence is ludicrous. I can do the same thing. The Lion was the symbol of Babylon, I see lion statues and reliefs in many cities, World Domination by Babylon! Proves nothing.

Mostly all I see in the examples you offer is faith in your conviction. You spend a great deal of effort rationalizing to conform evidence supporting your construct. Where is the biblical evidence that supports the premise Rome is last dominating empire? Biblical evidence.  Please prop up that post so I can hew it down with a scriptural axe.

I know you believe that Islam is a tool. You are right, but not in the way you think. Islam is a tool of almighty God, who will allow Satan to empower the leader of Islam to become the most powerful man on earth, in order to test the people of God. The belief  that somehow the wicked rulers of earth controlled Islam's domination of the world for 1000 years when Islam was the greatest and most powerful empire ever seen is beyond fantastic. Religious zeal and fanaticism is beyond control of any group. If your premise is true then Christianity would simply be under control and there would be no need to persecute adherents. The real world truth is tolerance and acceptance wipe out fervor and persecution inflames radical zeal.

That being said, I'll continue the discussion if we stay on the topic of the last dominating empire, based on biblical facts and not personal agendas.  "Real world" evidence doesn't matter unless it can be related to scripture. Also, special pleading, personal attacks, red herrings and emotional parentheticals are logically fallacious. There are examples of each in your post and I would ask you refrain in the future.

Now on to biblical evidence:

Rome is ruled out by the following:

Dan 8

8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.

9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.

11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down.

The Goat is Greece, The four Horns are the diadochi and out of one of them came the little horn(The beast, or antichrist, if you will.) This little horn must be the Antichrist as we see he magnifies himself right up to Jesus, takes away the daily sacrifice and casts down the sanctuary. But there's more. This little horn comes from one of the four notable horns which are: Seleucid, Lysimachus, Cassander and Ptolemy. This has nothing to do with Rome. At the time of Alexander Rome was barely a blip on the radar. Ruled by foreign kings, at war with their neighbors and foreign invaders, embroiled in class warfare, defeated at various times by Samnites, Gauls, and Hannibal, Rome was chaos for 500 years while fighting for survival. This is not the great conqueror as depicted in Dan 8, nor one, or all of the notable generals.
It's clear from Dan 8:9 that the little horn comes from one of the lands, or lineage, of the four Generals that ruled the Grecian empire after Alexander. Plus, we have a general location from whence this little horn cometh.  He is somewhere in between the south, the east and the west. The 'pleasant land' certainly means Israel. So the little horn is east of Israel.(It must be as east is already mentioned and the scripture would not record, "toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the east") Since we are talking about the four divisions of Greece the south must mean Egypt; or at least the Arabian peninsula, or both. Since the little horn waxes strong toward the east as well, he is therefore west of this eastern location. The Grecian empire ranged to the Indus, almost to India; this is obviously the east. This would put the little horn east of Israel and west of the farthest extent of the Grecian empire. That means that the little horn will come out of the former Seleucid empire(Mediterranean to India and part of Arabia), parts of which exist today.(The Levant, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan.) The Seleucid empire is where the beginnings of Islam occurred.

Islam also fits very well with the description of 'breaking in pieces' from Dan 2:40 

40 "And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise."

On the news and YouTube we see video of IS breaking in pieces the ancient artifacts of Babylon, Persia and Greece whenever they conquer a city or a region. IS, which is Islam, certainly breaks in pieces and bruises. Of course they did all this for 1400 years all across the Mideast, Asia and Europe, broke in pieces and bruised, where ever their conquests took them. Rome did none of that. In fact Rome did just the opposite. They tolerated the gods and traditions of all cultures as long as you kept the peace and paid your taxes. The description of this Iron Kingdom 'breaking in pieces and brusing' does not fit the actions and policies of the Roman Republic. The description of the Iron Kingdom fits the actions of tyranny and despotism. This is another fact securing Islam as the Iron Kingdom and removing Rome from the picture.

Another biblical fact that fits well with Islam is the iron legs and feet of the statue in Dan 2. We see the 4th kingdom in the Iron legs(Islam) and the extension of that kingdom in the feet and toes. This is showing the Iron Kingdom never really went away(the feet are still connected to the legs) but still exists in slightly different composition.  Rome would not fit here as Rome is dead and gone and no vestiges remain. Unlike Islam where even though the last Caliph ruled in 1924, the book and the adherents, the teachings and the religion, never disappeared and, we see the revival of that scourge in the Mideast today in IS. Further, Islam fits very well with the description of the toes of iron and clay. The revival of Islam and the caliphate is made up of Iron and clay in that all nationalities are joining IS and giving bayah. Clearly this is a mix that doesn't adhere as we see the joining of foreigners to IS and then defecting when they find out Islam is not to their liking, just like Dan 2:41-43:

41 "And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay."

42 "And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken."

43 "And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay."

Clay in an interesting term here. Clay must be molded if it is to have a purpose. IS is trying to do just that through propaganda on social media. They shape the thinking of the disenfranchised, get them whipped into a frothy, self righteous fervor, get 'em to 'join up', and bake them into a finished piece in the fires of religious fanaticism.  But the clay never becomes iron and it never "cleaves to iron". Just because I find that interesting doesn't mean I think that's what this verse references. I think this verse is telling us that members of the revived Iron kingdom go in to the nations of the world and mingle with other people: "they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men:" Islam and the Muslim faith do just that. They are in every country and do indeed mingle but do not cleave. For instance, the requirement by Muslims that schools put in basins so the Muslim children can wash their feet three times a day. "

Muslims in Houston Texas decided they were going to build a compound outside of the city limits so they could practice their “peaceful” religion.

They found some land they considered ideal and bought it, even knowing full well they were buying a plot of land next to a pig farm. Once they bought the land they then asked the farmer to move."

http://patriotvideos.net/muslims-asked-this-farmer-to-bow-to-their-demands-the-way-he-responded-screams-freedom/

These are just two of the hundreds of examples. 

Strong evidence for Islam as the Iron Kingdom and just as strong is the evidence that Rome is not, and cannot be, the last revived empire.

 

[Diaste]

On 5/15/2016 at 6:07 PM, Marilyn C said:

Hi Diaste,

Some good thoughts there & I agree with most of it. You have thought through quite clearly, I believe.

Marilyn.

Thanks, I have thought about it great deal for many years. Graciously the Spirit has revealed things to me that I would have never seen on my own.

[Diaste]

On 4/12/2016 at 8:52 AM, spiderman1917 said:

Most Catholics don't trust or obey the Pope on many issues like contraception for instance.

Even those who think he will be guided by the Holy Spirit when defining Dogma don't trust him on other issues.

Those who penned the Scriptures were guided from error while doing that.  It doesn't mean the rest of the things they did were inspired.

The Pope when He was elected bowed and asked for prayers because He knows he is a sinner.

The Antichrist will declare himself to be God.  Since not much of the world and most Catholics don't obey the Pope, I find it amusing that people think the world will suddenly blindly follow him and adore him as God.

That's very interesting. I hadn't thought of that but I never thought the Pope was going to be the AC in any case.

[Diaste]

On 4/12/2016 at 6:34 PM, SINNERSAVED said:

we see that when Jesus was crucified , and the temple was destroyed it was by the Roman Empire , and it was  the dominating force at that time, and today , we have a Rome, and does it , dominate the religious  world belief today , and is it the last of the empires to dominate, or does it come to the ten  united  nations  plus the Rome, Empire, we see that the ten toes, are of clay and iron, is it because Rome, has, still a influence, on all countries, as the POPE, is a major factor in worlds religion ? could it be ?

 or not to be ,?

does America fall under this Empire, for religious reasons in the end times, ?

or is it going to be a muslim Empire, in the end , above all these, that hold, the domination of religion, over the powers of Rome, ?

thank you and blessings............

Since there was a religious domination question in the first post I thought I'd look it up. Here are demographics and projections:

 

 

http://www.pewforum.org/2015/04/02/religious-projections-2010-2050/

I found some numbers on Roman Catholics as well.

There are an estimated 1.2 billion Roman Catholics in the world, according to Vatican figures. More than 40% of the world's Catholics live in Latin America - but Africa has seen the biggest growth in Catholic congregations in recent years.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-21443313

This means there are roughly as many Christians as Roman Catholics. It also shows there are more Muslims than Roman Catholics or Christians and as many Hindus as Christianity. This shows Roman Catholicism is not the dominant religion and puts Muslims at the top as the religion with the largest number of adherents.