appy Posted April 17, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 23 Topic Count: 133 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,864 Content Per Day: 0.62 Reputation: 2,596 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted April 17, 2016 Universalism is a demonic doctrine that denies the work of Christ on the cross. Purgatory also falls short of the finished work of Christ on the cross alone. Both of these deceive people by having them believe that they can get to heaven by their own power instead of relying on Jesus to save them. It is saying that the work Jesus did on the cross was incomplete and insufficient. This is definitely a false teaching at its very core. Jesus' death on the cross is the complete atonement for the sins of anyone who believes on Jesus to save them. The full redemptive work was accomplished on the cross alone. Jesus declared on the cross “it is finished” meaning he once and for all paid the cost. We are justified by faith. There are no sins left for purgatory to cleanse because it was all done by Jesus on the cross. This is why Jesus said, "It is finished!" The bible tells us that salvation is a free gift. It would not be free if we had to pay for it would it? I think we all can agree that Samuel was speaking of the grave not heaven. In the old testament there was the expectation for both man and animal going down into the earth after their death. One place for all. The new testament however, teaches that believers go to be with the Lord, while unbelievers go to a place of great discomfort. Yes God is merciful, but the bible is very clear, that once we die an earthly death, there is no second chance for repentance. We must come to God through Jesus while we are alive. The parable of the rich man and Lazarus is an example of the need to repent while living. The rich man was not sorry for his sins, only sorry about where he ended up. And after having ended up there, he could not get to the place where the poor man was. Once a person has rejected God's plan of salvation. There is no hope. There is nothing for an unbeliever to look forward to. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted April 17, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.11 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted April 17, 2016 4 hours ago, giggling appy said: Universalism is a demonic doctrine that denies the work of Christ on the cross. Purgatory also falls short of the finished work of Christ on the cross alone. Both of these deceive people by having them believe that they can get to heaven by their own power instead of relying on Jesus to save them. It is saying that the work Jesus did on the cross was incomplete and insufficient. This is definitely a false teaching at its very core. Jesus' death on the cross is the complete atonement for the sins of anyone who believes on Jesus to save them. The full redemptive work was accomplished on the cross alone. Jesus declared on the cross “it is finished” meaning he once and for all paid the cost. We are justified by faith. There are no sins left for purgatory to cleanse because it was all done by Jesus on the cross. This is why Jesus said, "It is finished!" The bible tells us that salvation is a free gift. It would not be free if we had to pay for it would it? I think we all can agree that Samuel was speaking of the grave not heaven. In the old testament there was the expectation for both man and animal going down into the earth after their death. One place for all. The new testament however, teaches that believers go to be with the Lord, while unbelievers go to a place of great discomfort. Yes God is merciful, but the bible is very clear, that once we die an earthly death, there is no second chance for repentance. We must come to God through Jesus while we are alive. The parable of the rich man and Lazarus is an example of the need to repent while living. The rich man was not sorry for his sins, only sorry about where he ended up. And after having ended up there, he could not get to the place where the poor man was. Once a person has rejected God's plan of salvation. There is no hope. There is nothing for an unbeliever to look forward to. . Great commentary, appy. I can't find a thing to add. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted April 17, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.82 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted April 17, 2016 20 hours ago, Jayne said: Spiderman, what Bible version are you reading from because I have looked online in about twenty-two different Bible versions and I can't find where 1 Kings 28:19 says "world of the dead". ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Bopeep The Bible is silent on the "age of accountability" because there is no such magic number. I believe, based on King David's assertion that he would one day "go" to where his dead child was, but that his dead child would not "come back" to him, that babies who die go to heaven. I also believe that the very young children who cannot understand the concept of personal sin and personal wrong-doing will go to heaven when they die. But the average 13-year-old? They know what is right and wrong. There is no "age" because understanding in each small child is different based on what they can understand. I believe that is what I stated. The age 13 was merely speculative on my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartSearcher Posted April 17, 2016 Group: Junior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 82 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 99 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/28/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/20/1990 Share Posted April 17, 2016 Well spidey interestingly enough this is one of the very few scriptures that show evidence of Ghosts and the fact that apparently witchcraft has the ability to raise the dead all of which is often times questions many Christians ask about but hardly ever given enough scriptural evidence for it. In the scriptures the dead are often times refer to as sleeping, now if you think about about when you sleep you eventually wake up and get up yes? So say sleeping was a term used for the dead because eventually they would once again wake up perhaps being the reason it was prophesied the dead in christ will rise first and us who remain and are alive will join them in heavenly glory. I can say from personal experience that the spiritual realm is in fact real and there is places there where the dead go but aside from that I am not comfortable speaking in deeper detail in public, however as to the subject at hand i think this goes deeper than the world of the dead and it may very well tie into not just heaven and hell but the ties between the dead and the living. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayne Posted April 17, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 106 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 3,808 Content Per Day: 1.29 Reputation: 4,791 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 17, 2016 2 hours ago, bopeep1909 said: I believe that is what I stated. The age 13 was merely speculative on my part. OK, I see. I misunderstood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appy Posted April 18, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 23 Topic Count: 133 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,864 Content Per Day: 0.62 Reputation: 2,596 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted April 18, 2016 On 4/16/2016 at 3:59 PM, MorningGlory said: There is no repentance once we die, Spiderman. I know it's what we would like to believe but God has His own plan. Hebrews 9:27King James Version (KJV) 27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment. Thank you for your response . Likewise, I thought yours to be well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyAngeL Posted April 30, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 23 Topic Count: 155 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,464 Content Per Day: 1.02 Reputation: 8,810 Days Won: 57 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/12/1952 Share Posted April 30, 2016 On 4/16/2016 at 3:31 PM, Ezra said: This is a reference to Sheol/Hades, where the souls and spirits of both the righteous and unrighteous dead went before the resurrection of Christ. Now only the unsaved go to Hades. Sheol was in "the lower parts of the earth". No. I agree with Ezra. No where in the Bible do you read where the dead have a second chance at salvation. It is eternal. Thank you Ezra for stating the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman1917 Posted April 30, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 117 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,028 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 810 Days Won: 2 Joined: 02/24/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 30, 2016 On 4/16/2016 at 3:31 PM, Ezra said: This is a reference to Sheol/Hades, where the souls and spirits of both the righteous and unrighteous dead went before the resurrection of Christ. Now only the unsaved go to Hades. Sheol was in "the lower parts of the earth". No. What is the Scriptural basis for saying there are no saved souls in Sheol any longer? Nothing in scripture says that if saved, you are immediately judged and go to heaven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradigm Posted April 30, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 142 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 165 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/26/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 30, 2016 22 minutes ago, spiderman1917 said: What is the Scriptural basis for saying there are no saved souls in Sheol any longer? Nothing in scripture says that if saved, you are immediately judged and go to heaven More good questions Spiderman. Let me add a few more for consideration. How many sections or realms of the dead are there? How many parts of man are there, and do they all go to the same place upon death? Is Sheol/Hades everlasting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted April 30, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted April 30, 2016 5 hours ago, spiderman1917 said: What is the Scriptural basis for saying there are no saved souls in Sheol any longer? Nothing in scripture says that if saved, you are immediately judged and go to heaven The resurrection of Christ is the scriptural basis for believing that every saint (the saved one) is now in Heaven (Heb 12:22-24), and every saint who dies goes directly to Heaven (2 Cor 5:1-6). The judgement of believers is a judgement of their works while on earth. It is a future judgement, at the Judgement Seat of Christ (2 Cor 5:10). Sheol is called Hades in the NT, and is now reserved for those who are not saved, but waiting for their final judgement at the Great White Throne (Rev 20:11-15). In Rev 20:13,14, the word "hell" is really Hades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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