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spiderman1917

The World of the dead

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Do people know they are rejecting God's truth... yes. Romans 1 speaks of this, that the knowledge that God exists is within in peoples hearts and minds from the beginning of creation. Because he has made himself known plainly to all mankind. God has also revealed his wrath on all ungodliness. And because God has revealed this to all. . . all mankind is accountable for what they do know, that God does exist. And that man is sinful and in need of a savior.

This is known by all peoples since Adam. The knowledge of God and sin is known instinctively. Because God has written about himself on our hearts. And is clearly understood. And since all men aware of God's invisible qualities, his power and divine nature all are without excuse.

People since the beginning of creation, have tried to suppress the truth and replace it with their own merits that say they are good people by their own standards instead of what God has said are his standards. All men are accountable to humble themselves before God. That means even people from Adam till now could not trust in themselves for salvation. And this is what other religions do, place trust in themselves to get to heaven.

The person who says that he is not a sinner is in error, and it therefore is a rejection of God's revelation to all mankind. Because God has revealed to all we are in need of his forgiveness. The gospel then is a revelation to all men that forgiveness is available through Jesus. When a person rejects the gospel, they are not rejecting Christianity, but God.

People who have not heard the gospel are accountable because they have knowledge of God in their hearts, they also have knowledge of sin and are in need of a savior. These two things are what people do know, not what they do not know. Either a person excepts what God has revealed or the person rejects it. Does not matter who they are or when they were born. All who rejected God's plan of forgiveness are not in heaven, because they have said no to the truth.

 

 

 

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Okay,  so it looks like your answer is yes,  all native Americans and aboriginals went to hell before white people showed up to colonized and evangelize (because none of them accepted Jesus as their lord and savior prior to that).....wow!  :unsure:

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Guest shiloh357
20 hours ago, spiderman1917 said:

Okay,  so it looks like your answer is yes,  all native Americans and aboriginals went to hell before white people showed up to colonized and evangelize (because none of them accepted Jesus as their lord and savior prior to that).....wow!  :unsure:

Even before Jesus came, men were responsible for the revelation of God that they had available to them and according to Paul, they rejected that knowledge.  They knew God but they rejected Him. In Romans 1, Paul said that they rejected the general revelation and chose to worship the creation instead of the Creator.  All of creation testifies to man of God's existence but man has rejected the testimony of nature and the created order.   

That appears to me to be  what Appy is referring to.  You need to read what she said, and not read into it what she did not intend.

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It's quite simple ....they didn't accept Jesus as their lord and savior.... None of them hoped in him,  called on his name,  knew who he was or that he died for their sins, or rose from the dead.... 

...then if a bunch of greedy Europeans aren't living after the example of Christ,  what is to say that the aboriginals know what they preach is the truth?  Because they have a book that says so? 

So, before the Europeans showed up to colonize them,  aboriginals did not accept Jesus or that he died for their sins. 

Could they still get to heaven?  If so,  the truth would have had to be revealed to them after their death... Pure and simple.

And no, they were never told about Christ,  so the truth was not revealed to them,  therefore they weren't at fault for rejecting it. 

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Guest shiloh357
19 minutes ago, spiderman1917 said:

It's quite simple ....they didn't accept Jesus as their lord and savior.... None of them hoped in him,  called on his name,  knew who he was or that he died for their sins, or rose from the dead.... 

...then if a bunch of greedy Europeans aren't living after the example of Christ,  what is to say that the aboriginals know what they preach is the truth?  Because they have a book that says so? 

So, before the Europeans showed up to colonize them,  aboriginals did not accept Jesus or that he died for their sins. 

Could they still get to heaven?  If so,  the truth would have had to be revealed to them after their death... Pure and simple.

And no, they were never told about Christ,  so the truth was not revealed to them,  therefore they weren't at fault for rejecting it. 

No, they were not accountable for what didn't hear or know.   But the Bible says they were accountable for knowing about God because the created order testifies.  

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.  (Rom 1:21-23)

 So it is the case that they had knowledge of God but exchanged the truth for a lie.  They were accountable for the light that was available and which they rejected.   So God is not unjust.  They were not being punished for what they didn't know.

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They  did not know much about God until recent in our history when the white settlers showed up. 

So,  to say that they didn't all go to hell means precisely that some people were evangelized after their death...pure and simple...

This  opens us up to a realm of possibilities where we can not put God in a box or limit him. 

Perhaps  that is what scripture means when it says the gospel was preached even to the Dead. 

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9 hours ago, spiderman1917 said:

So,  to say that they didn't all go to hell....
means precisely that some people were evangelized after their death...pure and simple....

:mgdetective:

Pure

But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep. 2 Peter 2:1-3 (English Standard Version)

And Simple

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction, making them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; and if he rescued righteous Lot, greatly distressed by the sensual conduct of the wicked (for as that righteous man lived among them day after day, he was tormenting his righteous soul over their lawless deeds that he saw and heard); then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge in the lust of defiling passion and despise authority. 2 Peter 2:4-10 (English Standard Version)

And God Is Able

Bold and willful, they do not tremble as they blaspheme the glorious ones, whereas angels, though greater in might and power, do not pronounce a blasphemous judgment against them before the Lord. But these, like irrational animals, creatures of instinct, born to be caught and destroyed, blaspheming about matters of which they are ignorant, will also be destroyed in their destruction, suffering wrong as the wage for their wrongdoing. They count it pleasure to revel in the daytime. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their deceptions, while they feast with you. They have eyes full of adultery, insatiable for sin. They entice unsteady souls. They have hearts trained in greed. Accursed children! Forsaking the right way, they have gone astray. They have followed the way of Balaam, the son of Beor, who loved gain from wrongdoing, but was rebuked for his own transgression; a speechless donkey spoke with human voice and restrained the prophet’s madness. 2 Peter 2:10-16 (English Standard Version)

Oh So Able

These are waterless springs and mists driven by a storm. For them the gloom of utter darkness has been reserved. For, speaking loud boasts of folly, they entice by sensual passions of the flesh those who are barely escaping from those who live in error. They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption. For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved. For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.” 2 Peter 2:17-22 (English Standard Version)

But Most Men

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. Hebrews 3:12 (King James Version)

Won't

And they said, There is no hope: but we will walk after our own devices, and we will every one do the imagination of his evil heart. Jeremiah 18:12 (King James Version)

~

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 5:24 (King James Version)

Love, Your Brother Joe

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Good post Fresno,  but I'm wondering,  are you implying that my words in the post I quoted are those of a false prophet? :)

I'm trying to hope in the mercy of God that not every aboriginal went to hell before Europeans arrived. 

Either they were evangelized after their death or they went to hell.

I'm choosing to hope in the infinite love of God outdoing us humans in mercy and justice for those who didn't know any better. 

1 Peter 4:6 
For to this end the gospel was proclaimed even to the dead, 

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I like it. Simple to the point. It breaks down what we already know further to simply say...to reject the many is actually to reject the one...

 

 

-Chal

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Romans 1:18 thru 23 (LB)

But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, evil men who push away the truth from them. For the truth about God is known to them instinctively; God has put this knowledge in their hearts. Since earliest times men have seen the earth and sky and all God made, and have known of his existence and great eternal power. So they will have no excuse when they stand before God at Judgment Day.

Yes, they knew about him all right, but they wouldn’t admit it or worship him or even thank him for all his daily care. And after a while they began to think up silly ideas of what God was like and what he wanted them to do. The result was that their foolish minds became dark and confused. Claiming themselves to be wise without God, they became utter fools instead. And then, instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they took wood and stone and made idols for themselves, carving them to look like mere birds and animals and snakes and puny men.

They will be judged on what they do know, NOT on what they do not know. What those people you are speaking of did know, is that there is a living God. God made this fact known to them by what men could see around them, meaning all of creation. But those who refused to acknowledge him are lost, based on this fact. NOT on the fact that they didn't get to hear the gospel.

 

Romans 2:15 expands on this further.

He will punish sin wherever it is found. He will punish the heathen when they sin, even though they never had God’s written laws, for down in their hearts they know right from wrong. God’s laws are written within them; their own conscience accuses them, or sometimes excuses them.

Spiderman, you may not like it, but it is what it is. There is no second chance for them to change their minds after death. They will be judged because even though they didn't know about Jesus, they did know about God's presence, and did have a moral code that they knew they were breaking; but chose to exchange what they knew to be the truth, for a lie.

The bible says all are without excuse, NOT because they didn't hear the gospel, but because they had sinned. The bible says All have sinned. And it is sin that separates us from God. Not ignorance.

 

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