TrevorL Posted April 20, 2016 Group: Non-Trinitarian Followers: 5 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 308 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 139 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/13/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/14/1944 Share Posted April 20, 2016 (edited) Greetings Ezra and Greetings again Marilyn C, 13 hours ago, Ezra said: The final world ruler will be A JEW, not a Gentile, although he may come out of a Gentile nation. 2 Thessalonians states that he will sit in the Temple of God, and claim that he is God. Only a Jew will have access to the future third Temple, and it is the God of the Hebrews whom he will blaspheme. There is a danger for those holding this view in that some of those who survive Armageddon will unite with the Anti-Christ, that is the Papacy and oppose Christ when he begins to reign as King upon the throne of David in Jerusalem and when he builds the Temple as prophesied in Ezekiel 40-48. 5 hours ago, Marilyn C said: So can you clarify for me your view, please Trevor? Who do you see are the `feet & toes?` And what scripture/s back that view? Briefly as an overview, the Roman Empire started to decline and fall, a phrase used by Gibbon, or as Daniel states the Kingdom of Rome would be divided. Part of this process was as a result of the invasion by various tribes. A possible list of some of the states or kingdoms established on the ruins of the Western Roman Kingdomas a result of this process were by the Huns AD 356, Vandals AD 407, Visigoths AD 378, Burgundians AD 407, Gepidae AD 378, Franks AD 407, Lombards AD 483, Suevi AD 407, Alani AD 356, Bavarians AD 488. In AD 476 Rome was occupied by the Goths, and the Western Empire fell. These invasions represent the clay part of the feet and toes, while the iron represents the Roman aspects of these kingdoms. Since that time to the present there have been many changes, but there has not been one united kingdom, but a number of nation states, ruled by a number of rulers. Both Napoleon and Hitler failed to unite Europe. The little horn on the 4th beast of Daniel 7 speaks of the rise of the Papacy and this power will be the Anti-Christ at the return of Christ. Daniel 7 speaks mainly of the Western part of the Roman Empire, while Daniel 8 speaks mainly of the Eastern part of the Roman Empire. Kind regards Trevor Edited April 20, 2016 by TrevorL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted April 20, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 266 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,197 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,495 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Author Share Posted April 20, 2016 (edited) 7 minutes ago, TrevorL said: Greetings Ezra and Greetings again Marilyn C, There is a danger for those holding this view in that some of those who survive Armageddon will unite with the Anti-Christ, that is the Papacy and oppose Christ when he begins to reign as King upon the throne of David in Jerusalem and when builds the Temple as prophesied in Ezekiel 40-48. Briefly as an overview, the Roman Empire started to decline and fall, a phrase used by Gibbon, or as Daniel states the Kingdom of Rome would be divided. Part of this process was as a result of the invasion by various tribes. A possible list of some of the states or kingdoms established on the ruins of the Western Roman Kingdomas a result of this process were by the Huns AD 356, Vandals AD 407, Visigoths AD 378, Burgundians AD 407, Gepidae AD 378, Franks AD 407, Lombards AD 483, Suevi AD 407, Alani AD 356, Bavarians AD 488. In AD 476 Rome was occupied by the Goths, and the Western Empire fell. These invasions represent the clay part of the feet and toes, while the iron represents the Roman aspects of these kingdoms. Since that time to the present there have been many changes, but there has not been one united kingdom, but a number of nation states, ruled by a number of rulers. Both Napoleon and Hitler failed to unite Europe. The little horn on the 4th beast of Daniel 7 speaks of the rise of the Papacy and this power will be the Anti-Christ at the return of Christ. Daniel 7 speaks mainly of the Western part of the Roman Empire, while Daniel 8 speaks mainly of the Eastern part of the Roman Empire. Kind regards Trevor Hi TrevorL, Thank you for that detail of history & telling me your view. Now I see the `legs` = Rome & the `iron` = strong, (as strong as iron.. Dan. 2: 40) That doesn`t say that Rome is `iron.` The word `iron,` is a description of the kingdom & NOT the NAME of the kingdom. All the best, Marilyn. Edited April 20, 2016 by Marilyn C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted April 20, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted April 20, 2016 9 hours ago, Marilyn C said: Also, remember Luke 21: 24? `And Jerusalem will be trampled by GENTILES until the times of the GENTILES are fulfilled.` (Luke 21: 24) Marilyn. Good point Marilyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted April 20, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 266 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,197 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,495 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Author Share Posted April 20, 2016 Thanks Last Daze. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevorL Posted April 21, 2016 Group: Non-Trinitarian Followers: 5 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 308 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 139 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/13/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/14/1944 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Greetings again Marilyn C, On 20/04/2016 at 1:56 PM, Marilyn C said: I still do not see how you get from the legs = Rome, to the `feet & toes` = EU etc. What makes you connect the two? I will let Ezra answer for himself, but from my perspective the legs of iron together with the feet and toes of clay and iron in Daniel 2 find their equivalent in the fourth beast of Daniel 7. Daniel 2 and Daniel 7 in their own way highlight different aspects of the era from the start of the Roman Empire until the Second Coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. This very long era includes Pagan Rome, early "Christian" Rome, and also other times including the Holy Roman Empire, and including our present era. A lot of explanation would be required to explain the various aspects of the beast in the Book of Revelation, but again it is the 4th beast, the Roman beast shown at various times and having different phases, such as pagan, "Christian" and Holy Roman Empire, and the present and future phase. Kind regards Trevor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted April 21, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted April 21, 2016 On 20/04/2016 at 9:56 PM, Marilyn C said: I still do not see how you get from the legs = Rome, to the `feet & toes` = EU etc. Marilyn, It is really quite simple. The great image represents the empires which controlled the Mediterranean region (and Europe) since the rise of Babylon. Babylon (head of gold) was replaced by Medo-Persia (arms and chest of silver) , which was replaced by Graeco-Macedonia (belly and thighs of brass) , which was replaced by Rome (legs of iron). Rome disintegrated, but the Holy Roman Empire came into existence and remained in place until the early 19th century. Then the European Union (originally the European Common Market) came into existence, and continues to exist. Some nations are strong, others are very weak (mixture of iron and clay). The ten nations ("kingdoms") connected to the Antichrist will come out of the EU and also be strongly influenced by the RCC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted April 21, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted April 21, 2016 1 hour ago, Ezra said: Marilyn, It is really quite simple. The great image represents the empires which controlled the Mediterranean region (and Europe) since the rise of Babylon. Babylon (head of gold) was replaced by Medo-Persia (arms and chest of silver) , which was replaced by Graeco-Macedonia (belly and thighs of brass) , which was replaced by Rome (legs of iron). Rome disintegrated, but the Holy Roman Empire came into existence and remained in place until the early 19th century. Then the European Union (originally the European Common Market) came into existence, and continues to exist. Some nations are strong, others are very weak (mixture of iron and clay). The ten nations ("kingdoms") connected to the Antichrist will come out of the EU and also be strongly influenced by the RCC. Or, the link between Rome and the feet of iron and clay could be that they are both spawned by the same evil angel prince. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted April 23, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 266 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,197 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,495 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Author Share Posted April 23, 2016 On 21/04/2016 at 4:49 AM, Last Daze said: Or, the link between Rome and the feet of iron and clay could be that they are both spawned by the same evil angel prince. Hi Last Daze, Yes we know that the whole world lies under the sway of the evil one & his demonic angels, however with regard to the Great Image, God is showing man`s World Rulership through great empires. Marilyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted April 23, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 266 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,197 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,495 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Author Share Posted April 23, 2016 On 21/04/2016 at 2:51 PM, TrevorL said: Greetings again Marilyn C, I will let Ezra answer for himself, but from my perspective the legs of iron together with the feet and toes of clay and iron in Daniel 2 find their equivalent in the fourth beast of Daniel 7. Daniel 2 and Daniel 7 in their own way highlight different aspects of the era from the start of the Roman Empire until the Second Coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. This very long era includes Pagan Rome, early "Christian" Rome, and also other times including the Holy Roman Empire, and including our present era. A lot of explanation would be required to explain the various aspects of the beast in the Book of Revelation, but again it is the 4th beast, the Roman beast shown at various times and having different phases, such as pagan, "Christian" and Holy Roman Empire, and the present and future phase. Kind regards Trevor Hi TrevorL, I see what you are saying, however I disagree & will write the details in a further comment to you & Ezra. Suffice to say here, that I would like to discuss Daniel 7 on another thread & hope you will be part of that. Marilyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted April 23, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 266 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,197 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,495 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Author Share Posted April 23, 2016 On 21/04/2016 at 3:45 AM, Ezra said: Marilyn, It is really quite simple. The great image represents the empires which controlled the Mediterranean region (and Europe) since the rise of Babylon. Babylon (head of gold) was replaced by Medo-Persia (arms and chest of silver) , which was replaced by Graeco-Macedonia (belly and thighs of brass) , which was replaced by Rome (legs of iron). Rome disintegrated, but the Holy Roman Empire came into existence and remained in place until the early 19th century. Then the European Union (originally the European Common Market) came into existence, and continues to exist. Some nations are strong, others are very weak (mixture of iron and clay). The ten nations ("kingdoms") connected to the Antichrist will come out of the EU and also be strongly influenced by the RCC. Hi Ezra & TrevorL, As you both think similar I will answer you both here. Firstly let me thank you both for engaging in this important discussion. You have both been polite & answered, as I have asked questions, which I appreciate. It also helps those reading to understand the thought processes of those holding a certain view. Now I would like to sum up what I see so far. God has given us the Great Image as an overview of the Gentile World powers down through history. When He gave the dream to king Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon, the other kingdoms, (empires of nations) had not arisen, so God is actually foretelling the king, Daniel & others what great world rulers were to come. From our view looking back over history we can see most of these Gentile world rulers, for who they were. And God actually tells us each one in His word. The Head – God tells us that is Babylon. `you are this head.....Nebuchadnezzar.` (Dan. 2: 38) The Chest & Arms – God tells us that is the Medes & Persians. `Your kingdom has been divided & given to the Medes & Persians.`(Dan. 5: 28) The Belly & Thighs – God tells us that is Greece. `the male goat is the kingdom of Greece.`(Dan. 8: 21) The Legs – God tells us that is Rome. `And it came to pass in those days that a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be registered.` (Luke 2: 1) The Feet & Toes – God tells us that is ......................................... (........) Now if the `Feet & Toes,` the divided kingdom, is the Revived Roman Empire, the European Union, then we would need God to have explained that in His word. However there has been NO scripture given to support this theory except the symbol itself. And we know that that is NOT a true basis for a doctrine. Note, however, God has actually written in His word who the `feet & toes` are. Marilyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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