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conviction or shaming


seajules

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ok here goes, I finally have the nerve to bring this up.  When I first was saved I felt a peace like Ive never felt. Then shortly after it felt like I was hurled into this terrifying shame by "I don't know what".  I was almost frozen emotionally and was SURE God didn't want me . A few pretty terrifying, unexplainable things were happening in my life...my family ( who aren't Christian btw) saw also. I was threatened and had HORRIBLE things sent to me, hacks into accounts ect ect.  I tried to keep praying, reading the Bible. Then I tried fighting back on my own. not a good idea at all.

The Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin right? at the time I was so confused and had a fear Id blasphemed the Holy Spirit. I don't ever want to feel that kind of hate again. Im thinking now this was the enemy.  When I feel nudged to stay away from bad things and Im drawn to God...is that the Holy Spirit?

The few years before I was saved Id slowly drifted away...was around a lot of pagan things, thought I was being "open minded" the" we are all one"/ Im nature thing. ugh!  Then at one point I did walk away from God and listened to "whatever" was out there.

Could I have brought all this one by getting involved with that awful stuff. It was all a false lure, I felt this kind of weird freeing power...then it kept going down hill until I was in this miserable bondage.

I kept praying, at one point I couldnt even form a prayer and read that God teaches us to pray by saying the Lords prayer...so that's what I did. I also read the Bible.  All the bad stuff did finally go away.

Sorry for rambling...I know Im all over the place trying to explain it...I guess my question is....what IS the Holy Spirit?

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14 minutes ago, seajules said:

ok here goes, I finally have the nerve to bring this up.  When I first was saved I felt a peace like Ive never felt. Then shortly after it felt like I was hurled into this terrifying shame by "I don't know what".  I was almost frozen emotionally and was SURE God didn't want me . A few pretty terrifying, unexplainable things were happening in my life...my family ( who aren't Christian btw) saw also. I was threatened and had HORRIBLE things sent to me, hacks into accounts ect ect.  I tried to keep praying, reading the Bible. Then I tried fighting back on my own. not a good idea at all.

The Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin right? at the time I was so confused and had a fear Id blasphemed the Holy Spirit. I don't ever want to feel that kind of hate again. Im thinking now this was the enemy.  When I feel nudged to stay away from bad things and Im drawn to God...is that the Holy Spirit?

The few years before I was saved Id slowly drifted away...was around a lot of pagan things, thought I was being "open minded" the" we are all one"/ Im nature thing. ugh!  Then at one point I did walk away from God and listened to "whatever" was out there.

Could I have brought all this one by getting involved with that awful stuff. It was all a false lure, I felt this kind of weird freeing power...then it kept going down hill until I was in this miserable bondage.

I kept praying, at one point I couldnt even form a prayer and read that God teaches us to pray by saying the Lords prayer...so that's what I did. I also read the Bible.  All the bad stuff did finally go away.

Sorry for rambling...I know Im all over the place trying to explain it...I guess my question is....what IS the Holy Spirit?

I can totally relate, seajules.  When I was first saved the enemy threw everything he had at me, literally!  I was in FIVE auto accidents in the first three years, one of which broke my leg, had a huge rock hit my brand new car's windshied, just out of nowhere, had bad dreams and saw a demon right here in this room in my house.  But, like you, I persevered and I have no fear of that stuff anymore because my Lord lives HERE.  Make a habit of rebuking unclean spirits who may hang around in the name of Jesus also.  Don't worry; satan has no power over you if Jesus is in you. 

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Hi Seajules,

I don't think there is any one answer to your question because the presence of the Holy Spirit in each of our lives is going to be a different experience, and I don't think that if we took all of our experiences and everything written about Him in the Bible, we would still be able to understand the infinite nature of the Holy Spirit.  

So, I am going to give you my experience with the Holy Spirit.  

To me Isaiah 42:16 describes my experience

"I will lead the blind by a way they did not know; I will guide them on paths they have not known. I will turn darkness to light in front of them and rough places into level ground. This is what I will do for them, and I will not forsake them"  

So, I am the blind that He leads by a way that is unknown, which could be represented by the rapidly changing world we live in today.  Our experience as Christians today is something that is unknown, unpredictable, dark.  But somehow, darkness turns to light and rough places are made into level ground for me.  

This is what He does for me even when I have struggled a lot with fear and confusion.  I used to go to church every week wondering if I was this close to be rejected by God, and I would get there and tell myself "there is only one way to find out," and get out of my car and go to church.  

I did the same thing when I was battling over whether to read my Bible when my pain made me feel that I had not been forgiven of sin.  I would take a deep breath and say, "there is only one way to find out," and read my Bible like a little blind mouse.  

It has been many years since I have had to go about persevering in my walk with Christ this way, but I will never forget that this is who I am.  This is how I got where I am today and my major weaknesses have my greatest strengths.  

" But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me," (2 Corinthians 12:9).  
 

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2 hours ago, seajules said:

Sorry for rambling...I know Im all over the place trying to explain it...I guess my question is....what IS the Holy Spirit?

seajules

The Holy Spirit is "The Spirit of Truth".

The Spirit of Truth is found in the scriptures.  The more we feed on this truth, the better "armed" we become when fighting our adversary.  The truth is our weapon, and it gives us the knowledge to know the difference between good and evil, nourishing our spirit so that it can grow healthy in the wisdom of understanding our God.  God is a spirit, so the words he speaks is spirit.  The spirit in his words is "alive", because it's a "living word" that gives life,... not a dead empty word with no substance.  Whatever comes out of God's mouth is "truth", and if we feed on his truth, he dwells in us, because his spirit we have taken in.  Make sense?

Man has a different spirit, the spirit of the flesh.  The spirit of the flesh only wants what can satisfy the flesh.  God wants us to have his spirit which can only come from him through his Word.  The spirit of truth is in his Word, and this is the holy spirit, or sometimes called the holy ghost, it's that same "Spirit of Truth", which can only come from God.

To blaspheme the holy spirit, we have to have the whole truth in the first place.  The fallen angels are a good example of those that committed blasphemy.  They knew God, were in heaven with him, and yet preached a lie.  They will never be forgiven.   If we purposely lead someone into error or deceive like the fallen angels did, knowing the real truth, we commit this crime.  If we make simple mistakes because the flesh is weak, we are not guilty of blaspheming the holy spirit, we just have the spirit of the flesh for that time still lingering, and it is something different not leading to death, it can be repented on.

 

Here are some scriptures on the Spirit of truth which describes the Holy Spirit.  I love these scriptures, and when I understood exactly what the Holy Spirit is, I rejoiced in the Lord even more.  I hope you do too.  Now I know the Holy Spirit, is not just a "feeling" or something that just sweeps over us and then leaves, no the Holy Spirit is our teacher which helps us to understand all those scriptures which were once confusing, a bit at a time.

 John 14:17   Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

 John 15:26   But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 14:26   But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

 John 16:13   Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

 1 John 4:6   We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

 

Edited by Sister
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What is the Holy Spirit?

The Spirit of God that moves men to do acts of righteousness that cause others to see and know their sin.

Luk 5:8 When Simon Peter saw it, he fell down at Jesus' knees, saying, Depart from me; for I am a sinful man, O Lord.

Conviction comes from seeing others do that which is right moreso than from people saying what is right but speaking by the Holy Spirit may convict. 

Luk 13:15 The Lord then answered him, and said, Thou hypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or his ass from the stall, and leadhim away to watering?

Luk 13:16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?

Luk 13:17 And when he had said these things, all his adversaries were ashamed: and all the people rejoiced for all the glorious things that were done by him.

Again he spoke but it was of the works he had done that were righteous.

1Co 14:24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or oneunlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:

Prophesying about the wonderful works of God by the Holy Spirit convicts the hearers.  For this cause, when I am given the opportunity to share how pitifully sinful I was before Christ and of the total heart transformation he preformed in me, I do not hesitate.  Those who are as I once was are without excuse after I testify of the mighty works wroght in me by God.  Therefore I spend my time amongst drunks and theives professing Christ in me and deliverance from sinful pleasures of the flesh that I was given over unto.

The fear of God IS the beginning of wisdom and knowledge.  Fear therefore and depart from sin or face being given by God unto a reprobate mind to do all kinds of evil.  God is not mocked indeed!  I tempted the Lord and found him to faithfully execute judgment against my wilful transgressions.  

Do not forget the words of the writer of Hebrews who taught us that the beginning is rough but gets better over time. 

Heb 10:32But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions

Strive for oneness with God in the Spirit and grow in grace and truth.  I have found that God does not make to hard of terms for those who truly seek to please him but the rod is hard when we get wilful.  Peace!

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Thanks for all the responses. They are all very helpful.

So the Holy Spirit is how God resides in me since I was saved... I was confused for awhile because of all the shame and guilt I was feeling and I didn't know of enough of Gods word to fight back with it.I just know i dont ever want to feel that kind of hate again.  The enemy wants us to feel not worthy of God or anything.  I KNEW during that time I needed a savior. I know there is a spiritual realm, I could never not know it now. The more I pray and read the Bible the more Im led to truth and peace.

 

I hear or read people trying to dismantle the Bible and all it says  and I cant understand their motives. There is so much power in Gods word. Discuss it yes, ask questions, disagree...but I dont see how people can disregard it or mock it.

 

 "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me," (2 Corinthians 12:9).  

The Lord is near to all who call on him,
to all who call on him in truth. (Psalm 145 :18)

 
 


 

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Blessings seajules

   Welcome to Worthy,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"WHAT" is the Holy Spirit???? HE is a WHO,not a "what"    The Holy Spirit is the third person of the GodHead Triune,,,,,,GOD,the FATHER,,,,,GOD,the SON,,,,,,GOD,the HOLY SPIRIT

Since you say you have been around a lot of  pagan "things"I am going to think it is safe to say you do know EXACTLY what is going on,,,,,of course it is the enemy,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"horrible""awful""terrible""terrifying" are NOT attributes of God,,,,,,,Confusion is not of God,,,,,,, none of the things you described are ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,neither is shame or guilt,,,,,,The Holy Spirit CONVICTS the heart,not scares it to death.......

I encourage you to seek a Relationship with the Lord,He Comforts,He fills you will His Love,Peace & Joy,,,,,,read His Word & He Will Reveal Himself to you if you are earnestly asking,,,,,,remember,it is not just "a book" it is the LIVING WORD,our Redeemer Lives & by the Power of His Holy Spirit we are indwelled                                                                                     With love-in Christ,Kwik

 

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It is important to be able to recognize the difference between the conviction of the Holy Spirit and misapplied guilt or shame.

Learning this is a lifetime experience, getting to know the difference between useless hurt and genuine help from the Lord.

I know that the Lord does not intend to shame me, though sometimes I feel it, and I feel a resistance to step back from pursuing a misguided course of action or thought.

But "The goodness of God leads us to repentance." Conviction from the Holy Ghost comes from seeing a contrast between the kindness and patience of Christ and our ridiculous ways of handling (what we think are) adverse situations.

The Lord wants us to be empowered and secure, and with His conviction always comes the offer of a much better way, it does not leave us without any solution like home-made guilt does.

What is home-made guilt? It is what we perceive we should be feeling, and it comes from having a cycle of abuse within us created by sin.

The devil knows that humans can be conned into abusing themselves very easily, and it is far more efficient to cause them to do it, and to let them go, than to have to be there at every moment to tempt and annoy them, like he had to do with our faithful friend Jesus. We have no idea of what He endured. 

Pride begets powerlessness, which begets the desperate need to be in charge of self improvement - including what we think are the convictions of a Christian outlook. Did you hear that?

We make up a system of morality and guilt and we become lord of our lives, but we don't know that we are telling God what to think of us, and how to deal with us. We prefer to be the ones administering what we think is an apt punishment for our sins, and to reward ourselves by assurances of salvation when we think it is due.

Here are some classic examples; waiting for the main part of feeling guilty or sinning to be over and or diminished enough, before coming to the Lord for forgiveness. Not sharing our thoughts with the Lord until we are in the "holy zone" of thoughts again. Indulging in a deep sense of loss and rejection of the Lord, as if we were not lost in the first place by the very fact that we are sinners, for which Christ purchased free salvation ! Going to a religious meeting and allowing ourselves to get a spiritual high- which does not even last until Monday morning. Pretending to leave the Lord and getting lost in the world. 

Do you recognize all these symptoms? These are inventions supported by our beliefs and religious systems. And there are many other ways that we think we can remain in control of our 'spiritual journey.' But is it really the path of faith and knowledge or is it pride and ignorance?

Religions have many sayings and Bible verses to encourage cycles of self abuse, using the following techniques - sensationalism through great sermons, music, songs shouting and mania. Passive aggressive Christianity - the dishonest life, the fake acceptance of others, not swearing but thinking curses, judging self and others by behavior rather than through humanity, histrionic 'love' which some believe is "witnessing."  Unbearable burdens such as guilt, unspoken agendas of behavior within a church group, misdirected feelings and ideas of romance, doctrines of cruelty such as eternal damnation and torture in hell fire. Ill defined and ambiguous moralities are a form of cruelty.

When cycles of spiritual self abuse begin to wear out, all the devil needs to do is slap us once and we are done.

We end up defining what is sin in our lives, rather than knowing that we are totally undone so far as any right doing and proper self assessment is concerned. We do not know what righteousness is. We imagine that we are making progress as Christians, but in fact we have not changed, we just become more sophisticated in our self management.

We need a complete transformation of heart and mind, and Jesus our High Priest is committed to this work for us.

Christ only knows our condition, Christ only can help, Christ knows we cannot be found meddling in this work, but we have to leave it to Him alone. This means a daily surrender to His judgement and correction of us. We feel convicted that we have not reacted in the calm and rational way to something which we know gets us off track. Immediately we confess that wrong and ask Him to remove it from our lives. We do not go on a pilgrimage and neither do we ignore what was confronted. We leave it right there and then in the hand of the High Priest, who takes it and burns it up.

But what if we find the same thing keeps coming up? Does this mean that what happened before did not work? No, we now will be faced with the same situation over and over again until there is not a single response left. Jesus not only wants us to conquer through His work, but wants us to be "more than conquerors." 

Today we are more than conquerors in Christ. 

 

 

 

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that was great KAN, thank you for the response, I will take notes and digest this ,

blessings to you . shalom

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8 minutes ago, SINNERSAVED said:

that was great KAN, thank you for the response, I will take notes and digest this ,

blessings to you . shalom

Bless you, this is all new to me too.

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