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Women to keep silence in church.


HAZARD

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When paul said for women to "keep silence in the church" he was not speaking of women prophesying or praying, but he referred to asking their husbands certain things at church.

He said, "If they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home" and not in the church (1 Cor. 14:34-35). But that they could speak and prophecy and pray in church is clear from 1 Cor. 11:4; 14:3-4, 23-26; and Acts 2:16-21.

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Question: "Do women have to remain silent in church?"

Answer:
First Corinthians 14:33–35 states, “As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.” At first glance, this seems to be a blanket command that women are never allowed to speak at all in the church. However, earlier in the same epistle (1 Corinthians 11:5), Paul mentions women’s praying and prophesying as allowable activities, and we know that older women are to teach younger women (Titus 2:4). Therefore, 1 Corinthians 14:33–35 must not be an absolute command for women to always be silent in church.

The concern of 1 Corinthians 14, and much of the epistle, is order and structure in the church. The Corinthian church was noted for the chaos and lack of order rampant in that assembly (verse 33). It is interesting that no elders or pastors are mentioned in the book, and the prophets who were there were not exercising control (see verses 29, 32, 37). Everyone in the church service was participating with whatever expression they desired, whenever they desired. As a result, those with the gift of tongues were speaking simultaneously, those with a revelation from God were shouting out randomly, and no one was concerned with interpreting what was being said, even if what was said could be heard above the din. The meetings quickly descended into chaos.

Part of the confusion in the Corinthian church included women speaking in tongues and prophesying; these women were taking the lead in the services instead of being submissive to the authorities in the church (see 1 Timothy 2:11–15). Apparently, certain women in the Corinthian church were also out of order in disruptively asking questions during the already chaotic services. God’s instruction through Paul is that the women should “keep silent in the churches” (1 Corinthians 14:34); the immediate context is prophesying (verses 29–33), and the broader context would include tongues-speaking (verses 27–28).This rule is for “all the congregations of the saints” (verse 33), not just for Corinth. If anyone truly has the gift of prophecy, he or she will recognize the apostle Paul’s authority in this matter (verses 36–38).

The command of 1 Corinthians 14:34 is not that women be absolutely silent in the church all the time. It is only saying that women should not participate in the giving of prophecy, the speaking of tongues, or the interpreting of tongues in the general assembly. These are teaching functions in the church and are thus authoritative; such roles are reserved for men (see 1 Timothy 2:11–12).

Women can take many roles in the church and are “co-workers” in the ministry (Philippians 4:3). The one restriction is that they do not assume a role of spiritual authority over adult men.

http://www.gotquestions.org/women-silent-church.html

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for todays economy I think preaching and teaching should be to children and women-- I personally do think tongues or prophecy(words of knowledge) are still active

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Women aren’t the only ones to keep silent in the church according to Paul and 1 Corinthians 14.

The church at Corinth was a hot mess. Paul spends the first 10 chapters giving them a smack upside the head for their issues with their:

  • “Preacher worship” and divisiveness
  • Misunderstanding of spirituality
  • Acceptance of sexual immorality
  • Immaturity
  • Loss of rewards
  • Judging each other
  • Lack of discipline
  • Lack of purity

Paul does stop midstream and give them some solutions.  And then Paul answers some of their questions about marriage, divorce, being celibate, and eating meat sacrificed to pagan idols.

That’s all the first 10 chapters.

Next, in chapters 11-14, Paul addresses their problems in their worship services.

  • Women prophesying and praying in corporate worship should have a head covering
  • The church abusing the Lord’s Supper
  • Their misunderstanding of spiritual gifts
  • The overarching importance of love
  • Their misuse of tongues and prophesy in the worship service

In chapter 14, Paul says that:

  • Only two or at the most three people should speak in tongues at church and then only if there is an interpreter
  • If there was NO interpreter, Paul says that the person speaking in tongues should “keep silent”
  • Only two or at the most three people should prophesy and the rest of the congregation should evaluate the prophesy
  • If someone has a revelation and needs to speak, the first person should “keep silent”. Paul says that God is a God of order.


Next, Paul says that women should be silent. Well, he already said in chapter 11 that they could prophesy and pray in public. I think that the “silent” part fits with the above two “keep silent” issues.



I feel that Paul is possibly talking about disruptive speaking. The church at Corinth has SO MANY problems. :( Women talking out loud and asking questions could have been one of them. This WHOLE chapter is about maintaining order when tongues and prophesy and questions are going on in the church – not about forbidding women to speak.

Edited by Jayne
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On May 8, 2016 at 3:23 PM, HAZARD said:

When paul said for women to "keep silence in the church" he was not speaking of women prophesying or praying, but he referred to asking their husbands certain things at church.

He said, "If they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home" and not in the church (1 Cor. 14:34-35). But that they could speak and prophecy and pray in church is clear from 1 Cor. 11:4; 14:3-4, 23-26; and Acts 2:16-21.

 

1Co 11:5 WEB But every woman praying or prophesying with her head uncovered dishonors her head. For it is one and the same thing as if she were shaved.

1Co 11:6  For if a woman is not covered, let her hair also be cut off. But if it is shameful for a woman to have her hair cut off or be shaved, let her be covered.  1Co 11:15  But if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her, for her hair is given to her for a covering.

Zohiates: Greek Doxa(II) In the NT, spoken also of that which excites admiration or to which honor is ascribed.   (A) Of external conditions meaning dignity, splendor, glory (Heb 2:7 quoted from Psa 8:5; 1Pe 1:24). By metonymy that which reflects, expresses or exhibits dignity (1Co 11:7).

The point being, it was the custom for women to pray and prophecy in church.   However, those women who pray or prophecy need to be in submission to authority--toward church leadership during a worship service and to their husbands at all times.  Having  long hair is a symbol of her splendor and dignity; but having their heads covered or their hair cut short are symbols of humility, and of coming under the authorities God has placed over them.  It was a custom specific to their culture since women's heads were shaved when they served their duty as temple prostitutes so it would be a dishonor to their husbands to have their heads shaved or their hair short.  Today we have no such custom.  But people often admire a woman's long hair and having short hair is rarely so admired.  

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Great stuff Jayne,,,,,

Quote

I feel that Paul is possibly talking about disruptive speaking. The church at Corinth has SO MANY problems. :( Women talking out loud and asking questions could have been one of them. This WHOLE chapter is about maintaining order when tongues and prophesy and questions are going on in the church – not about forbidding women to speak.

Corinth's church  did have many issues that Paul addressed specifically for them........                             With love-in Christ,Kwik

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On 5/8/2016 at 11:23 PM, HAZARD said:

When paul said for women to "keep silence in the church" he was not speaking of women prophesying or praying, but he referred to asking their husbands certain things at church.

He said, "If they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home" and not in the church (1 Cor. 14:34-35). But that they could speak and prophecy and pray in church is clear from 1 Cor. 11:4; 14:3-4, 23-26; and Acts 2:16-21.

That is not all that Paul says in 1 Cor 14:34-35, what he actually says is: Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.

It is interesting to consider what 'law' he is referring to as well, I would suggest that it is Gen 2:18-24 which addresses the roles of husbands and wives, wives are to look to their husbands for leadership - that is the thrust of these verses. 

However we cannot take 14:3-4 or 23-25 to be supportive of women taking on teaching roles within the church without inserting our own assumptions within into the text. 

However the 1 Tim 2:8-15 passage is also important:

8 I desire therefore that the men pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting; 9 in like manner also, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing, 10 but, which is proper for women professing godliness, with good works. 11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. 12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. 15 Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control. (NKJ)

Notice first of all that Paul is not addressing Husbands and wives in this passage, he is addressing men and women, unless of course we wish to suggest that Paul only desired married men to pray and married women to dress modestly?  

Secondly, it is interesting here to note that Paul doesn't saying anything in regards to women praying, instead he talks about how they dress - why is that? 

Thirdly he says clearly I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence and his reasoning is not that Woman was married to man, but that woman took on a leadership role she should not have had and led man astray (a sin for which that man retained responsibility)  

Now, unless Paul had changed his mind between the writing of these two letters we must find some way of reconciling of these two passages. One way is to try and claim that Paul is speaking only about husbands and wives in 1 Tim as well, however I am not comfortable with that on an exegetical basis, however if one turns to 1 Cor 11:5  we may ask where is the prophesying taking place? 

Notice that 11:1-16 form a separate subject to that which Paul begins to discuss in v17.  Now in giving these instructions I do not praise you, since you come together not for the better but for the worse. Why does he speak of 'when they come together' in v17 and v20 if they are already together for the subject he has just been addressing. My point being there is absolutely  no reason (except a presupposition one) to take 11:5 as referring to a church meeting. 

 

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Guest shiloh357

It is important to keep something in mind when reading epistles to individual congregations in the Bible.   Paul was writing to address specific issues in those congregations and a careful reading of the epistles bears that out.  

Corinth Christians had all kinds of problems stemming from their pagan background and because they were still living in the midst of the most pagan, the most immoral community in the world, they were trying to ascertain how they were to relate to their former way of life.  In his epistle to the Corinthians, Paul has to address getting drunk at the Lord's Supper (Communion).   This is because when the Corinthian believers were pagan, getting drunk was an act of worship to the pagan gods.  That was normal.  They had made the mistake of assuming that they could import that custom into their worship of God.   And Paul addressed that.   They had issues with men still wearing their hair in effeminate styles, long and wavy like they did when they were male prostitutes.  Paul addressed that issue as well.

But one must understand that the women in the pagan world served in pagan temples and just outside of Corinth, they're were women who were prophetesses up at the Oracle of Delphi.  They were used to speaking in a demonic tongue and giving out prophecies on a regular basis.    When they became believers, it was likely that Paul was addressing this issue, as well.  There was a tendency of new believers trying to mix their former pagan customs with their new faith in Jesus.  The Corinthians were really bad about doing that.

There are a lot of Christian men today, who see women as inferior to themselves view passages like this as, "women need to sit down and shut up."  That's not really what Paul was saying.   He was dealing with a cultural issue and gave instructions to address it in Corinth.   Paul did not want these former priestesses from Delphi trying to get up in a meeting and exercise their former pagan religious worship practices, thus corrupting the congregation in the process.

There is another discussion that Paul had with Timothy over the role of women in the Church and that is a separate issue from we have here in Corinthians.

 

 

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Guest Robert

That's the conclusion I came to as well, Shiloh. Paul was addressing a specific issue here in a cultural setting, and trying to keep something from starting that would have shipwrecked the Corinthian church. It would have been interesting to see the letters Paul had been responding to with his letters, but those are not available to us. God of course has His reasons for that, namely because He felt we didn't need them.

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Blessings Robert!

    Me too,I agree ,it is pretty clear when you keep focused in context & are mindful of who he is addressing.....Shiloh has said it very well,spot on!All too often we see the "smorgasbord" approach used to support personal interpretation (picking out verses of Scripture,one from here ,one from there)......I really think that is usually why some people have so many mis-understandings.....you simply cannot try to make the Word of God say what you want it to mean,it does not work that way

                                                                                                                                         With love-in Christ,Kwik

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