Christianity and Cults Throughout History

[SavedOnebyGrace]

The Basics Of Mormonism Article

ID: DM550 | By: Hank Hanegraaff

The saga of Mormonism began in 1820, when a young man named Joseph Smith, Jr., purportedly expe­rienced a spectacular vision. Two celestial personages appeared to him, claiming all existing churches were wrong, all their creeds were an abomination, and all their professors were corrupt.¹ These beings made it clear to Joseph that he had been chosen to restore, rather than reform a church that had disappeared from the face of the earth.

In 1823 the angel Moroni was said to have visited young Joseph and divulged the location of gold plates con­taining the “fullness of the ever­lasting gospel.” These plates — abridged by Moroni and his father, Mormon,² fourteen hundred years earlier — were written in “reformed Egyptian hieroglyphics.” Smith supposedly found, buried along with the plates, a pair of magi­cal eyeglasses³ that he used to trans­late the cryptic writing into English. The result was a new revelation called the Book of Mormon⁴ and a new religion called Mormonism.

Organizationally, Mormonism began when John the Baptist alleged­ly ordained Smith and Oliver Cowdery (a schoolteacher who assisted Smith by transcribing the inscriptions on the gold plates) to the Aaronic priesthood. Subsequent to the appearance of John the Baptist, the apostles Peter, James, and John were said to have conferred the Melchizedek priesthood and apostle­ship on Smith and Cowdery, giving them the authority to act on behalf of Jesus Christ in this last dispensation.⁵ On April 6, 1830, the Mormon church was officially launched.

Revelations in Mormonism are not relegated to personal appearances by angels like Moroni⁶ or apostles like Peter. However, the Mormon church claims three volumes of Scripture, or “standard works,” in addition to the Bible. The foremost of these revelations is the Book of Mormon, purportedly “the record of God’s dealings with the ancient inhabitants of the Americas” which “contains, as does the Bible, the fullness of the everlasting gospel.”⁷Mormons believe the prophet Ezekiel was talking about the Book of Mormon when he alluded to the stick of Joseph (Ezek. 37:16ff).⁸

How millions can take the Book of Mormon seriously is almost beyond comprehension. While Smith referred to it as “the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion,”⁹ its flaws run the gamut from the serious to the silly. In the category of serious we find that Ether 3:14 (“Behold, I am Jesus Christ, I am the Father and the Son”) is modalistic and militates against Trinitarian theology, while Alma 11:44 (“Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God”) is basi­cally consistent with the biblical doc­trine of the Trinity.

In the category of silly is the account in Alma 44 of a man who becomes irate after being scalped and stirs up his soldiers to fight “more powerfully.” And in Ether 15 we read of a man who struggles to catch his breath after having his head cut off. The Book of Mormon has now been altered over 4,000 times to compensate for Smith’s poor command of English, as well as for the numerous errors and incon­sistencies it presented.

Doctrine and Covenants — a compilation of alleged divine revela­tions given to the Mormon church — is equally problematic. Among the far-fetched revelations it has foisted on humanity is the doctrine of polygamy. It was not until the Mormons were threatened with exile that their president, Wilford Woodruff, received a revelation relegating polygamy to the afterlife.

The third extra-biblical revelation in the Mormon Canon — namely, the Pearl of Great Price — is no less troubling. It was used for years by Mormons to prevent African-Americans from entering their priest­hood and consequently from being exalted to godhood in the system’s celestial kingdom. Mormon prophet Brigham Young went so far as to declare that the reason “Negroes” have a “flat nose and black skin” is because God had put a curse on them.¹⁰ While these and other aberrations pose a serious threat to Mormon credibility, it is the organi­zation’s deviations from essential Christian doctrine which ultimately define it as a non-Christian cult. Major Mormon theological travesties begin with the denial of Christ’s deity. In fact, Christ, according to Mormon theology, has the dubious distinction of being Lucifer’s spirit brother. In addition, Mormonism denies:

• the doctrine of original sin, teach­ing instead that men and women are, in reality, gods in embryo;
• Christ’s preservation of His church, teaching instead that the true church vanished from the earth after the death of the apostles, and that Joseph Smith had to restore it with his “latter-day saints;”
• the Trinity, affirming instead that God the Father and Jesus have bodies of “flesh and bone,” that the Holy Spirit is “a personage of Spirit,”¹¹ and that the Trinity is pagan in origin;
• the inerrancy of Scripture, teaching instead that the Bible can be trusted only as far it is translated correctly;”¹²
• Christ was begotten by the Holy Ghost in His incarnation, teaching instead that God the Father sex with Mary,¹³ “instead letting any other man do it;”¹⁴
• the immutability of God, affirming instead that God was “perhaps once child, and mortal like we ourselves:’’¹⁵
• the biblical concept of hell, teaching that all can be rescued, except for “sons of perdition” — those who, like the author of this volume, are apostate Mormons.

Oath-taking is yet another probl­em with Mormonism. Temple Mormons, for example, once swore never to reveal their secret rituals on penalty that our throats be cut from ear to ear and our tongues torn out by their roots.” Although this and other violent oaths were altered during the first half of the twentieth century, and removed from the ritu­al just recently, they are an enduring reminder of the ferocious secrecy in which Mormon temple rituals are shrouded.

The “new and everlasting covenant” of plural marriage is per­haps the best example of Mormon equivocation. In 1890, under threat of exile to Mexico, Mormons officially abolished polygamy in the earthly realm. However, in secret temple ceremonies, Mormon males continue to be sealed to multiple wives — in the heavenly realm.¹⁶ Thus, the earthly practice of polygamy, publicly promoted by Brigham Young (who personally had 27 wives and 52 children), is now promised to those who attain the highest level of the celestial kingdom. Like their Heavenly Father, Mormon males may hope to one day, too, rule their own personal planets and enjoy endless, celestial sex with multiple goddess wives.

Even this cursory overview of Mormon history and theology should make it abundantly clear that while Mormons use Christian terminology, both the roots and fruits of their reli­gion are decidedly unbiblical. It is crucial that Christians learn to scale the Mormon language barrier. It is my prayer that, in the process, you will become so familiar with the truth that when counterfeits loom on the horizon you will be able to recognize them instantaneously.

— Hank Hanegraaff

· Adapted from the foreword to Decker’s Complete Handbook on Mormonism (Harvest House, 1995). Used by permission.

---

Notes:

1. The Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith — History 1:18-19.
2. According to Joseph Smith, the word Mormon “means, literally, more good.” Smith wrote that “mor” is simply a contraction of the word “more” and that “mon” is the Egyptian word for “good.” Quoted in Fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History: The Life of Joseph Smith the Mormon Prophet (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1945), 276. Cf. Joseph Smith, Jr. History of the Church, 7 vols. (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1978; reprint), 5:400.
3. Described as two stones in silver bows called the Urim and Thummim in the Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith — History 1:35; cf. v. 62.
4. The Book of Mormon contains an apocryphal account of the ancient inhabitants of the Americas. They were divided into three groups: the Jaredites, the Nephites, and the Lamanites. The Lamanites are purportedly the principal ancestors of the American Indians.
5. Doctrine and Covenants 27:12-13.
6. It should be noted that Moroni, for some inexplicable reason, did not achieve godhood, but had merely become a resurrected angel.
7. The Book of Mormon, introduction.
8. According to Mormonism, the “stick of Judah” is the Bible and the “stick of Joseph” the Book of Mormon. The joining of these “sticks” symbolizes the joining of the two writings.
9. Smith, History of the Church, 4:461. Cf. The Book of Mormon, intro­duction.
10. See, for example, Journal of Discourses, 7:290-91.
11. Doctrine and Covenants, 130:22.
12. 8th Article of Faith.
13. See Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 2d ed. (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1966), 547.
14. Brigham Young in Journal of Discourses, 4:218.
15. Orson Hyde in Journal of Discourses, 1:123.
16. Recent Mormon President Howard W. Hunter for example, was sealed to both of his wives, but not while both were living.

Source: http://www.equip.org/article/the-basics-of-mormonism/  from the Christian Research Institute.  Google Mormon Cult beliefs and you'll find a wealth of resources to learn more about the subject.

I regret voting for anyone who is a member of a cult.  It demonstrates a complete lack of disernment to the truth of God's word, and further demonstrates the demonic ability to deceive "so-called" intelligent and superficially religious people.

Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you.  [NIV, Matthew 24:4]
 

[SavedOnebyGrace]

From the Website GotQuestions: http://www.gotquestions.org/Jehovahs-Witnesses.html

 

Who are the Jehovah's Witnesses and what are their beliefs?

---

Answer: The sect known today as the Jehovah's Witnesses started out in Pennsylvania in 1870 as a Bible class led by Charles Taze Russell. Russell named his group the “Millennial Dawn Bible Study.” Charles T. Russell began writing a series of books he called “The Millennial Dawn,” which stretched to six volumes before his death and contained much of the theology Jehovah’s Witnesses now hold. After Russell's death in 1916, Judge J. F. Rutherford, Russell's friend and successor, wrote the seventh and final volume of the “Millennial Dawn” series, “The Finished Mystery,” in 1917. The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society was founded in 1886 and quickly became the vehicle through which the “Millennial Dawn” movement began distributing their views to others. The group was known as the “Russellites” until 1931 when, due to a split in the organization, it was renamed the “Jehovah’s Witnesses.” The group from which it split became known as the “Bible students.”

What do Jehovah’s Witnesses believe? Close scrutiny of their doctrinal position on such subjects as the deity of Christ, salvation, the Trinity, the Holy Spirit, and the atonement shows beyond a doubt that they do not hold to orthodox Christian positions on these subjects. Jehovah’s Witnesses believe Jesus is Michael the archangel, the highest created being. This contradicts many Scriptures which clearly declare Jesus to be God (John 1:1,14, 8:58, 10:30). Jehovah’s Witnesses believe salvation is obtained by a combination of faith, good works, and obedience. This contradicts countless scriptures which declare salvation to be received by grace through faith (John 3:16; Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5). Jehovah’s Witnesses reject the Trinity, believing Jesus to be a created being and the Holy Spirit to essentially be the inanimate power of God. Jehovah’s Witnesses reject the concept of Christ’s substitutionary atonement and instead hold to a ransom theory, that Jesus’ death was a ransom payment for Adam’s sin.

How do the Jehovah’s Witnesses justify these unbiblical doctrines? First, they claim that the church has corrupted the Bible over the centuries; thus, they have re-translated the Bible into what they call the New World Translation. The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society altered the text of the Bible to make it fit their false doctrine, rather than basing their doctrine on what the Bible actually teaches. The New World Translation has gone through numerous editions, as the Jehovah’s Witnesses discover more and more Scriptures that contradict their doctrines.

The Watchtower bases its beliefs and doctrines on the original and expanded teachings of Charles Taze Russell, Judge Joseph Franklin Rutherford, and their successors. The governing body of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is the only body in the cult that claims authority to interpret Scripture. In other words, what the governing body says concerning any scriptural passage is viewed as the last word, and independent thinking is strongly discouraged. This is in direct opposition to Paul's admonition to Timothy (and to us as well) to study to be approved by God, so that we need not be ashamed as we correctly handle the Word of God. This admonition, found in 2 Timothy 2:15, is a clear instruction from God to each of His children to be like the Berean Christians, who searched the Scriptures daily to see if the things they were being taught lined up with the Word.

There is probably no religious group that is more faithful than the Jehovah’s Witnesses at getting their message out. Unfortunately, the message is full of distortions, deceptions, and false doctrine. May God open the eyes of the Jehovah’s Witnesses to the truth of the gospel and the true teaching of God’s Word.

Recommended Resources: Reasoning from the Scriptures with the Jehovah's Witnesses, Updated and Expanded by Ron Rhodes.

We highly recommend Witnesses for Jesus for more information.

 

I would add to this list of recommended reading the late Walter Martin's book, Jehovah of the Watchtower, which can be found on Amazon.com.  The Facts on Jehovah Witnesses by John Ankerberg, John Weldon and Dillon Burroughs is another easy to read resource as is John Ankerberg's website, https://www.jashow.org/.

[SavedOnebyGrace]

There is an assault on Christian Fundamentals within the church, wolves in sheep's clothing to lead as many as possible away from the truth of the Gospel message.  These are but two examples.  Does anyone believe "Holy Laughter" is of God?

[other one]

51 minutes ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

There is an assault on Christian Fundamentals within the church, wolves in sheep's clothing to lead as many as possible away from the truth of the Gospel message.  These are but two examples.  Does anyone believe "Holy Laughter" is of God?

I never put down what people attribute to the Holy Spirit.....      so I wouldn't comment on it....   I don't believe I would participate though unless it wasn't voluntary.... I have experienced times with other things when the Holy Spirit just didn't give me the option.

[SavedOnebyGrace]

On Friday, May 20, 2016 at 0:38 PM, other one said:

I never put down what people attribute to the Holy Spirit.....      so I wouldn't comment on it....   I don't believe I would participate though unless it wasn't voluntary.... I have experienced times with other things when the Holy Spirit just didn't give me the option.

I understand your reluctance.  I am familiar with the teaching of a number of ministers who accept it as a move of the Holy Spirit.  I have watched the videos on YouTube and something in my spirit tells me that barking like a dog and howling, getting on all fours, etc., is not a move of the Holy Spirit.  That's all I got to say.

Actually, I should clarify.  I do not necessarily believe any of the spiritual gifts have ceased.  I believe the Holy Spirit is our helper and I rely upon His guidance.  While I no longer speak in tongues, I feel the presence of the Holy Spirit in a very tangible way.  Some days I don't know that I can go on without the constant presence of the Holy Spirit in my life.  I absolutely hate when I sin, however small, because I feel I've let the Holy Spirit down and/or grieved the Holy Spirit.

That being said, I do not believe everyone who says they have a word from God are truly hearing from God.  There are too many examples in my life to ignore.  I speak to God and He speaks to me.  I'm good with that.

[SavedOnebyGrace]

The Church of Scientology

20 reasons the Church of Scientology is a cult and a fraud

By Jeffrey Augustine

1. Cult: The hallmark of a cult is that one person — the cult leader — has all the power and complete control of the money. David Miscavige is a cult leader who has all the power and complete control of the money. This was true of founder L. Ron Hubbard when he was alive.

2. Cult: There are no internal checks and balances on David Miscavige’s power.

3. Fraud: David Miscavige was never elected by Scientologists to lead the Church of Scientology. Rather, Miscavige is a dictator who clawed his way to power in a series of purges.

4. Fraud: The form of Church governance represented to the IRS in Scientology’s 1023 application was a fraud. The Scientology boards and directors represented to the IRS are rubber stamps without any actual power.

5. Cult and Fraud: Scientology is a cult and a fraud because it lies to its own members and to the public about L. Ron Hubbard. See: 25 of the biggest lies told by L. Ron Hubbard and the Church of Scientology.

6. Cult and Fraud: The Church of Scientology runs an intelligence-gathering and Fair Game operation called the Office of Special Affairs (OSA). The purpose of OSA is to attack perceived Church enemies and engage in character assassination, smears, and to get people fired from their jobs. Because OSA is funded with tax exempt dollars it is a fraud upon the governments and taxpayers of all nations where OSA operates.

7. Fraud: The Sea Org is a fraud on its face because it does not actually exist. Per David Miscavige’s attorney Wallace Jefferson in his 2014 Writ of Mandamus, the Sea Org cannot have any members or volunteers and has no physical or legal existence:

“Plaintiff asserts that Mr. Miscavige exercised control because he leads the Sea Organization, a religious order within Scientology. But the ‘Sea Org’ is not a corporate entity; it has no physical or legal existence. It is not incorporated or established pursuant to legal formalities. It has no constitution, charter or bylaws, and no formal or informal ecclesiastical, corporate, or other management structure. It has no directors, officers, managing agents, or other executives; no employees, staff members, or volunteers; no income; no disbursements, no bank accounts or other assets; no liabilities; no stationery; no office, home, address, or telephone number. It does not create or maintain any financial, personnel, or other records. It can neither give nor receive orders because it has no one to either give or receive them or to carry them out. It cannot sue or be sued.”

8. Fraud: While David Miscavige’s attorney Wallace Jefferson states in the quote above that the Sea Org can have no volunteers, , the official Scientology.org website section “What is the Sea Org?” states that Sea Org members are volunteers:

As volunteers and members of a religious order, Sea Organization members work long hours and live communally with housing, meals, uniforms, medical and dental care, transport and all expenses associated with their duties provided by the Church. They also receive an allowance to purchase personal items, as all of their other expenses are fully covered by the Church.

The Sea Org is one of the most heinous frauds in the Church of Scientology, for even Sea Org members are lied to by the Church about the SO’s legal non-existence.

9. Fraud: Given that the Sea Org does not exist in any way whatsoever, the term “Sea Org” is just a phrase used to mislead, deceive, and con people into working for the Church of Scientology without being called employees, thus depriving these people to their rights to minimum wage, overtime, healthcare insurance, the right to sue their employer, or any other worker protections.

10. Fraud: Scientologists and Scientology attorneys lie to the public about Church membership and growth. Scientology does not have millions of members. No independent third party has ever been allowed to audit Scientology membership records. The declining membership is demonstrable in numerous empirical terms: To choose just one, shrinking attendance at Church events, calling for the renting of smaller venues. In Los Angeles, the downgrade from the LA Shrine Auditoroum (capacity 6,300) to the Kodak Center (capacity 3,332) is instructive.

11. Cult and Fraud: The Church of Scientology video records all auditing sessions. This is allegedly done for training purposes. However, the confidential contents of auditing sessions are routinely used by OSA to attack, slander, defame, and embarrass Scientologists who leave the Church and speak out against the abuses of Scientology.

12. Cult: The Church of Scientology teaches its members to lie when needed in order to protect the Church.

13. Cult: The Church of Scientology puts its own members through brutal interrogations called security checks, or “sec checks.”

14. Cult: The Church of Scientology breaks up families and friendships through its brutal policy of Disconnection. (A couple of recent examples — Sara Goldberg and Sylvia DeWall.)

15. Cult: The Church of Scientology indoctrinates and controls its own members through a program of isolation, thought-stopping, mind control, milieu control, and propaganda.

16. Fraud: In exchange for money, the Church of Scientology has long promised its members miraculous spiritual powers it cannot actually deliver.

17. Cult: The Church of Scientology makes its members sign an unconscionable contract which allows the Church to kidnap them and hold them against their will if they are deemed “Type III” (psychotic) by the Church. This “kidnap contract” was put in place after the negligent death of Scientologist Lisa McPherson.

18. Fraud: The Church of Scientology raises money for a David Miscavige slush fund called the International Association of Scientologists. Under IRS rules, IAS donations are “undesignated” and can be spent for anything Miscavige sees fit. IAS donations can fund Fair Game campaigns, lawyers, and private investigators. The fraud here is that IAS monies are not spent in the public benefit. To cement the IAS fraud, Scientology makes its members sign a contract stating that all donations to the IAS are nonrefundable.

19. Fraud: The Church of Scientology raises money from its members for the purchase of unneeded buildings it calls “Ideal Orgs.” These largely empty buildings are tax free real estate purchases.

20. Fraud: The Church of Scientology offers no financial transparency whatsoever to its members or the public. Indeed, it was the Underground Bunker that broke the story of the IRS records showing a Church book value of $1.5 billion.

Thanks for that list, Jeff. And we’re looking forward to seeing the additional reasons our readers will no doubt hit us with in the comments. — ed

——————–

Source: http://tonyortega.org/2015/05/07/guest-post-20-reasons-the-church-of-scientology-is-a-cult-and-a-fraud/

It is important to differentiate between cults, frauds, different but still Christian ideologies.  With respect to the Church of Scientology, we must remember it was started by a Science Fiction writer, and not a particularly good one at that.

[kwikphilly]

Blessings SavedOne.....

Quote

So we should just throw up our hands since everyone could be in a cult? That's ludicrous.  Here's how we should view this matter:

Bible Christianity -- doctrines and practices derived from Scripture, which are properly interpreted in the light of all Scripture.

False Christianity -- mixes the doctrines of men with the truth of God.

Apostasy -- denies Bible truths altogether.

Cults -- promote doctrines which contradict Bible truth while brainwashing their adherents.

Okay,I'm going to go out on a limb & I really don't like to categorize people into groups but what I am about to say I believe fits in very well,,,please keep in mid,whoever is reading this,that this is MY personal experience from the time I could remember until the age of 12 or 13,,,,& according the definitions Ezra gave us(which I believe are appropriate & accurate) I would say I was brainwashed (cult?) & taught a mix of Gods Truth with the doctrines of men combined(False Christianity?),,,So I will you my story.......I hope(briefly)

Being born into a very traditional Italian-catholic family,I was sent off to a private school ,,,,,It was owned & operated by the rcc,the teachers were semi-cloister nuns (I will refrain from posting the "order")   Children are never permitted to read the Bible(& anyone I ever met who was raised rcc has told me the same) Also,in those days,"Mass"(or church service) was in Latin,not English,,,,,,,you learned from the "missile" & from other catholic texts & literature you were allowed to read & study,,,,,,,,,,,,,,my dad told me Bible stories every night & we always read the Bible(the Holy Bible-catholic version)    What was "drilled" into our little minds was not the same thing I was "hearing" when my dad read Gods Word,,,,,I questioned everything & got into much trouble because of it,their reasoning was that I was too young to understand & "interpret " the Bible

 I won't go on & on about everything that was forced fed to me but I will say that it was twisted & perverted into an adulterated WORD,,,,,,traditions of men were placed above what the Scriptures say & we were encouraged NOT to pray to Jesus directly,Mary was the central figure & the way to Jesus or the "saints"(dead people) could pray FOR YOU after you pray to them,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,if you did not receive your "sacraments" you were unWorthy,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,never,in all those years was the Blood of Jesus emphasized or "Faith" ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,yes,they tell you Jesus Sacrifice was madev in your place  but yet to get to Him you have to go "through " someone else    Mary,saints,priests,just leaving out the importance or even the knowledge of the most wonderful Good News,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,we have a PERSONAL Lord & Savior,we have a  RELATIONSHIP,,,,,,,,,

   I am very Blessed that Gods Truth was Revealed to me fro the time I could recall,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I loved Jesus & I knew the loves me,,,,,,,,,,,,,,& I am not saying that there are not Saved catholics that are Born Again Believers,I am not saying there are not good catholic churches or schools,no way,,,,,,as I said,I do not like to categorize,people are individuals & God knows their hearts    What I am saying is that this particular organization was both a "cult" & taught "False Christianity",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,so which were they?both?When day after day,year after year you are rewarded for following along like a robot & punished to question their teachings,I would have top say it is a "cult",,,,there was a misplaced adoration & worship for "mary",,,,,"queen of Heaven" & they made their best attempts to brainwash me & my classmates,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,they succeeded to,in a way,,,,It took many years,after I totally rejected catholicism & embraced my new found Freedom as a plain ole Bible Believing gal,,,,,,,I always knew my Lord & Savior,there is no one but Him to Thank,,,,,,,Praise Jesus

   Anyway,,,,,,,,,,,,,okay,I'm ready to get blasted?I hope not  & please,again,,,I'm not bashing catholicism,I'm simply telling my truth,,,,,my first hand experience                                                                        With love-in Christ,Kwik
 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, kwikphilly said:

Blessings SavedOne.....

Okay,I'm going to go out on a limb & I really don't like to categorize people into groups but what I am about to say I believe fits in very well,,,please keep in mid,whoever is reading this,that this is MY personal experience from the time I could remember until the age of 12 or 13,,,,& according the definitions Ezra gave us(which I believe are appropriate & accurate) I would say I was brainwashed (cult?) & taught a mix of Gods Truth with the doctrines of men combined(False Christianity?),,,So I will you my story.......I hope(briefly)

Being born into a very traditional Italian-catholic family,I was sent off to a private school ,,,,,It was owned & operated by the rcc,the teachers were semi-cloister nuns (I will refrain from posting the "order")   Children are never permitted to read the Bible(& anyone I ever met who was raised rcc has told me the same) Also,in those days,"Mass"(or church service) was in Latin,not English,,,,,,,you learned from the "missile" & from other catholic texts & literature you were allowed to read & study,,,,,,,,,,,,,,my dad told me Bible stories every night & we always read the Bible(the Holy Bible-catholic version)    What was "drilled" into our little minds was not the same thing I was "hearing" when my dad read Gods Word,,,,,I questioned everything & got into much trouble because of it,their reasoning was that I was too young to understand & "interpret " the Bible

 I won't go on & on about everything that was forced fed to me but I will say that it was twisted & perverted into an adulterated WORD,,,,,,traditions of men were placed above what the Scriptures say & we were encouraged NOT to pray to Jesus directly,Mary was the central figure & the way to Jesus or the "saints"(dead people) could pray FOR YOU after you pray to them,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,if you did not receive your "sacraments" you were unWorthy,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,never,in all those years was the Blood of Jesus emphasized or "Faith" ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,yes,they tell you Jesus Sacrifice was madev in your place  but yet to get to Him you have to go "through " someone else    Mary,saints,priests,just leaving out the importance or even the knowledge of the most wonderful Good News,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,we have a PERSONAL Lord & Savior,we have a  RELATIONSHIP,,,,,,,,,

   I am very Blessed that Gods Truth was Revealed to me fro the time I could recall,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I loved Jesus & I knew the loves me,,,,,,,,,,,,,,& I am not saying that there are not Saved catholics that are Born Again Believers,I am not saying there are not good catholic churches or schools,no way,,,,,,as I said,I do not like to categorize,people are individuals & God knows their hearts    What I am saying is that this particular organization was both a "cult" & taught "False Christianity",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,so which were they?both?When day after day,year after year you are rewarded for following along like a robot & punished to question their teachings,I would have top say it is a "cult",,,,there was a misplaced adoration & worship for "mary",,,,,"queen of Heaven" & they made their best attempts to brainwash me & my classmates,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,they succeeded to,in a way,,,,It took many years,after I totally rejected catholicism & embraced my new found Freedom as a plain ole Bible Believing gal,,,,,,,I always knew my Lord & Savior,there is no one but Him to Thank,,,,,,,Praise Jesus

   Anyway,,,,,,,,,,,,,okay,I'm ready to get blasted?I hope not  & please,again,,,I'm not bashing catholicism,I'm simply telling my truth,,,,,my first hand experience                                                                        With love-in Christ,Kwik
 

Yep, I am ready to get blasted too! But here goes.

A cult?

When it comes to sacraments and priestly mediation...................... An excerpt from Messianic Jewish  Rabbi Mark Kinzer' writing: ""The Enduring Sacramental Character of Jewish Life in the Messiah A Messianic Jewish Perspective. As found on page 15 

 

celebrating the Eucharist appropriately, then our observance of the mitzvoth will also be affected. At the same time, a sacramental understanding of Judaism likewise poses a serious challenge to Catholic self-understanding. The absence of Jewish sacramental life within the Catholic Church  and, historically, its active suppression becomes a problem of tremendous urgency and importance, which has implications for the integrity of its own ecclesial sacraments. Thus, for both Messianic Jews and for Catholics the breakdown of sacramental compartmentalization offers both rewards and risks, hopeful prospects and fearful tests.

The fundamental vocation of Israel is to be a priestly people and holy nation. This entails an existence as a particular genealogical community with a universal priestly vocation, a vocation which attains its eschatological fullness in the death and resurrection of the Incarnate Word. In other words, Israel is a sacrament whose holiness expresses the holiness of the One in whom and for whom she was chosen, that she might mediate blessing to all the nations of the world. That vocation is just as real today as it was in ancient times. Happy are those who lay low the hills and raise the valleys before her and within her, so that she might be a smooth road on which the Holy One may come to consummate the world which was created in six days.

[SavedOnebyGrace]

48 minutes ago, kwikphilly said:

Blessings SavedOne.....

Okay,I'm going to go out on a limb & I really don't like to categorize people into groups but what I am about to say I believe fits in very well,,,please keep in mid,whoever is reading this,that this is MY personal experience from the time I could remember until the age of 12 or 13,,,,& according the definitions Ezra gave us(which I believe are appropriate & accurate) I would say I was brainwashed (cult?) & taught a mix of Gods Truth with the doctrines of men combined(False Christianity?),,,So I will you my story.......I hope(briefly)

Being born into a very traditional Italian-catholic family,I was sent off to a private school ,,,,,It was owned & operated by the rcc,the teachers were semi-cloister nuns (I will refrain from posting the "order")   Children are never permitted to read the Bible(& anyone I ever met who was raised rcc has told me the same) Also,in those days,"Mass"(or church service) was in Latin,not English,,,,,,,you learned from the "missile" & from other catholic texts & literature you were allowed to read & study,,,,,,,,,,,,,,my dad told me Bible stories every night & we always read the Bible(the Holy Bible-catholic version)    What was "drilled" into our little minds was not the same thing I was "hearing" when my dad read Gods Word,,,,,I questioned everything & got into much trouble because of it,their reasoning was that I was too young to understand & "interpret " the Bible

 I won't go on & on about everything that was forced fed to me but I will say that it was twisted & perverted into an adulterated WORD,,,,,,traditions of men were placed above what the Scriptures say & we were encouraged NOT to pray to Jesus directly,Mary was the central figure & the way to Jesus or the "saints"(dead people) could pray FOR YOU after you pray to them,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,if you did not receive your "sacraments" you were unWorthy,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,never,in all those years was the Blood of Jesus emphasized or "Faith" ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,yes,they tell you Jesus Sacrifice was madev in your place  but yet to get to Him you have to go "through " someone else    Mary,saints,priests,just leaving out the importance or even the knowledge of the most wonderful Good News,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,we have a PERSONAL Lord & Savior,we have a  RELATIONSHIP,,,,,,,,,

   I am very Blessed that Gods Truth was Revealed to me fro the time I could recall,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I loved Jesus & I knew the loves me,,,,,,,,,,,,,,& I am not saying that there are not Saved catholics that are Born Again Believers,I am not saying there are not good catholic churches or schools,no way,,,,,,as I said,I do not like to categorize,people are individuals & God knows their hearts    What I am saying is that this particular organization was both a "cult" & taught "False Christianity",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,so which were they?both?When day after day,year after year you are rewarded for following along like a robot & punished to question their teachings,I would have top say it is a "cult",,,,there was a misplaced adoration & worship for "mary",,,,,"queen of Heaven" & they made their best attempts to brainwash me & my classmates,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,they succeeded to,in a way,,,,It took many years,after I totally rejected catholicism & embraced my new found Freedom as a plain ole Bible Believing gal,,,,,,,I always knew my Lord & Savior,there is no one but Him to Thank,,,,,,,Praise Jesus

   Anyway,,,,,,,,,,,,,okay,I'm ready to get blasted?I hope not  & please,again,,,I'm not bashing catholicism,I'm simply telling my truth,,,,,my first hand experience                                                                        With love-in Christ,Kwik

Being a former Roman Catholic myself with 12 years of Roman Catholic Church teaching, I find your post as a most precious diamond.  I usually get blasted when I talk about my RCC instruction and its lack of consistency, the praying to Mary, Joseph, the Saints and even Angels.  These are aspects of the RCC that younger members refuse to believe.  I grew up never hearing the Mass in English but I had a side-by-side translation from Latin to English in my Missal.  Most of the OT was ignored and we were never encouraged to read the Bible (Douay-Rheims Version) even though RCC ideology was heavily promoted in the notes.

Now to the big question: is the Roman Catholic Church a cult?  There are definitely Born-Again Christian Roman Catholics and there are pew-warmers.  Being a Roman Catholic, a Methodist, a Baptist, etc., doesn't automatically get you into Heaven.  The RCC has promoted some false teaching and is very slow and reluctant to acknowledge past mistakes.  Some Christian theologians have defined the RCC as a cult.  The late Dr. Walter Martin is one the comes to mind.  Theologian Loraine Boettner is another.

The biggest problem I have with the RCC is their lack of emphasis on grace, instead of works.  Roman Catholicism is a works based religion, instead of relying on God's grace.  When my father was dying from colon-rectal cancer, he was suffering greatly.  After he passed, my aunt (his sister) said he surely went to Heaven because of all the suffering he went through his last few years.  I never heard my father talk about God, Jesus or the Holy Spirit in my life.  He attended mass once a week until his health prevented him, but did he believe?  I don't honestly know.  He worked hard to provide for his family but beyond that ...  If I start writing about my mother this will end up being the neverending post.  My wife refers to her as a non-violent psychopath.  She dabbled in the occult but never missed once-a-week mass so she could see and put down what others were wearing.  She's dead also.

Luther tried to reform the RCC, but was condemned for it.  The list of RC atrocities is quite lengthy, and the heresies they still promote without foundation is astounding.  All that said, there are Christian Born-Again Roman Catholics and there are others who might as well be godless pagans.

[Guest]

58 minutes ago, Joline said:

Yep, I am ready to get blasted too! But here goes.

A cult?

When it comes to sacraments and priestly mediation...................... An excerpt from Messianic Jewish  Rabbi Mark Kinzer' writing: ""The Enduring Sacramental Character of Jewish Life in the Messiah A Messianic Jewish Perspective. As found on page 15 

 

celebrating the Eucharist appropriately, then our observance of the mitzvoth will also be affected. At the same time, a sacramental understanding of Judaism likewise poses a serious challenge to Catholic self-understanding. The absence of Jewish sacramental life within the Catholic Church  and, historically, its active suppression becomes a problem of tremendous urgency and importance, which has implications for the integrity of its own ecclesial sacraments. Thus, for both Messianic Jews and for Catholics the breakdown of sacramental compartmentalization offers both rewards and risks, hopeful prospects and fearful tests.

The fundamental vocation of Israel is to be a priestly people and holy nation. This entails an existence as a particular genealogical community with a universal priestly vocation, a vocation which attains its eschatological fullness in the death and resurrection of the Incarnate Word. In other words, Israel is a sacrament whose holiness expresses the holiness of the One in whom and for whom she was chosen, that she might mediate blessing to all the nations of the world. That vocation is just as real today as it was in ancient times. Happy are those who lay low the hills and raise the valleys before her and within her, so that she might be a smooth road on which the Holy One may come to consummate the world which was created in six days.

In looking at this doctrine from a biblical stand point. Is this doctrine biblically sound?

Judaism’s Five Primary

 Sacramental Signs

There are five expressions of holiness in this world that I will focus upon here: (1) Israel as holy people; (2) the Sabbath (and the holidays) as holy time; (3) the land of Israel and the city of Jerusalem as holy place; (4) the Torah as holy word; and (5) the

mitzvoth  as holy deeds. All five of these realities exist independently of the Temple, and their status in Jewish life was unchanged  by the Temple’s  destruction. Jews have generally approached these five realities in a manner closely resembling the way Catholics, Eastern Orthodox Christians, and liturgically-oriented Protestants have treated Christian sacraments.

By God’s gracious decision and action, each of the five bears an intrinsic holiness that sets it apart from other members of its earthly class (i.e., peoples, times, places, words, deeds) . The increasing influence of Jewish mystical thought and practice in the medieval  period accentuated this sacramental approach. While Jews of a rationalistic bent have criticized such sacramentalism, their position was a minority viewpoint until the modern era, and remains a minority viewpoint within the world of traditional Judaism.

11

The author speaks of these five sacraments as being intrinsically holy, therefore remain so apart from the temple and it's ministers.

I do believe this notion to be against what Christ says.

 

Mt 23:17  Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?
 

Mt 23:19  Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?

 

And therefore contrary to what the law says concerning the feasts............

Lev 37  These are the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, and a meat offering, a sacrifice, and drink offerings, every thing upon his day: