enoob57 Posted June 11, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,061 Content Per Day: 7.97 Reputation: 21,388 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Online Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted June 11, 2016 53 minutes ago, Kan said: A very interesting and appropriate reply Enoob. What I think you are basically saying is, that there is nothing in between the Word and its creation. I agree with that, and I understand that the invisible things that Jesus has created are part of the visible creation, so that the things which we see are not made of visible things, but invisible. However there is a gap of comprehension of the Word, where the Word is beyond our understanding, we cannot know the complexity of the Word. But the Bible does not disconnect heaven and earth as the heathen do, and shows that there is an intimate connection between the Word and creation, on the physical level, as well as on the spiritual. The idea of understanding the physical connection between the Word and creation is to strengthen the evidence for our spiritual connection by the same. You can understand why the devil would like to get in there and prevent any knowledge. While it is enough to believe in the proximity of God's Word and protection, in the last days it will pay to have some knowledge of how nature operates, and what is physically possible, outside the normal perimeters. I acknowledge where you are coming from in regards to gnosticism and other false ideas creeping into the unknown. The Devil is opportunistic, and will enter where he can. He has done this in the past and still does it. The study of the invisible factors of the universe is not ignored in the Bible, but it is generally ignored by Christians, which leaves them vulnerable if anything unusual or supernatural occurs, they cannot tell if it is natural or from the devil, or whatever. A myriad of theories can come in, as YouTube demonstrates, alien theories, reptilianism, Nephilim theories and dozens of crackpot ideas. What the Bible says about these invisible elements is generally not known by Christians or unbelievers, and it is hoped by the devil that this ignorance will prevail long enough for him to deceive the world with his works of lying wonders and miracles, as well as foreign/ancient technology. He will give 'evidence' of his lies to the scientific world, and they will believe in him as some sort of Christ, so that the secular is fully united with the superstitious and religious. The false doctrines held among nominal churches of Christendom and all world religions today, will be the catalyst to deceive the whole world. We have the choice to arm ourselves with truth in doctrine and in science. A correct understanding of nature will not contradict the Bible and will also agree with scientific observations, but not necessarily the theories and conclusions of the evidence at hand. We are in complete agreement here... Probably for me here, in the perversion of the begin (that what I call this place), one of the the most humbling instances of Jesus revealing of The Father is this Mk 14:3636 And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt. KJV I am quickly taken to the fact 'all things are possible unto thee' which entail unlimited possibilities in the creative format itself- this universe is only one instance of the infinite set that so pleased God in that week in the beginning! The next is in all the infinite possibilities that the reality of God is within a being is that their desire will become secondary to The Fathers... there is no question in what sanctification is to the fullest- as to arrive at this-> when the total of ones desire is other than God The Fathers within self and yet that desire yields in the greatest desire of all else >self abandonment< and then emptied into The Father's Will entirely from the faith formed from His Word... That b/Being is now ready to be filled with glory unto glory without end...1 Jn 3:2-32 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. KJV It no longer has anything to do with the beginning and the trip through the law but of p/Person and intimacy beyond comprehension in God Himself for ever... Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kan Posted June 11, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,661 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 1,292 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/21/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 11, 2016 3 hours ago, enoob57 said: We are in complete agreement here... Probably for me here, in the perversion of the begin (that what I call this place), one of the the most humbling instances of Jesus revealing of The Father is this Mk 14:3636 And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt. KJV I am quickly taken to the fact 'all things are possible unto thee' which entail unlimited possibilities in the creative format itself- this universe is only one instance of the infinite set that so pleased God in that week in the beginning! The next is in all the infinite possibilities that the reality of God is within a being is that their desire will become secondary to The Fathers... there is no question in what sanctification is to the fullest- as to arrive at this-> when the total of ones desire is other than God The Fathers within self and yet that desire yields in the greatest desire of all else >self abandonment< and then emptied into The Father's Will entirely from the faith formed from His Word... That b/Being is now ready to be filled with glory unto glory without end...1 Jn 3:2-32 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. KJV It no longer has anything to do with the beginning and the trip through the law but of p/Person and intimacy beyond comprehension in God Himself for ever... Love, Steven Any spiritual truth has an example, a symbol, or demonstration on the physical level in nature. So the scientist who is aware of the Personality of God, is more likely to arrive at the correct conclusion of an observation. What you have said about the Son having no quibbles about subjecting His will to the Father, shows the inner nature of the Father as well, as the chapter on love says, "not vaunting itself." The willingness to give up all for the sake of another is the essence of God's heart. He is not self interested, that's why He is so desirable to meet. By applying spiritual values to our discernment of nature, we find that the universe is not a demonstration of a violent self generated explosion, with a built in accidental intent of vaunting itself to the heights of dominance, as the theories of so called science go, but creation shows appropriateness in all functions and form. It is founded on wisdom and intelligence. Wisdom is appropriateness, it is intelligence applied correctly. To illustrate why a self interested universe could not produce any useful function, if a classroom of students all try to leave at once, as they do, the exit gets jammed, but if they are courteous, then the room is emptied very quickly. The universe cannot function without unselfish principles, so the submission of one to another in the godhead, is the ultimate source of power of creation, and therefor all creations - whether principalities or powers (laws or forces), things seen and unseen, all are expressions of wisdom and love. The chaos in the beginning, is simply what God says - darkness, and yet this emptiness, this nothingness in the absolute sense, is the place where things can be made brand new, not dependent on anything old prior to it, born by the Word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted June 11, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,061 Content Per Day: 7.97 Reputation: 21,388 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Online Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted June 11, 2016 16 minutes ago, Kan said: Any spiritual truth has an example, a symbol, or demonstration on the physical level in nature. So the scientist who is aware of the Personality of God, is more likely to arrive at the correct conclusion of an observation. What you have said about the Son having no quibbles about subjecting His will to the Father, shows the inner nature of the Father as well, as the chapter on love says, "not vaunting itself." The willingness to give up all for the sake of another is the essence of God's heart. He is not self interested, that's why He is so desirable to meet. That is exactly what drive my heart to be with Him and lose me... thanks for the blessing! By applying spiritual values to our discernment of nature, we find that the universe is not a demonstration of a violent self generated explosion, with a built in accidental intent of vaunting itself to the heights of dominance, as the theories of so called science go, but creation shows appropriateness in all functions and form. It is founded on wisdom and intelligence. Wisdom is appropriateness, it is intelligence applied correctly. To illustrate why a self interested universe could not produce any useful function, if a classroom of students all try to leave at once, as they do, the exit gets jammed, but if they are courteous, then the room is emptied very quickly. The universe cannot function without unselfish principles, so the submission of one to another in the godhead, is the ultimate source of power of creation, and therefor all creations - whether principalities or powers (laws or forces), things seen and unseen, all are expressions of wisdom and love. The chaos in the beginning, is simply what God says - darkness, and yet this emptiness, this nothingness in the absolute sense, is the place where things can be made brand new, not dependent on anything old prior to it, born by the Word. Amazing incites thank you! As to the last that you have spoken: Anything that is perceivable through sensual mean (the 5 senses) is created... even the darkness and water< bullying another thread ] and yet before the creation event God filled the endless with Himself in Father, Son and Spirit a realm in which we were before we were in His Councils and Thoughts and I believe it is to this reality that Jesus speaks of Jn 17:24-26 24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. Eph 1:4 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: KJV 25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me. 26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them. KJV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kan Posted June 11, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,661 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 1,292 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/21/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 11, 2016 2 minutes ago, enoob57 said: Amazing incites thank you! As to the last that you have spoken: Anything that is perceivable through sensual mean (the 5 senses) is created... even the darkness and water< bullying another thread ] and yet before the creation event God filled the endless with Himself in Father, Son and Spirit a realm in which we were before we were in His Councils and Thoughts and I believe it is to this reality that Jesus speaks of Jn 17:24-26 24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. Eph 1:4 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: KJV 25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me. 26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them. KJV That's right, there is no such thing as a void with God, it is not possible to make a void in God's realm, unless one is equal with God. But there is such a thing as giving away what He has. God gave away His Son for our salvation, but in a sense He also gave Him away at the creation, because He had committed His own life towards the creation of man, so that should man fail, God would do what was necessary to restore him. "The Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." The darkness, emptiness, chaos, waters, are the opposite of the Light, the fullness of God, order etc. The Son of God gave up those things to make a place for the creation, that the Father would do through this action of the Son. No one but an equal with God could do this. Creation could only exist if God was humble and meek. And the universe exists by this virtue as expressed by the Son. Jesus expresses the heart of the Father by making a creation through His submission of power to the Father. If one of the Godhead did not relinquish His power, even momentarily as it may be, there would be no way that any thing could exist. The waters are a physical state brought about by this relinquishing of power by the Son, even before time was made for our world. And so He can truthfully claim "I am the beginning and the end," the beginning of all creation and the receiver of all creation. Nothing exists without Him. In the end, God has no void, but an immense and vibrant creation which He loves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SavedOnebyGrace Posted June 19, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,054 Content Per Day: 15.41 Reputation: 5,191 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted June 19, 2016 On 6/9/2016 at 7:36 AM, Kan said: Well I'm glad I am not left without a challenge to keep me in check. I could be way off track, and possibly don't even know how I got here, but for the time being I love what has been introduced to me through years of interest. Thanks for your input. Kan: You're an interesting person to converse with. Because I've been away from this thread because of connection problems with my computer at work, and other unspecified issues, I've lost my sense of where this conversation was going. I apologize. If you want to focus on one aspect of your response, pick one if you want to continue our dialog. Again, I apologize for stepping away from this thread for awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kan Posted June 19, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,661 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 1,292 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/21/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 19, 2016 4 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said: Kan: You're an interesting person to converse with. Because I've been away from this thread because of connection problems with my computer at work, and other unspecified issues, I've lost my sense of where this conversation was going. I apologize. If you want to focus on one aspect of your response, pick one if you want to continue our dialog. Again, I apologize for stepping away from this thread for awhile. I think it went this far after what I posted on the way that the universe exists - that is by a subjection of power and not the raising up of it. On 6/1/2016 at 0:17 AM, Saved.One.by.Grace said: I disagree with your perspective in so many ways it is impossible for me to cover in a single reply, nor do I want to waste my time doing so with multiple replies. I'll just say you don't have a Biblical basis for your beliefs. They come from your mind, your imagination, and your reasoning. I am not questioning your Christianity, only your discernment of Biblical truth. You are so outside the Bible, I really don't know where to start quite frankly. I admit that what I wrote may be extremely difficult to accept, because it is a reversal of the way people think about energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SavedOnebyGrace Posted June 19, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,054 Content Per Day: 15.41 Reputation: 5,191 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted June 19, 2016 7 hours ago, Kan said: I think it went this far after what I posted on the way that the universe exists - that is by a subjection of power and not the raising up of it. I admit that what I wrote may be extremely difficult to accept, because it is a reversal of the way people think about energy. I look at energy from a scientific perspective tempered by my understanding of the Bible as the Holy Spirit has illuminated it for me. Every new breakthrough in science reinforces my belief in God and His power and how everything is held together by His will. The one exception to that is the Theory of Evolution, of course. My beliefs are easy to explain even to those who disagree with them. Maybe I'm just too set in my beliefs to understand yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SavedOnebyGrace Posted June 21, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,054 Content Per Day: 15.41 Reputation: 5,191 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted June 21, 2016 (edited) We can look at chaos in several ways. Chaos is the absence of order, and we know God's creative work was good - meaning God was pleased with His efforts. Or there really is order in chaos that we just can't see. Chaos can also mean disorder with a purpose that we cannot see or comprehend. An example would be the Tower of Babel. Chaos can also mean God's judgment. This is referred to in Genesis 1:2. At this point in Moses' writing, we don't know the details and it's not important to the creation account which Moses is relaying. All will be revealed in time. Edited June 21, 2016 by Saved.One.by.Grace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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