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When Nations turn against Israel


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5 hours ago, Davida said:

Does this lead to the lost black tribes of Israelites? Because that is a false teaching that I've heard spread. It is also a false teaching that the Church is Israel. It is just plain confusion. GOD never replaced the Nation of Israel with the Church and HE never confused the two.   

Guess we disagree on that,as I see Israel as always being the Church

Acts 7:38 "This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the Angel Which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our father: who received the lively oracles to give unto us."

The Church and Israel cannot be seperated 

If Abraham is your father,how can the Church not be Israel?

Edited by n2thelight
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Israel is the Root of the New Testament Church

The scriptures clearly teach that the church did not start on the day of Pentecost. It already existed. In Abraham, God called out a people and a church for his name. Israel is the root of the New Testament Church. The mystery hidden from the foundation of the world was that the Gentile should be graffed into that root. The Gentiles are not a separate tree.

Those Jews who abide in unbelief are broken off from their own tree through their unbelief. There is not special provision for them in the "tribulation period" (incidentally, the Bible does not teach that Christians will escape the great tribulation. It teaches the opposite and says for us to pray that our flight not be in the winter or on the sabbath day). All they have to do is believe in Jesus Christ and they will be immediately graffed back into their own tree. In speaking of Israel, Paul says this is Romans 11--

I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, AND WITH THEM partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. [We are all in ONE tree.]

24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature INTO a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? [There is only ONE tree. We get in by faith in the blood of Jesus.]

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be COME IN.

This is a plain, untwisted reading of the holy scriptures. For other witnesses see I Thessalonians 2:14-16, Colossians 3:11, Galatians 3:26-29. There is something out today called, "the Hebrew roots of Christianity," or "Hebrew roots," this is also a heresy--that is not what is being referred to here.

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Jeremiah 33:14 " Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will perform that good thing which I have promised unto the house of Israel and to the house of Judah."

Again the two have yet to be joined back

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After the death of King Solomon of Israel, the 12 tribes of Israel divided into two kingdoms. Rehoboam, the son of Solomon, became king of the southern kingdom of Judah, which was comprised of the tribes of Judah and Benjamin and much of the tribe of Levi, the tribe that served at the temple. Jeroboam, a former servant of King Solomon, became king of the northern kingdom of Israel, which was comprised of the remaining 10 tribes (1 Kings 11 and 12). Even though all the tribes were descendants of Jacob (also called Israel, Genesis 32:28; 35:10) and were known as Israelites under the single nation with this name, these peoples were now separated into two nations.

The Bible reveals that Israel and Judah will eventually be reunited as one nation. Before we look at this prophecy, consider a brief history of what happened to these two groups of people.

What happened to Israel and Judah?

It is important to note the distinction between the peoples of these two nations: Israel and Judah. While all Jews were Israelites because they were descendants of Jacob (Israel), not all Israelites were Jews. Some Israelites came from tribes other than Judah and Benjamin. Reflecting this distinction, the first time the word Jew appears in the King James Version of the Bible, the nations of Israel and Syria are at war with the “Jews” (2 Kings 16:5-6).

Because of disobedience to His laws, God allowed the northern kingdom of Israel to be taken into captivity by the Assyrians in the eighth century B.C. The Assyrians took these Israelites captive in successive deportations and settled them “in the cities of the Medes” (2 Kings 15:29; 18:9-12). Since this time, these people are known in history as the lost 10 tribes of Israel.

Less than 150 years later, during the sixth century B.C., God allowed the nation of Judah, which likewise continued to sin, to fall to the Babylonian Empire. Many Jews, including the prophet Daniel and his three friends, were taken as captives to Babylon. After 70 years, the Jews were given their freedom and allowed to return to Judah and rebuild the city of Jerusalem and the temple. They were still in their land when the Romans conquered Judea in 63 B.C.

Israel and Judah in the first century

Although there had been some mixing of the peoples of Israel and Judah (2 Kings 18:9-13; 2 Chronicles 34:9) during their respective captivities, during the first century it was still understood that these remained distinct groups of people. Since he was of the tribe of Benjamin, Paul told people that he was both a Jew (Acts 21:39) and an Israelite (Philippians 3:5).

When James wrote his general epistle, he addressed it to “the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad” (James 1:1). Writing during this same time period, the Jewish historian Josephus said, “The entire body of the people of Israel remained in that country [Media]; wherefore there are but two tribes [Judah and Benjamin] in Asia and Europe subject to the Romans, while the ten tribes are beyond Euphrates till now, and are an immense multitude, and not to be estimated by numbers” (Antiquities of the Jews, 11.5.2, Complete Works of Flavius Josephus, combined translations of William Whiston, 1867, and the Standard Edition, 1960).

The modern nation of Israel

When the modern nation of Israel was founded in 1948, it was established as a haven for Jews. Some have mistakenly assumed that because its founders chose the name Israel, this nation is now home for all of the descendants of ancient Israel. Several passages in the Bible make it clear that the modern nation of Israel does not represent all of the ancient Israelites.

First, we must realize that the Bible speaks of Abraham’s descendants as being an extremely large number of people—“as the sand of the sea” (Genesis 32:12). With the modern nation of Israel’s population approaching 8 million, compared to the earth’s current population of approximately 7 billion, the belief that the modern nation of Israel represents all of Abraham’s descendants doesn’t adequately respect or do justice to the promise God made to this patriarch. 

Furthermore, Abraham’s descendant Ephraim was prophesied to “become a multitude of nations”; and his brother, Manasseh, a “great” nation (Genesis 48:19). Again, the modern nation of Israel has not fulfilled these biblical prophecies.

Israel and Judah reunited

While delivering prophecies to the ancient peoples of Israel and Judah of the upcoming demise of their nations because of their disobedience to God’s law, several prophets also spoke of a time of restoration after Christ returns to establish the Kingdom of God here on earth.

Jeremiah wrote: “‘In those days and in that time,’ says the LORD, ‘the children of Israel shall come, they and the children of Judah together; with continual weeping they shall come, and seek the LORD their God. They shall ask the way to Zion, with their faces toward it, saying, “Come and let us join ourselves to the LORD in a perpetual covenant that will not be forgotten”’” (Jeremiah 50:4-5). This prophecy speaks of both Israel and Judah jointly coming to God.

More explicitly via the use of a visual aid, God revealed through Ezekiel His plan to unite the two nations. “‘As for you, son of man, take a stick for yourself and write on it: “For Judah and for the children of Israel, his companions.” Then take another stick and write on it, “For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel, his companions.” Then join them one to another for yourself into one stick, and they will become one in your hand.

“‘And when the children of your people speak to you, saying, “Will you not show us what you mean by these?”—say to them, “Thus says the Lord GOD: ‘Surely I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel, his companions; and I will join them with it, with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they will be one in My hand.’” … Then say to them, “Thus says the Lord GOD: ‘Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again’”’” (Ezekiel 37:16-19, 21-22).

The descendants of the ancient Israelites who had been part of the ancient nations of Israel and Judah will be reunited. They will once again be one nation.

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Revelation 12 speaks of just 2 churches...one true, the pure woman, one false, the harlot. The harlot, Babylon the Great, as it appears at the time of the end, incorporates all fallen or apostate churches, as well as all false religions, and all the nations who surrender to the final deception brought about by the " image of the beast" enforcing submission to that beast, the Roman papal aposate. Also under her spell will be those who belive themselves Christian but do NOT keep Gods commandments nor have a true faith in Christ. This includes the nation of Israel.

The true pure woman represents all Gods faithful people, both Jew and Gentile. They are all those living up to the light they have received, are living wholly by faith in the Son of righteousness and are clothed in the correct wedding garment...the character of Christ. They come from among ALL peoples nations and tongues AND denominations. 

Thus the pure woman is both the true people of Israel and those gentile Christians now grafted into the true olive tree. One faith one baptism one spirit one Lord.

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Genesis 25:22 "And the children struggled together within her; and she said, "If it be so, why am I thus?" And she went to enquire of the Lord."

This was not a normal pregnancy, for these two little rascals literally fought in the womb continually. The ladies can relate to this much more then I can, but it must have been quite difficult for Rebekah. This was not normal, yet she was not complaining but inquiring what this all meant.

Genesis 25:23 "And the Lord said unto her, "Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger."

These twins are two different manner of people, and will grow into the two bodies of population that will ultimately rule the world. They fought in the womb, and they fought as children. Their tribes never could get along as the grew into nations, and even today, the Russian and Christian nations still have opposite polarity to each other.

The younger of the twins would be Jacob, and the elder is Esau, who was also called "Edom", also referred to as Rosh in the Hebrew, from which in English we get "Russia" [Rosh-people]. Jacob's name will be changed by God to "Israel", and through his twelve sons, will grow into a multitude of nations.

Within the womb of Rebekah you have the two super powers of the end generation, that we are now in. The Christian and Jewish nations of peoples on one side, and the children of Esau, or Russian people on the other. This is all part of God's plan, and stated within the promises of the covenant that God gave to Abraham.

God's hatred toward toward Esau was great, and is stated in both Malachi 1:3, and Romans 9:13; "...Jacob I loved, and Esau I hated". God does not had the innocent child, however, he does hate that sin that was committed prior to this earth age, in the "age that was". And the hatred toward Esau was from the sin committed in that time prior to his entering the womb. The Russian Christians have suffered a lot by their people, and the Kenites that live and rule amongst them, and God has a deep love for them. So much so that He gave His only Begotten Son so they might have eternal life.

As we enter into the final times of this so called peace of the "New World Order", Russia will turn again against the Christian nations [Jacob], and that is how we close out this current generation, and earth age of the flesh. Russia is like a jackal, and can't be trusted, and those who trust her in any form are fools.

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4 minutes ago, brakelite said:

Revelation 12 speaks of just 2 churches...one true, the pure woman, one false, the harlot. The harlot, Babylon the Great, as it appears at the time of the end, incorporates all fallen or apostate churches, as well as all false religions, and all the nations who surrender to the final deception brought about by the " image of the beast" enforcing submission to that beast, the Roman papal aposate. Also under her spell will be those who belive themselves Christian but do NOT keep Gods commandments nor have a true faith in Christ. This includes the nation of Israel.

The true pure woman represents all Gods faithful people, both Jew and Gentile. They are all those living up to the light they have received, are living wholly by faith in the Son of righteousness and are clothed in the correct wedding garment...the character of Christ. They come from among ALL peoples nations and tongues AND denominations. 

Thus the pure woman is both the true people of Israel and those gentile Christians now grafted into the true olive tree. One faith one baptism one spirit one Lord.

Revelation 12 v 1-6 is an account of the first earth age

Where do you see Churches?

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4 hours ago, n2thelight said:
Israel is the Root of the New Testament Church

The scriptures clearly teach that the church did not start on the day of Pentecost. It already existed. In Abraham, God called out a people and a church for his name. Israel is the root of the New Testament Church. The mystery hidden from the foundation of the world was that the Gentile should be graffed into that root. The Gentiles are not a separate tree.

Those Jews who abide in unbelief are broken off from their own tree through their unbelief. There is not special provision for them in the "tribulation period" (incidentally, the Bible does not teach that Christians will escape the great tribulation. It teaches the opposite and says for us to pray that our flight not be in the winter or on the sabbath day). All they have to do is believe in Jesus Christ and they will be immediately graffed back into their own tree. In speaking of Israel, Paul says this is Romans 11--

I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, AND WITH THEM partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. [We are all in ONE tree.]

24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature INTO a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? [There is only ONE tree. We get in by faith in the blood of Jesus.]

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be COME IN.

This is a plain, untwisted reading of the holy scriptures. For other witnesses see I Thessalonians 2:14-16, Colossians 3:11, Galatians 3:26-29. There is something out today called, "the Hebrew roots of Christianity," or "Hebrew roots," this is also a heresy--that is not what is being referred to here.

Being grafted in does not mean replace, supersede, etc.  And the root is still there. The key word is "until".  Blindness spiritually has happened to national Israel until the fulness of the gentiles be come in means until the number of gentiles that have come into the church has been reached.  Then the blindness will be removed from national Israel.  And this means as a nation during the tribulation period which the main focus is on the nation again as foretold in Daniel 9.  There have been many Jews that have come to belief, but the nation has not. 

And while the church may have root in Israel by faith, that doesn't mean a nation or group of nations are now Israel.  The believers that make up the church have the faith of the patriarchs and are associated with Israel, but they do not replace Israel.  There are more Chinese believers than in the U.S. or Europe, have they then replaced the English speaking peoples as the true Israel?  No, because neither is true, physical Israel.

If I go to live in France and become a citizen, that doesn't make me a Frenchman.  If a gentile comes to belief in the Messiah, he is spiritually made a child of God, and is of the faith of the patriarchs, but that doesn't make him a Jew or Israelite.  Even Paul goes states that, in the church, there is no Jew, Gentile, so one can claim not identity other that Christ Himself. 

Romans 10:12 (NKJV) For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.

Paul would slap you silly for perverting what he went to great lengths to expound on in Romans 9, 10, and 11. Only a person that has a agenda could make come to the conclusion you have.  You have effectively become Doublespeak out of George Orwell's 1984 or you have taken Bible interpretation into Alice In Wonderland territory.  You have not grasped the idea that the church and Israel are separate entities with separate destinies.   

And to separate Israel from Judah is torturing the scripture also.  Israel is the name given Jacob by God Himself.  And Jacob is the patriarch of all the tribes.   Technically, there is no Israel and Judah separate entities.   And Paul recognized that throughout his writings.  Paul never made them two distinct entities like you have. 

 

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4 hours ago, n2thelight said:

Revelation 12 v 1-6 is an account of the first earth age

Where do you see Churches?

Women in Bible propecy are symbols of the church. A pure faithful woman, (Isa 54:4-6; Jer 6:2; Isa 51:16; Hosea 2:19,20; )God's people, a harlot, an apostate church. (Ezek. 16; Jer 3:20; James 4:4; )

The reference in Revelation 12 does not refer to Mary, as giving birth, but to Israel,  to the church, God's true people who waited in expectation of their Messiah, such as Simeon and Anna, as opposed to the majority of the priests and religious leaders of the day who didn't have a clue.

It's the same today. Only those waiting in expectation, "looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our savior Jesus Christ", Titus 2:13, are a part of that same group of people. 

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14 hours ago, OldCoot said:

Being grafted in does not mean replace, supersede, etc.  And the root is still there. The key word is "until".  Blindness spiritually has happened to national Israel until the fulness of the gentiles be come in means until the number of gentiles that have come into the church has been reached.  Then the blindness will be removed from national Israel.  And this means as a nation during the tribulation period which the main focus is on the nation again as foretold in Daniel 9.  There have been many Jews that have come to belief, but the nation has not. 

And while the church may have root in Israel by faith, that doesn't mean a nation or group of nations are now Israel.  The believers that make up the church have the faith of the patriarchs and are associated with Israel, but they do not replace Israel.  There are more Chinese believers than in the U.S. or Europe, have they then replaced the English speaking peoples as the true Israel?  No, because neither is true, physical Israel.

If I go to live in France and become a citizen, that doesn't make me a Frenchman.  If a gentile comes to belief in the Messiah, he is spiritually made a child of God, and is of the faith of the patriarchs, but that doesn't make him a Jew or Israelite.  Even Paul goes states that, in the church, there is no Jew, Gentile, so one can claim not identity other that Christ Himself. 

Romans 10:12 (NKJV) For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.

Paul would slap you silly for perverting what he went to great lengths to expound on in Romans 9, 10, and 11. Only a person that has a agenda could make come to the conclusion you have.  You have effectively become Doublespeak out of George Orwell's 1984 or you have taken Bible interpretation into Alice In Wonderland territory.  You have not grasped the idea that the church and Israel are separate entities with separate destinies.   

And to separate Israel from Judah is torturing the scripture also.  Israel is the name given Jacob by God Himself.  And Jacob is the patriarch of all the tribes.   Technically, there is no Israel and Judah separate entities.   And Paul recognized that throughout his writings.  Paul never made them two distinct entities like you have. 

 

So again I ask where are the multitude of nations?

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