When Nations turn against Israel

[OldCoot]

23 hours ago, n2thelight said:

Some from Israel did join Judah,but not all..

 

 

So, using your logic, then Jesus was an imposter!   Only a small fraction of the Hebrews that went into captivity in Babylon returned.  The majority remained in Babylon.  So since "all" of Judah and Israel did not return, then they must not have really returned.  That is basically what you are saying in that "all" of Israel did not join with Judah, as shown in 2 Chronicles.

Look, throughout scripture, God always has a remnant.  Elijah experienced that in 1 Kings 19:18.

And because many did not return to the land of Israel after the captivity, the punishment of 7 times duration was applied to those that did not return.   

In Ezekiel 4:3-6, the number of days (representing years) that Ezekiel laid on his side at the command of God, showed the number of years the Hebrews would be punished.  A total of 430 years.   70 of those were accomplished in the Babylonian captivity.  But the majority did not return to the land with Ezra and Nehemiah.  So the prescription of Leviticus 26 was applied to those that remained in Babylon, that a punishment of 7 times over would be applied to those who did not obey God by returning.  

Now, we take those remaining 360 years (left over after we subtract the 70 years from the 430 years of punishment) and multiply by 7 times.  2520 years.  You apply 365 day calendar (instead of the 360 day calendar of antiquity) and you do the math from the time that the decree went from Cyrus to rebuild the temple (the remnant returned), and you come out to May 1948, when modern Israel became a nation.  You apply that same time to when the decree went from Cyrus to rebuild the city of Jerusalem, and you come to June 1967, when modern Israel reclaimed all the city of Jerusalem.  

Scriptural application can be real eye opening sometimes.

Edited July 13, 2017 by OldCoot

[n2thelight]

2 minutes ago, OldCoot said:

So, using your logic, then Jesus was an imposter!   Only a small fraction of the Hebrews that went into captivity in Babylon returned.  The majority remained in Babylon.  So since "all" of Judah and Israel did not return, then they must not have really returned.  That is basically what you are saying in that "all" of Israel did not join with Judah, as shown in 2 Chronicles.

Look, throughout scripture, God always has a remnant.  Elijah experienced that in 1 Kings 19:18.

And because many did not return to the land of Israel after the captivity, the punishment of 7 times duration was applied to those that did not return.   

In Ezekiel 4:3-6, the number of days (representing years) that Ezekiel laid on his side at the command of God, showed the number of years the Hebrews would be punished.  A total of 430 years.   70 of those were accomplished in the Babylonian captivity.  But the majority did not return to the land with Ezra and Nehemiah.  So the prescription of Leviticus 26 was applied to those that remained in Babylon, that a punishment of 7 times over would be applied to those who did not obey God by returning.  

Now, we take those remaining 360 years (left over after we subtract the 70 years from the 430 years of punishment) and multiply by 7 times.  2520 years.  You apply 365 day calendar (instead of the 360 day calendar of antiquity) and you do the math from the time that the decree went from Cyrus to rebuild the temple (the remnant returned), and you come out to May 1948, the day modern Israel became a nation.  You apply that same time to when the decree went from Cyrus to rebuild the city of Jerusalem, and you come to June 1967, when modern Israel reclaimed all the city of Jerusalem.  

Question,is it your view that only Jew's make up Israel,both tribes,judah and Israel?

[OldCoot]

6 minutes ago, n2thelight said:

Question,is it your view that only Jew's make up Israel,both tribes,judah and Israel?

No, Hebrews make up both Israel and Judah.  Let's see..  Jacob, the father of the all the 12 tribes, was renamed Israel by God.  Israel is all the tribes.  The only time there was a separation was during the time when the kingdom was divided.  But since the faithful of the northern kingdom joined with the southern kingdom in 2 Chronicles,  it has meant all 12 tribes.  I already showed examples of NT references of a Levite and a woman from the tribe of Asher being considered Jews.  Both of those tribes were not of the two tribes of the southern kingdom, but are still considered Jews.  Jew does not mean only from the tribe of Judah.  It was collectively applied to all Hebrews from the Babylonian captivity onward.  Paul does not differentiate tribal identities.  He always referred to all the tribes as Jews.

Edited July 13, 2017 by OldCoot

[n2thelight]

2 minutes ago, OldCoot said:

No, Hebrews make up both Israel and Judah.  Let's see..  Jacob, the father of the all the 12 tribes, was renamed Israel by God.  Israel is all the tribes.  The only time there was a separation was during the time when the kingdom was divided.  But since the faithful of the northern kingdom joined with the southern kingdom in 2 Chronicles,  it has meant all 12 tribes.  I already showed examples of NT references of a Levite and a woman from the tribe of Asher being considered Jews.  Both of those tribes were not of the two tribes of the southern kingdom, but are still considered Jews.  Jew does not mean only from the tribe of Judah.  It was collectively applied to all Hebrews from the Babylonian captivity onward.

And Ive shown numerous scriptures that show the two have yet to be joined back together 

[OldCoot]

2 minutes ago, n2thelight said:

And Ive shown numerous scriptures that show the two have yet to be joined back together 

Only because that is you have a preconceived idea on what the scripture says and you conveniently choose to avoid those scriptures that show that they joined together prior to the Babylonian captivity.  Since we cannot seem to get off this merry go round, then we will just have to disagree.  You will not be able to convince me, and scripture will not be able to convince you.  Now it has become an argument of contention.  Paul talked about this in Titus 3:9-11 so I bow out of this foolishness.

[n2thelight]

16 minutes ago, OldCoot said:

Only because that is you have a preconceived idea on what the scripture says and you conveniently choose to avoid those scriptures that show that they joined together prior to the Babylonian captivity.  Since we cannot seem to get off this merry go round, then we will just have to disagree.  You will not be able to convince me, and scripture will not be able to convince you.  Now it has become an argument of contention.  Paul talked about this in Titus 3:9-11 so I bow out of this foolishness.

If you from scripture can't see that the two sticks will not be joined until the return of Christ.I didn't avoid the scriptures as scripture does say some did return,yet you ignore the scriptures that show they didn't.

[n2thelight]

Children of Israel Bible Study

When you ask most people who are the children of Israel, most will say the Jewish people. Well, they would be right to a point but the children of Israel are made up of more than just the Jewish people. Seeing that it was God's idea for the children of Israel and the nation of Israel, there is no better place to find information on their beginning than the Bible.

The first thing we need to know about the children of Israel is that Israel is the name of a man.

Genesis 32:28

V28 And He said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

God changes Jacob's name to Israel. This is the first time that the word Israel is used in the Bible.

Lets get some more information on Jacob.

Genesis 35:9-12

V9 And God appeared unto Jacob again, when he came out of Padan-aram, and blessed him.
V10 And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and He called his name Israel.

The El at the end of Israel is one of the names of God. Israel means God rules.

V11 And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;

God told Israel that "a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee". What most people call modern day Israel just does not fit all that description. God scattered the children of Israel and today most of the children of Israel do not even live in the nation of Israel. The nation of Israel today is mostly the tribes of Judah and Benjamin.

V12 And the land which I gave Abraham and Isaac, to thee I will give it, and to thy seed after thee will I give the land.

The covenant that God made with Abraham, God has made with his grandson Jacob.

So far we have learned that it was Jacob that had his name changed to Israel and that God has passed on the Abrahmic covenant to him. We still need to learn if the children of Israel are only the Jewish people. In Genesis 49:1-28 is a list of the twelve sons of Israel and the blessing that their father Israel gave them. Here is a list of the twelve tribes of Israel.

Twelve tribes of Israel

1. Reuben
2. Simeon
3. Levi
4. Judah
5. Zebulun
6. Issachar
7. Dan
8. Gad
9. Asher
10. Naphtali
11. Joseph
12. Benjamin

In Genesis 48 Joseph brought his two sons, Ephraim and Manasseh to his father Israel for a blessing. What Israel did was adopt them by putting his name on the sons of Joseph. So from that time on, Ephraim and Manasseh were part of the children of Israel. Also part of the blessing Israel gave to the sons of Joseph is that Manasseh would become a great nation and Ephraim would be a company of nations. Does this sound like what most people call the nation of Israel today?

Now we know all the names of the people that make up the tribes of Israel. Lets find out who the Jewish people descended from.

The word Jew is used ten times in the Old Testament and each time the same Hebrew word is used. Lets take a look at the definition of Jew from the Strong's Concordance.

Jew 3064 Yehuwdiy (yeh-hoo-dee'); patronymically from 3063; a Jehudite (i.e. Judaite or Jew), or descendant of Jehudah (i.e. Judah).
3063 Yehuwdah (yeh-hoo-daw'); from 3034; celebrated; Jehudah (or Judah), the name of five Israelites; also of the tribe descended from the first, and of its territory.

In the New Testament the word Jew is used twenty two times and each time the same Greek word is used. Lets take a look at the definition of Jew from the Strong's Concordance.

Jew 2453 Ioudaios (ee-oo-dah'-yos); from 2448 (in the sense of 2455 as a country); Judaean, i.e. belonging to Jehudah.
2455 Ioudas (ee-oo-das'); of Hebrew origin [3063]; Judas (i.e. Jehudah), the name of ten Israelites; also of the posterity of one of them and its region.

So we see that people that have Jewish blood in them are descended from Judah. Israel's son, Judah, was the first Jewish person in the Bible.

So now you might be wondering what does this mean? What this means is that there are millions of people on earth today that have absolutely no idea that they are the true children of Israel. The Jewish people are only a part of the children of Israel, not all of them. Well if the Jewish people are only part of the children of Israel, where are the rest of them? To answer that question, I'll ask another question. Which nations on earth today are the most blessed? The Christian nations. Remember the blessing that Israel gave to Ephraim, one of Joseph's sons, that he would become a company of nations? Ephraim today is better known as Great Britain. What about Joseph's other son, Manasseh? In the blessing that Israel gave Manasseh, he said that Manasseh would become a great nation. Let me ask you this, which Christian nation is more blessed than any other? The United States of America. Manasseh is better know as the United States of America toady. Don't think for one minute that it is an accident that America is so blessed by Almighty God. Regardless of what some people would want you to believe, the United States of America is one nation under God and we always will be. People from every single tribe of the children of Israel live in the United States today. That is why the United States of America is more blessed by Almighty God than any other nation on earth today.

[n2thelight]

Curiosity question 

What sect of Jew's go by the talmud?

Don't know if sect was the right word.

[brakelite]

On 12/07/2017 at 5:58 PM, n2thelight said:

Revelation 12 v 1-6 is an account of the first earth age

Where do you see Churches?

Women in Bible propecy are symbols of the church. A pure faithful woman, (Isa 54:4-6; Jer 6:2; Isa 51:16; Hosea 2:19,20; )God's people, a harlot, an apostate church. (Ezek. 16; Jer 3:20; James 4:4; )

The reference in Revelation 12 does not refer to Mary, as giving birth, but to Israel,  to the church, God's true people who waited in expectation of their Messiah, such as Simeon and Anna, as opposed to the majority of the priests and religious leaders of the day who didn't have a clue.

It's the same today. Only those waiting in expectation, "looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our savior Jesus Christ", Titus 2:13, are a part of that same group of people. 

You all should be far far more concerned about Matthew 24:9 
 ‭Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.‭ ...which warns us of a time soon coming when all nations shall hate the last remnant of Christ's church. See also Luke 21:17 
 ‭And ye shall be hated of all ‭men‭ for my name’s sake.‭ 

 

[n2thelight]

13 hours ago, brakelite said:

Women in Bible propecy are symbols of the church. A pure faithful woman, (Isa 54:4-6; Jer 6:2; Isa 51:16; Hosea 2:19,20; )God's people, a harlot, an apostate church. (Ezek. 16; Jer 3:20; James 4:4; )

The reference in Revelation 12 does not refer to Mary, as giving birth, but to Israel,  to the church, God's true people who waited in expectation of their Messiah, such as Simeon and Anna, as opposed to the majority of the priests and religious leaders of the day who didn't have a clue.

It's the same today. Only those waiting in expectation, "looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our savior Jesus Christ", Titus 2:13, are a part of that same group of people. 

You all should be far far more concerned about Matthew 24:9 
 ‭Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.‭ ...which warns us of a time soon coming when all nations shall hate the last remnant of Christ's church. See also Luke 21:17 
 ‭And ye shall be hated of all ‭men‭ for my name’s sake.‭ 

 

Revelation 12:1 "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

In this chapter twelve we leave the last three and a half year period, and return all the way back to the world that was [the first earth age]; and some of the events that happened in the world that was. Then we take a fast sweep through God's plan up to the first day of the Millennium. All of these events recorded in this twelfth chapter may be some-what confusing to you.

This "wonder" is a great sign in the heavens. The "woman" here is not the church, for a church building has never delivered any child. This "mother" has nothing to do with the church. This woman is "Israel", the twelve sons of Jacob, or tribes [John 16:21].

The same political and social order that was in existence at the end of the first earth age, prior to this age of flesh man, will be ruling over the earth at the end of our current earth age. Fix in your mind that the time period that is being spoken of here is that time when the souls of men were not in the flesh, it was in that first earth age before the events following Genesis 1:2.

Revelation 12:2 "And she being with child, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered."

This "child" to be delivered is the Messiah, and the woman delivering the child is the symbol of "Israel", however, in the physical sense of this earth age, we call her "Mary". It is Satan's sole purpose to destroy this child. This woman is the wife and the son of Almighty God, and God wants us to feel and understand the events occurring then. What happens to them affects Him, exactly as it would you or I in a similar case.

Revelation 12:3 "And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, haven seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads."

This wonder, the "Great red dragon", is always Satan. Here again, it is all happening in heaven, prior to Genesis 1:2, in the first earth age. All these events will be just like it will be at the end of this earth age. Satan had seven dominions then, with ten agencies of power and that had their authority. Satan had complete universal control over that prior earth kingdom; and he had total political control. This we will see in Revelation 13, is a copy of this earth age, and the United Nations, with it's ten units of power, taking control over all it's dominions. Though the forms of government and their systems appear at first to be the same, we will see the differences between these two ages: That of the first, and the flesh age we are now in.

Revelation 12:4 "And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born."

The "stars" of heaven are the "sons of God". This "old dragon" caused one third of all of God's creation to follow him. One third of God's children, are all those in their "soul bodies", are also called "angelic souls". No my friend, they do not have wings, but the cherubs do.

What it is saying here, is through Satan's fall in the first earth age, he drew one third of God's children to him. He caused them to fall, and they worshipped him, and believed in him to be their God. That is also his desire also for this age; to cause you and I, the children of God, to worship him.

When we read that "all living came from mother Eve", it means that "Messiah came from, or through mother Eve". He came through the offspring of mothers Eve, and Mary. And it is through the Messiah, Christ is offering eternal life to all mankind. For acceptance of God's gift, all mankind must pass from death to eternal life through the blood of Jesus Christ. So we see this refers to spiritual life, and not necessarily physical life.

Revelation 12:5 "And she brought forth a man child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne."

The "man child" that was brought forth in the little town of Bethlehem when Jesus the Christ child was born. There are only two events that sit upon this throne, and the only one to do this was a child. Get it? That child is Jesus Christ.

This verse covers two advents [comings]; the first is Christ's birth as a child, and His second coming will be at the seventh trumpet. Then He will come to rule all nations with a rod of iron. Jesus Christ will come as the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

Revelation 12:6 "And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her a thousand two hundred and threescore days."

This time is when God's protection is given for the woman "Israel". Following the resurrection, and transposing these days into years, it would bring us up to the early 1800's A.D., when the house of Israel nations became superpowers.

https://www.theseason.org/revelation/revelation12.htm