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When Nations turn against Israel

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Guest shiloh357
1 minute ago, Salty said:

Since God put the "spirit of slumber" upon that blinded part of Israel, it means He will not destroy them since He caused... their blindness. And as I said from the beginning! WHEN that blindness is REMOVED, then they will be able to 'hear', and 'see', with eyes to see and ears to hear, and then will make their choice WITHOUT ANY OUTSIDE INFLUENCE, even with Satan locked in his pit prison for a thousand years!

But until Jesus comes, the MAJORITY of them WILL remain BLINDED BY GOD'S HAND.

During this world, God has 'chosen' an elect remnant out of the seed of Israel, and thus some Jews have not been blinded away from The Gospel. The rabbi who started the Jews For Jesus group converted to Jesus because he began to properly understand the 70 weeks prophecy in the Book of Daniel regarding the time that Messiah would come (1st coming), and then be 'cut off'.

 

The blindness was partial and it was not to keep them from getting saved.  To say that prohibits anyone from salvation is a grotesque, cursed false teaching and should be treated with contempt and derision by all true Christians.

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1 minute ago, shiloh357 said:

The blindness was partial and it was not to keep them from getting saved.  To say that prohibits anyone from salvation is a grotesque, cursed false teaching and should be treated with contempt and derision by all true Christians.

It is not about all Israel being partially blinded.

It is about a part... of Israel that God has blinded away from The Gospel so The Gospel would go to the Gentiles.

That part... of Israel are the majority of Jews, even the Jews which agreed to have Jesus crucified!

It was not the ten tribes, because they were already removed and gone out of the land before Jesus' 1st coming. Only the "house of Judah" (Jews) was left in the southern lands of Israel.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Perhaps you don't understand the interplay between God's sovereignty and man's choice based on Scripture. Petty personal jabs won't help here.

Either one accepts what Paul said below (in red), or they don't:

Rom 11:8
8(According as it is written,
God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
KJV

Rom 11:26-29
26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
KJV

 

 

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Guest shiloh357
4 minutes ago, Salty said:

It is not about all Israel being partially blinded.

It is about a part... of Israel that God has blinded away from The Gospel so The Gospel would go to the Gentiles.

It is not that any of them were blinded away from being able to receive Christ.   God doesn't put up roadblocks to anyone getting saved.  The notion  that God consigned some people to hell so that others could be saved is just offensive to any Bible believer .

Quote

 

That part... of Israel are the majority of Jews, even the Jews which agreed to have Jesus crucified!

It was not the ten tribes, because they were already removed and gone out of the land before Jesus' 1st coming. Only the "house of Judah" (Jews) was left in the southern lands of Israel.

 

Where do you get the notion  that none of the 10 tribes were in the land at that time?   All of Israel from north to south was in habited during the first century.  Jesus was Galilean from the North.

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Guest shiloh357
Just now, Salty said:

Either one accepts what Paul said below (in red), or they don't:

What you don't seem to be able to comprehend is that we accept what Paul said.  We don't accept your perverted interpretation of what Paul said.

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Just now, shiloh357 said:

It is not that any of them were blinded away from being able to receive Christ.   God doesn't put up roadblocks to anyone getting saved.  The notion  that God consigned some people to hell so that others could be saved is just offensive to any Bible believer .

Where do you get the notion  that none of the 10 tribes were in the land at that time?   All of Israel from north to south was in habited during the first century.  Jesus was Galilean from the North.

You yourself appear to have been 'blinded' by that "spirit of slumber", it is obvious.

Let's do a little test...

Do you believe Jesus of Nazareth is GOD come in the flesh???

 

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2 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Where do you get the notion  that none of the 10 tribes were in the land at that time?   All of Israel from north to south was in habited during the first century.  Jesus was Galilean from the North.

Well, actually, only a REMNANT of the northern ten tribes migrated south and joined with the "house of Judah" in Jeroboam's days, because of the golden calves idols he setup in the north. But that certainly was NOT the majority of the ten tribes. The majority stayed in the north and were removed by the kings of Assyria long before Jesus' 1st coming.

Since you don't recognize this from GOD'S HOLY WRIT, it shows you don't have any business even commenting on the matter.

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Guest shiloh357
Just now, Salty said:

Well, actually, only a REMNANT of the northern ten tribes migrated south and joined with the "house of Judah" in Jeroboam's days, because of the golden calves idols he setup in the north. But that certainly was NOT the majority of the ten tribes. The majority stayed in the north and were removed by the kings of Assyria long before Jesus' 1st coming.

Since you don't recognize this from GOD'S HOLY WRIT, it shows you don't have any business even commenting on the matter.

I recognize the whole the Bible and believe the whole Bible.   I just don't believe YOU and your errant interpretations and your slander against God's character.

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Guest shiloh357
5 minutes ago, Salty said:

You yourself appear to have been 'blinded' by that "spirit of slumber", it is obvious.

Let's do a little test...

Do you believe Jesus of Nazareth is GOD come in the flesh???

 

Of course I do.

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17 hours ago, Salty said:

Heck, the Jews agreed with the scribes and Pharisees to crucify Him!

John 18:37-40
37 Pilate therefore said unto JESUS:  Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

38 Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.
39 But ye have a custom, that I should release unto you one at the passover: will ye therefore that I release unto you the King of the Jews?
40 Then cried they all again, saying, Not this man, but Barabbas. Now Barabbas was a robber.  (Barabbas was a son of Devil, a demon,. Barabbas is a prototype of the false messiah of the Jews which will manifest himself among them now, even now, in the end of the time.) 

Pilate sought to release JESUS: but the Jews cried out, saying, If you let this man go, you are not Caesar's friend: whosoever makes himself a king speaks against Caesar. And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and Pilate said unto the Jews, Behold your King! But the Jews cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate said unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.  (Caesar was a son of Devil, a demon, like Barabbas)
16 Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led Him away.
 

17 hours ago, Salty said:

I never denied that our Lord Jesus was rejected by His Own.

I work with the Word of God, by  the way, the Word is God, yes, the Word is God.
The Word made flesh said: Matt.7:211-23
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; 
22 Many will say to me in that Day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
 

17 hours ago, Salty said:

But their act did NOT seal their destruction, as you obviously wrongly...  suggest.

What prevails is the Word of God. The Word is God. 

Who suggest their destruction like Sodom and Gomorrah were, was/is the prophet of the Lord. Esaias prophesied:  " Except the Lord of hosts had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha. "  (What does this mean? To be made like Sodom and Gomorrah? What happened to Sodom and Gomorrah? Were not they totally destroyed? )
From the nation of Israel, whose great city - Jerusalem or Aholibah the whore - which is actually Sodom and Egypt spiritually in this time of Apocalypse (Rev.11:v.8), "except the Lord of hosts leave a seed" , i.e. the 144.000 of all 12 tribes of Israel (Rev.7:1-8), "Paul and Christ's Apostles included",-  the nation of Israel WOULD disappear being destroyed as were Sodom and Gomorrah. So, Israel will not be destroyed by entire as Sodom and Gomorrah because will be saved 144.000 of the twelve tribes. 
 

17 hours ago, Salty said:

Who made you judge and jury? You are not God, and certainly do NOT know His thoughts, like you accuse me of!!!

I work with the Word of God.  God is the Word. The Word is God. 

What says the Word? 
Do ye not know that the saints shall Judge the world? and if the world shall be Judged by you, are ye unworthy to Judge the smallest matters? 
3 Know ye not that we shall Judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
Psalms 149:4-9
4 For the Lord taketh pleasure in His people: He will beautify the meek with salvation.
5 Let the saints be joyful in glory: let them sing aloud upon their beds.
6 Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a two-edged Sword in their hand;
7 To execute vengeance upon the heathen, and punishments upon the people;
8 To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron;
9 To execute upon them the Judgment written: this honour have all his saints. Praise ye the Lord.


 

 

17 hours ago, Salty said:

These verses are about the unbelieving Jews mainly, but ALSO including ANY born of the seed of Jacob that refuses Jesus of Nazareth as The Messiah:

Rom 11:7-12
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it,
and the rest were blinded

8(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumbling block, and a recompence unto them:

10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
KJV

If you are saying those above Romans 11:7-12 verses is NOT about God Himself putting that "spirit of slumber" upon those of Israel that rejected Jesus, then you bear FALSE WITNESS AGAINST GOD AND HIS WORD.

Here goes what I said for you in my post above, beyond other details:
You said:  -   >>"these Jews will have the "spirit of slumber" removed which God put upon them, and then they will understand who our Lord Jesus is, and that they crucified The Son of God",<<   -   but what you have written is not true and will not happen absolutely, as follow:

-  The "spirit of slumber' will not be removed as you said, more precisely, was not removed from two thousand years ago until today, and will not be removed, by the contrary, for the Jews are waiting their peculiar messiah, not JESUS. Do not you know that the Jews are waiting the manifestation of their peculiar messiah, who will sit in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God?  In truth he is a false messiah, a false lamb, an IMPOSTOR, the Red Dragon.  Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders (Rev. 13:11-18 & 2 The.2 & Rev.12:3-4).
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth (JESUS is truth), that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 
Now, now, how can the "spirit of slumber" be removed of the Jews if the own the Most High and Almighty God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie?  That they all might be damned who believed not the truth (believed not in JESUS), but had pleasure in unrighteousness. The  Jews are not waiting JESUS, evidently, but their false messiah, the MAN of sin, the SON of perdition, the own Satan incarnated, the Red Dragon. 

What is written in the Word of God? Isaiah 6:9-10
9 And He (God) said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed. 

What is the cause of the "spirit of slumber" of the Jews?
Isaiah reveals: 29:9-10
9 Stay yourselves, and wonder; cry ye out, and cry: they are drunken, but not with wine; they stagger, but not with strong drink.
10 For the Lord hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets, and your rulers, the seers, hath He covered.
Psalms 74:9 - 9 We see not our signs: there is no more any prophet: neither is there among us any that knoweth how long.

The prophet sent by God to the people of Israel was the eyes of the people, the absence of the true prophet in Israel was the cause of the people of Israel falling into a deep sleep, not only this, they also walk like blinds.

 

 

18 hours ago, Salty said:

And these following verses also...

Rom 11:23-29
23 And they also,
if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
KJV

 

They are CHOSEN by God, you white-washed wall! You cannot condemn them to the "lake of fire", you false mortared wall that will come down with God's storm!

 

You are being evasive and speaking without understanding.  Who condemned them to the lake of fire is the own God, the Word is God. The Word made flesh said to the Jews: Matt.23:33 & John 12:v.48~50
He said: Matthew 23:33 -  Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
He said more: John 12:48-50

48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that Judgeth him: the Word that I have spoken, the same shall Judge him in the last Day.
49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

Romans 2:7-29
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew FIRST, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew FIRST, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.


12 For as many as have sinned without law (the Gentiles) shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law (the Jews) shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

16 In the day when God shall Judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;
19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.
21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.

25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

 

Almost two thousand years ago, the angel ascended from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, saying: Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of OUR God in their foreheads. 
And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
Only and only these 144.000 of the twelve tribes of Israel are the CHOSEN of God. The desolation of Israel is at door. 
JESUS left very clear, saying : Luke 21:22-24
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 

23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.  
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the Sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. (This prophecy of the Lord has ALREADY fufilled LITERALLY)
 

 

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