When Nations turn against Israel

[ARGOSY]

1 minute ago, Yowm said:

The Church has been made partakers of the spiritual blessings of Israel, we have not replaced Israel. Read Romans 11 carefully.

I never said we replaced Israel. The church is Israel because we as you say we are partakers of the blessings of Israel. The actual net effect of us being allowed to join Israel, and Jewish unbelievers being removed from Israel, is that the Israel vine is only made up of the church.

 

[ARGOSY]

But you guys are welcome to put forward your views on the vine of Romans 11. I'm keen to hear if you make sense or not.

[ARGOSY]

3 minutes ago, Yowm said:

God will still be dealing with His people the Jews in a specific way to fulfill specific land promises as well.

True, I believe in the dual destiny of Israel. Israel will have a revival and many will be saved to eternal life during the great tribulation. This is reflected in Romans 12:25

Not only that blessing, but ethnic Israel will be given long life and prosperity in the land of Israel during the Messianic Age. They are not saved because they are mortal. This mortal yet blessed Israel is reflected in Ezekiel 40-48, Isaiah 65 , Zechariah 12/13 amongst other verses.

[ARGOSY]

7 minutes ago, Yowm said:

So the judgment of the Nations (Gentiles) will not involve the Jewish unbelievers?

Matthew 25:31-32 NKJV
[31] "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. [32] All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. etc.

 

I regard Israel as the chief nation. Chief sheep. Judged well because they treat Christians well.

[ARGOSY]

2 minutes ago, Yowm said:

No where do the Scriptures call the Church 'true Isral' not even in Gal 6:16.

True Israel is probably not the best term. 

Christians are Jews inwardly according to Romans 2:28, ethnic Jews are NOT Jews if only one outwardly. Would "true Jew" or just "Jew" apply to those circumcised of heart, seeing as unsaved Jews are not Jews according to Romans 2:28? Am I allowed to call us Jews? The Bible says I can?

Are we the children of the promise according to Romans 9? If so we are also Israel, are we not? According to Romans 9?

Are we part of the Israel olive tree of Romans 11? Seems we are but unbelieving Jews are not. 

 

 

Romans 2:28 A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29 No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code.

Romans 9: not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.

Romans 11 some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root........“Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith

Luke 3:8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham.

Galations 3:7 Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. 8 Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”[d] 9 So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

[ARGOSY]

4 minutes ago, Yowm said:

I see Scriptures always making a clear distinction between Israel and the Nations and overlapping similarities / distinctives between Israel and the Church.

The distinction is clear in context. Sometimes context refers to the church, both Jew and Gentile as Israel. Sometimes context is pretty clear only ethnic Israel is in mind.

[ARGOSY]

3 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Rom 2:28 is making a comparison Between natural born Jews who have the faith of Abraham and those who don't. IOW circumcision and heredity does not make one a true Jew...

Romans 2:25-29 NKJV
[25] For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. [26] Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? [27] And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? [28] For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; [29] but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

 

Romans 9, same principle applies.

And Galatians 3:7?

[ARGOSY]

4 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Yes we are spiritual sons of Abraham by faith in the promises but not Jews.

We are the Body of Christ (One New Man) made up of both believing Jews and Gentiles called the Church.

Ephesians 2:14-15 NKJV
[14] For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, [15] having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,

 

Well knowing we are Abrahams children through faith, and knowing we have been grafted into the Israel olive tree, we are partakers of the blessing and inheritance of Israel. Yet unbelieving Jews are not, and are not even called Jews according to Romans 2. I can see some subtle distinction between us becoming part of Israel through faith, or merely receiving their inheritance. Do you think there's any further significance I may be missing?

 

[iamlamad]

On 10/29/2018 at 9:57 AM, Yowm said:

Yes we are spiritual sons of Abraham by faith in the promises but not Jews.

We are the Body of Christ (One New Man) made up of both believing Jews and Gentiles called the Church.

Ephesians 2:14-15 NKJV
[14] For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, [15] having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,

 

Good post.

[ARGOSY]

On 10/29/2018 at 4:35 PM, Yowm said:

I see Scriptures always making a clear distinction between Israel and the Nations and overlapping similarities / distinctives between Israel and the Church.

Very true.