Calvinism versus Arminianism

[missmuffet]

Which belief do you hold? I go more towards Arminianism.

[Jayne]

I definitely shun Calvinism in it's orthodox form.  It just doesn't fit the gospel of the Bible to me.

But - I think that classic Arminians believe you can lose your salvation - someone correct me on that if I am wrong.

Ergo - I am neither. 

[SINNERSAVED]

I believe we need to figure out the good Christians from the Bad Christians for there is many wolves in sheeps clothing and so when we figure that out, then we can see where the Calvinism,. sits on what fence,

I don't think most people understand what they truly believe, for there is too much division, in the denominations of the churches and the sides we all take, in general its become, to confusing ?

 I think its lack of understanding the scriptures and placing it in our lives correctly ?

thank you shalom

[Butch5]

Neither!

 

[Omegaman 3.0]

I guess I would go with Calvinism, if I have to place myself in one of those camps. However, I do not like the term for a few reasons. When people think of Calvinism, they usually think of the 5 points sometimes referred to by the acronym T.U.L.I.P.

Calvin did not come up with TULIP, and the Tulip is a response to the 5 objections that followers of Jacob Armius had, to teachings of John Calvin. The so called 5 points of Calvinism, were answers to the 5 objections of the Aminians. Calvin was a whole lot more that the 5 points. As a result of this debate between the followers of Calvin, and the followers of Arminias, the five objections of the Arminian camp, came to be declared  to be heresy, at the Synod of Dort.

I do not accept everything that Calvin has to say, and I think he had some character flaws, so I do not like to call myself a Calvinist. Instead, I do agree with the 5 points never-the-less, that Calvin understaood as Luther's and Paul's theology, and I agree with Calvin and Paul, on those 5 particular issues. To me, these 5 things are a small part of Ne Testament theology and a key features, or tradition protestant or reformation theology. 

There are some people, sometimes called Hyper-Calvinists, and I dissociate myself from their misguided views.

Probably my largest objection to the Arminian few,is I believe it deprives God of Glory, by instead of salvation being soley by grace, it puts man in control of his own salvation, claiming that man is the one who decides to believe, and that results in salvation, instead of God choosing in eternity who He will save by giving them the faith to believe.

I repented of Arminianism, about in 2013 I believe, and am so glad to have a fuller understanding of God's grace and how it is only because of Him, that any are saved.

Addendum:

I thought that I would add, that there are some who call themselves a 4 point Calvinist, or things like that, meaning that they agree with part of the Tulip, not all of it. However, that is a poor description, as if it is less than those five, it is something other than 'Calvinism"

Think of it like this: Suppose there was something similar for Christianity.

Jesus Virgin Conception
Jesus Sinless Life
Jesus Substitutionary Death on the Cross, to Pay the Penalty of Sin for Believers
Jesus Bodily Resurrection from the Dead
Jesus Future Return and Judgment 

Now suppose a person were to say, "I am a 4 point Christian, I do not believe He rose from the dead!"

I am sorry, but if you do not believe in  His Resurrection, then you are not really a Christian

[angels4u]

10 minutes ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

I guess I would go with Calvinism, if I have to place myself in one of those camps. However, I do not like the term for a few reasons. When people think of Calvinism, they usually think of the 5 points sometimes referred to by the acronym T.U.L.I.P.

Calvin did not come up with TULIP, and the Tulip is a response to the 5 objections that followers of Jacob Armius had, to teachings of John Calvin. The so called 5 points of Calvinism, were answers to the 5 objections of the Aminians. Calvin was a whole lot more that the 5 points. As a result of this debate between the followers of Calvin, and the followers of Arminias, the five objections of the Arminian camp, came to be declared  to be heresy, at the Synod of Dort.

I do not accept everything that Calvin has to say, and I think he had some character flaws, so I do not like to call myself a Calvinist. Instead, I do agree with the 5 points never-the-less, that Calvin understaood as Luther's and Paul's theology, and I agree with Calvin and Paul, on those 5 particular issues. To me, these 5 things are a small part of Ne Testament theology and a key features, or tradition protestant or reformation theology. 

There are some people, sometimes called Hyper-Calvinists, and I dissociate myself from their misguided views.

Probably my largest objection to the Arminian few,is I believe it deprives God of Glory, by instead of salvation being soley by grace, it puts man in control of his own salvation, claiming that man is the one who decides to believe, and that results in salvation, instead of God choosing in eternity who He will save by giving them the faith to believe.

I repented of Arminianism, about in 2013 I believe, and am so glad to have a fuller understanding of God's grace and how it is only because of Him, that any are saved.

Addendum:

I thought that I would add, that there are some who call themselves a 4 point Calvinist, or things like that, meaning that they agree with part of the Tulip, not all of it. However, that is a poor description, as if it is less than those five, it is something other than 'Calvinism"

Think of it like this: Suppose there was something similar for Christianity.

Jesus Virgin Conception
Jesus Sinless Life
Jesus Substitutionary Death on the Cross, to Pay the Penalty of Sin for Believers
Jesus Bodily Resurrection from the Dead
Jesus Future Return and Judgment 

Now suppose a person were to say, "I am a 4 point Christian, I do not believe He rose from the dead!"

I am sorry, but if you do not believe in  His Resurrection, then you are not really a Christian

 

 I guess the Dutch people did~~

Calvin did not come up with TULIP

[Omegaman 3.0]

Just now, angels4u said:

 I guess the Dutch people did~~

Calvin did not come up with TULIP

You are correct, Holland was quite a breeding ground for the reformation, having more religious freedom than most of Europe.

[St_Worm2]

26 minutes ago, angels4u said:

Actually , I think I'm 80%Calvinist 20 % Armenian

Hi Angels4U, I'm curious, which of the 5 "petals" of TULIP do you disagree with, "Limited Atonement"?

 

[enoob57]

Because of the defined instance of being after fall, required parameter of choice throughout the Word of God, foreknowledge undefined
I can agree with perseverance of the saints and total depravity with the exception of [grace driven faith} installation by infused Word of God
by hearing ... 1.75 agreeance
Love, Steven 

[Omegaman 3.0]

I can see how some reading this, may not even know what we are talking about with regard to the TULIP thng, so for their sake, I will attempt to explain it, at least as I understand it, and try to  make if somewhat simple.

Basic idea of the TULIP

T - Total depravity	This does not mean that people are as evil as possible. I means that since people are damaged  by sin, they are spiritually blind, spiritually deaf, have hardened hearts, are prisoners to sin, Our inability to save ourselves is TOTAL
U - Unconditional election	The idea here, is that God chose us in eternity, before the foundation of the world, to be rescued. saved, We are not informed why, so t is UNCONDITIONAL, as far as we can tell, why God chose who He chose, other than His own soveriegn will, for His good pleasure.
L - Limited atonement	The atonement, the price or ransom  that Jesus paid on the cross, is sufficient to cover all sin. However, it is LIMITED  to those who God chose to give the faith to believe.
I - Irresistible grace	Everyone resists God, but the grace He exerts on those He chose, is too powerful resist, we cannot overpower His choice. His grace is therefore, IRRESISTIBLE.
P - Perseverance of the saints	Those God has chosen will win the fight of faith. They will PERSEVERE to the end, so that none will be lost. This is the promise of the New Testament