missmuffet Posted May 16, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.82 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted May 16, 2016 Which belief do you hold? I go more towards Arminianism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayne Posted May 16, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 106 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 3,810 Content Per Day: 1.29 Reputation: 4,793 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted May 16, 2016 I definitely shun Calvinism in it's orthodox form. It just doesn't fit the gospel of the Bible to me. But - I think that classic Arminians believe you can lose your salvation - someone correct me on that if I am wrong. Ergo - I am neither. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SINNERSAVED Posted May 16, 2016 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 6 Topic Count: 150 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,195 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 2,409 Days Won: 14 Joined: 07/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted May 16, 2016 I believe we need to figure out the good Christians from the Bad Christians for there is many wolves in sheeps clothing and so when we figure that out, then we can see where the Calvinism,. sits on what fence, I don't think most people understand what they truly believe, for there is too much division, in the denominations of the churches and the sides we all take, in general its become, to confusing ? I think its lack of understanding the scriptures and placing it in our lives correctly ? thank you shalom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butch5 Posted May 20, 2016 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 559 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 136 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/09/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/01/1962 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Neither! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegaman 3.0 Posted May 20, 2016 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 57 Topic Count: 1,546 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 10,320 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 12,323 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1951 Share Posted May 20, 2016 I guess I would go with Calvinism, if I have to place myself in one of those camps. However, I do not like the term for a few reasons. When people think of Calvinism, they usually think of the 5 points sometimes referred to by the acronym T.U.L.I.P. Calvin did not come up with TULIP, and the Tulip is a response to the 5 objections that followers of Jacob Armius had, to teachings of John Calvin. The so called 5 points of Calvinism, were answers to the 5 objections of the Aminians. Calvin was a whole lot more that the 5 points. As a result of this debate between the followers of Calvin, and the followers of Arminias, the five objections of the Arminian camp, came to be declared to be heresy, at the Synod of Dort. I do not accept everything that Calvin has to say, and I think he had some character flaws, so I do not like to call myself a Calvinist. Instead, I do agree with the 5 points never-the-less, that Calvin understaood as Luther's and Paul's theology, and I agree with Calvin and Paul, on those 5 particular issues. To me, these 5 things are a small part of Ne Testament theology and a key features, or tradition protestant or reformation theology. There are some people, sometimes called Hyper-Calvinists, and I dissociate myself from their misguided views. Probably my largest objection to the Arminian few,is I believe it deprives God of Glory, by instead of salvation being soley by grace, it puts man in control of his own salvation, claiming that man is the one who decides to believe, and that results in salvation, instead of God choosing in eternity who He will save by giving them the faith to believe. I repented of Arminianism, about in 2013 I believe, and am so glad to have a fuller understanding of God's grace and how it is only because of Him, that any are saved. Addendum: I thought that I would add, that there are some who call themselves a 4 point Calvinist, or things like that, meaning that they agree with part of the Tulip, not all of it. However, that is a poor description, as if it is less than those five, it is something other than 'Calvinism" Think of it like this: Suppose there was something similar for Christianity. Jesus Virgin Conception Jesus Sinless Life Jesus Substitutionary Death on the Cross, to Pay the Penalty of Sin for Believers Jesus Bodily Resurrection from the Dead Jesus Future Return and Judgment Now suppose a person were to say, "I am a 4 point Christian, I do not believe He rose from the dead!" I am sorry, but if you do not believe in His Resurrection, then you are not really a Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angels4u Posted May 20, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 56 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,764 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 12,164 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Share Posted May 20, 2016 10 minutes ago, Omegaman 3.0 said: I guess I would go with Calvinism, if I have to place myself in one of those camps. However, I do not like the term for a few reasons. When people think of Calvinism, they usually think of the 5 points sometimes referred to by the acronym T.U.L.I.P. Calvin did not come up with TULIP, and the Tulip is a response to the 5 objections that followers of Jacob Armius had, to teachings of John Calvin. The so called 5 points of Calvinism, were answers to the 5 objections of the Aminians. Calvin was a whole lot more that the 5 points. As a result of this debate between the followers of Calvin, and the followers of Arminias, the five objections of the Arminian camp, came to be declared to be heresy, at the Synod of Dort. I do not accept everything that Calvin has to say, and I think he had some character flaws, so I do not like to call myself a Calvinist. Instead, I do agree with the 5 points never-the-less, that Calvin understaood as Luther's and Paul's theology, and I agree with Calvin and Paul, on those 5 particular issues. To me, these 5 things are a small part of Ne Testament theology and a key features, or tradition protestant or reformation theology. There are some people, sometimes called Hyper-Calvinists, and I dissociate myself from their misguided views. Probably my largest objection to the Arminian few,is I believe it deprives God of Glory, by instead of salvation being soley by grace, it puts man in control of his own salvation, claiming that man is the one who decides to believe, and that results in salvation, instead of God choosing in eternity who He will save by giving them the faith to believe. I repented of Arminianism, about in 2013 I believe, and am so glad to have a fuller understanding of God's grace and how it is only because of Him, that any are saved. Addendum: I thought that I would add, that there are some who call themselves a 4 point Calvinist, or things like that, meaning that they agree with part of the Tulip, not all of it. However, that is a poor description, as if it is less than those five, it is something other than 'Calvinism" Think of it like this: Suppose there was something similar for Christianity. Jesus Virgin Conception Jesus Sinless Life Jesus Substitutionary Death on the Cross, to Pay the Penalty of Sin for Believers Jesus Bodily Resurrection from the Dead Jesus Future Return and Judgment Now suppose a person were to say, "I am a 4 point Christian, I do not believe He rose from the dead!" I am sorry, but if you do not believe in His Resurrection, then you are not really a Christian I guess the Dutch people did~~ Calvin did not come up with TULIP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegaman 3.0 Posted May 20, 2016 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 57 Topic Count: 1,546 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 10,320 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 12,323 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1951 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Just now, angels4u said: I guess the Dutch people did~~ Calvin did not come up with TULIP You are correct, Holland was quite a breeding ground for the reformation, having more religious freedom than most of Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St_Worm2 Posted May 20, 2016 Group: Junior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 106 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 88 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/29/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/02/1956 Share Posted May 20, 2016 26 minutes ago, angels4u said: Actually , I think I'm 80%Calvinist 20 % Armenian Hi Angels4U, I'm curious, which of the 5 "petals" of TULIP do you disagree with, "Limited Atonement"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted May 21, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,141 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,438 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Because of the defined instance of being after fall, required parameter of choice throughout the Word of God, foreknowledge undefined I can agree with perseverance of the saints and total depravity with the exception of [grace driven faith} installation by infused Word of God by hearing ... 1.75 agreeance Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegaman 3.0 Posted May 21, 2016 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 57 Topic Count: 1,546 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 10,320 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 12,323 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1951 Share Posted May 21, 2016 I can see how some reading this, may not even know what we are talking about with regard to the TULIP thng, so for their sake, I will attempt to explain it, at least as I understand it, and try to make if somewhat simple. Basic idea of the TULIP T - Total depravity This does not mean that people are as evil as possible. I means that since people are damaged by sin, they are spiritually blind, spiritually deaf, have hardened hearts, are prisoners to sin, Our inability to save ourselves is TOTAL U - Unconditional election The idea here, is that God chose us in eternity, before the foundation of the world, to be rescued. saved, We are not informed why, so t is UNCONDITIONAL, as far as we can tell, why God chose who He chose, other than His own soveriegn will, for His good pleasure. L - Limited atonement The atonement, the price or ransom that Jesus paid on the cross, is sufficient to cover all sin. However, it is LIMITED to those who God chose to give the faith to believe. I - Irresistible grace Everyone resists God, but the grace He exerts on those He chose, is too powerful resist, we cannot overpower His choice. His grace is therefore, IRRESISTIBLE. P - Perseverance of the saints Those God has chosen will win the fight of faith. They will PERSEVERE to the end, so that none will be lost. This is the promise of the New Testament Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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