What is the doctrine of the Trinity?

[JohnD]

On 10/5/2019 at 12:39 AM, Michael37 said:

Very well described, John D. Not to wander off topic but as an adjunct to your analogy, in a spherical model of space, whilst there are 3 planes of orientation at right angles, there are 7 points of location, as follows:

1. Central
2. Up
3. Down
4. Forwards
5.  Backwards
6.  Left
7. Right

This makes me think of the 7 eyes of the Lamb which are the 7 Spirits of God...that see everything!!!

Rev 5:6
(6)  And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Very well said.

The footprint of God is found in the very creation itself.

Not to get really off topic... I have been working on a physics idea (and have been in email contact with the brilliant Barry Setterfield who upset the contemporary science community worldwide with his paper on the slowing down of the speed of light) that gravity is the universe pushing us down to the mass which displaces curved space-time. Carried to it's logical conclusion this would mean there are not only black holes but corresponding white holes on the opposite side in an alternate universe (exchanging quantized protomatter from one universe to the other). The Bible calls that alternate universe heaven. 

Jacob's ladder / stairway for example is a biblical depiction of this exchange from universe to universe. 

It is also a macroscopic depiction of the Messiah himself (God incarnate God become man). 

Proverbs 20:9 (AV)
9 Who can say, I have made my heart clean, I am pure from my sin?

Answer: no one.

God is pure from sin. Jesus became the sin offering for humanity but he had no sin to to clean himself of.

Man is incapable of cleaning himself from sin.

Angels who did not fall remain pure.

Angels who fell remain evil.

Proverbs 20:9 is a messianic verse attesting to the fact that Jesus is sinless. ← just FYI now that I've gone quite far afield about God's nature in this post. 

 

Edited October 6, 2019 by JohnD

[theThinker]

What is the doctrine of the Trinity?

 

The most ridiculous dogma ever fabricated by man...

[Omegaman 3.0]

On 5/19/2016 at 7:01 AM, kwikphilly said:

You do like those looooong articles,,,,,,,Personally I prefer short & sweet,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Yeah, as a mouthy one, I find that hard to do. I tend toward thoroughness, and sacrifice brevity. However, here is an attempt to whittle it down, without dismembering it:

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/273733-gods-triune-nature-aka-the-trinity/

 

[kwikphilly]

Blessings @Omegaman 3.0

Brother, that was EXCELLENT( short, sweet& right on point as well' lol) ....a really good read

  Certainly thorough, I especially like that you emphasized the importance of realizing our small & confined minds, I say " confined" as we are often bound by the limits of time, space & the " natural" order of our physical realm.... Almighty God is not, He Has no boundaries, no limitations.

And so we walk by Faith & not by sight! Thank you for the Bible Study, I love it!!! Oh,& yes, most analogies,I agree- are pretty lame.... I liked your referencing Congress &,our County being both singular & plural at the same time.... &,the peanut!!!! Brilliant!

 Love you- in Christ, your Sis

 

[other one]

It's been a while since I expressed my two cents:

 

Ex 24:9-11 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy
of the elders of Israel: And they saw the God of Israel: and there was
under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it
were the body of heaven in his clearness. And upon the nobles of the
children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat
and drink.
KJV
John 6:44-46 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent
me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in
the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore
that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. Not
that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath
seen the Father.
KJV
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~
Moses and friends saw the God of Israel and were not harmed.
Jesus says that no man has seen the father except He that came from
Him.
So it seems to me that the Father that Jesus speaks of is not what that
the Nation of Israel interfaced with in the Old Testament.
Looking further:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
John 1:1-10 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All
things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that
was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the
light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. There
was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a
witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might
believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that
Light. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh
into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and
the world knew him not.
KJV
John 8:52-58 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a
devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man
keep my saying, he shall never taste of death. Art thou greater than
our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom
makest thou thyself? Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is
nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is
your God: Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should
say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him,
and keep his saying. Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he
saw it, and was glad.
Trinity Thoughts
Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and
hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say
unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
KJV
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It seems to me to be saying that Jesus was what the Nation of Israel
interfaced with in the Old Testament days. Jesus in this form was with
the Father from the beginning.
It seems to me that the people of the Old Testament days were not aware
of the Father except for what they saw through the Jesus in the form he
existed in before he became flesh.
Further:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Phil 2:5-11Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with
God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a
servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in
fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death,
even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted
him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name
of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in
earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess
that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
KJV
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It appears to me that Jesus as the word was that which the Father
worked through to manifest Himself to the people of the Old Testament
times. Jesus did not regard himself to want to be the equal to the
Father so He took the form of a human to further the works of the
Father on earth.
Jesus was deity by being in the form of God, but it was the Father that
did the work through Him when he was the Word. It appears that the only
thing that has changed is Jesus is now flesh working the same way only
as a man. The Father exercises His will through Jesus, now in the
fleshly body.
`~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
John 14:10-11 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the
Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself:
but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Believe me that
I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the
very works' sake.
KJV
John 17:20-26 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which
shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as
thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in
us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory
which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as
we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in
one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved
them, as thou hast loved me. Father, I will that they also, whom thou
hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory,
which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of
the world. O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I
have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me. And I
have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love
wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.
KJV
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It seems to me that Jesus just extended the conduit from Him to us for
the Father to do His work through Jesus to us so we could know the
Father as the Father knows us. Thus we now can do the work of the
Father. I believe this is the path and workings of the Holy Spirit
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
1 Cor 15:20-28 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the
firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man
came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so
in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order:
Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to
God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all
authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies
under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he
hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are
put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all
things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then
shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things
under him, that God may be all in all.
KJV
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jesus, before His ascension told the Apostles that all power and
authority had been given to Him. After he has subdued everything Jesus
will also be subjected to the One who subjected all things to
Him........ The Father.
I don't see the Son always being equal with the Father, either when He
was the word nor in the flesh. He will also be subject to the Father
after He does the job of bringing the kingdom into it's full power over
all and giving it to the Father.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1 Cor 8:4-6 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are
offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the
world, and that there is none other God but one. For though there be
that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods
many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of
whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom
are all things, and we by him.
KJV
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
But to us, there is but one God, The Father of whom all things
came from......
And one Lord, Jesus whom we call the Christ, through which all things
came including us.
And we have the Holy Spirit which was sent to us from the Father at the
request of Jesus.
Interestingly, all three are one in thought, one in purpose, and one in
action. We can't interface with the Father without being indwelt by
the Holy Spirit, and we can't have the Holy Spirit without the
sacrifice and request of Jesus, and we couldn't have had Jesus without
the Father asking Him to do what he has done for us.
You have to have all three or none. And thus they are one.

[Omegaman 3.0]

1 hour ago, kwikphilly said:

&,the peanut!!!! Brilliant!

I cannot take credit for the peanut, I got it from Pastor Kurt Dahlin, a long time ago. I used to keep a peanut like that, near the front door for when Jehovah's witnesses would come knocking, that, and a Greek Bible. When they would tell me that 3 in 1 was logically impossible, or some sort of nonsense, I would have one of them extent their hand to me, palm up. I would place a peanut (no shell) into his hand and say now close your hand, and don't show what you have, nor talk about it, just yet. I would then do the same thing with his companion, only this time, I would give him the whole peanut.

Next I would say to the first guy, can you tell me in one word, what you have in your hand, and he of course would say "peanut"! The looking to the second guy, I would ask: "and what do you have in your hand?" He would say "I also have a peanut!"

I have only done this three times in probably 30 years, but in each time the results were the same, a look of bewilderment, is how I would describe it.

Some years ago, I created that graphic, to use as an illustration on Worthy, thanks for appreciating it.  

[kwikphilly]

 

10 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

probably three times in 3o years

Fantastic! What a great way to get em thinking- 3 is better than none,Praise Jesus!

Im glad you shared the graphic again because I mustve missed it years ago & Ive never heard it before-Its very difficult to try to explain to someone things we Believe simply because God Says so & we Receive the Knowledge from"the Counselor"- things we may not fully understand how it IS so ourselves

  Good one, thanks again❤