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Christ the Centre of the Bible.


Marilyn C

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12 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

Appears no one is interested.  You are in the wrong forum.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Hi Montana Marv,

Thank you for your suggestion. had pondered on that before I posted. However as I`m going to do a `series of topics` that will follow each other, all in relation to end-times, then I do believe it fits here. If you read my OP again you`ll see I said -

`To understand the end-times, I believe we need to look at God`s word from His perspective, His purposes, (as written in His word). Too often we can get caught up in the pre-mid-post debate when actually we need to go higher in our understanding of what God is doing. This thread is just one of such topics that I believe will help us all as we discuss together God`s word from the Christ perspective.`

As to `no one is interested,`....well there have been 97 views at the moment. I wouldn`t call those people, not interested. Maybe people are just appreciating reading, Marv.

Now I need to reply to Zemke who has contributed some good thoughts.

 

Marilyn.

 

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12 hours ago, Zemke said:

The four living creatures we see around the throne, lion, calf, man, eagle.

Also the tribes were separated into four camps each had a specific banner at the head facing the tabernacle. The signet of four tribes heading those camps, lion, ox, man, eagle.

Not sure where my notes are on that. It was years ago I read and sat in on a study about those things. Really wonderful. Also it has been said the four camps going out from the tabernacle and their population would have looked somewhat like a cross from a mountain looking down on the few million people and animal camp.

Hi Zemke,

Pleased to meet you & appreciate your good thoughts which really add to our appreciation of Christ`s ministries. And that is one of the main reason people do not understand the end-times correctly as they are too focussed on the pre-mid-post trib, or the dragon or beasts or earthly things & not really understanding what Christ is doing in each of the areas you have highlighted.

I also remember, way back, doing studies on the Tabernacle & how it all related to Christ & His ministries. You don`t hear much of that now. Too much focus on US, & not on the Lord & what He is doing. Now this is what I believe the 4 creatures represent.

 `And in the midst of the throne, & around the throne, were four living creatures..... like a lion... like a calf....like a man,....like a flying eagle`  (Rev. 4: 6 & 7)

  

Christ the King –  Lion. 

Christ the Sacrifice (Heir) –  Calf.

Christ the Mediator –  Man.

 Christ the Creator –  Eagle.

  

For Christ to fulfil God`s plan, His covenant to man, He needs to function in each area.

  

 Christ is given the ultimate authority to rule, (Lion)

 Christ humbled Himself to be the ultimate sacrifice, (Calf).

 Christ is both God & man to be the Mediator of both, (Man).

 Christ has ultimate power to create all things new, (Eagle). 

  

The `living creatures,` each have 6 wings, & are full of eyes, saying `Holy, holy.` `Wings,` represent movement, functioning, & `eyes,` represent spiritual insight.

 

 ` Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, Who was & is & is to come!` (Rev. 4:8)

  

Thus these `living creatures` are the four ministries of Christ that are functioning continually by the Holy Spirit, with all wisdom & knowledge, displaying God`s holiness.

 

 

Blessings, Marilyn.

 

 

 

                

 

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On 5/21/2016 at 5:40 PM, Marilyn C said:

FORESEEING CHRIST

 

 

In the historical books (Joshua - Esther, 12 books) I believe Christ is foreseen in different appearings - man like or angelic. These, I see, signify the dominion of Christ, His authority & administration.

 

 Joshua saw a `man`  - Prince of the host of the Lord.   (Josh.5: 13 - 15)

 

Gideon saw Him as `the angel of the Lord.`    (Judges 6:12)

 

David saw Him as the `angel of the Lord.`   (1 Chron. 21: 16 - 18) 

 

Solomon saw Him in a dream.     ( 1 Kings 3: 5)  

    

Isaiah saw Him on His Throne.    (2 Chron. 26: 22  with Isa. 6:1) 

 

 

Marilyn.

 

 

I also see Christ as the Angel ( Malak-Messenger ) in several passages. Scripture in John 1:18 says no man has ever seen the Father  "No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him. You also have in Exodus 33:20 "But He said,: You cannot see my face, for no man can see Me and live. Also in 1 John 4:12 " No one has seen God at any time......Yet you have several passages throughout scripture that start off showing an encounter with the Angel of YHVH, and by the end of the passage it appears that it is God Himself speaking. Here are several passages to consider............

Genesis 48:16 "  The angel who has redeemed me from all evil,Bless the lads;  

 Psalm 34:7  The angel of the Lord encamps around those who fear Him,And rescues them.

Pay close attention to the words of the Angel of Adonai and How He speaks with authority in Judges 2:1-5:

Now the angel of the Lord came up from Gilgal to Bochim. And he said, “I brought you up out of Egypt and led you into the land which I have sworn to your fathers; and I said, ‘I will never break My covenant with you, and as for you, you shall make no covenant with the inhabitants of this land; you shall tear down their altars.’ But you have not obeyed Me; what is this you have done? Therefore I also said, ‘I will not drive them out before you; but they will become as thorns in your sides and their gods will be a snare to you.’” When the angel of the Lord spoke these words to all the sons of Israel, the people lifted up their voices and wept. So they named that place Bochim; and there they sacrificed to the Lord.

Jacob wrestled with this Angel of YHVH in Genesis chapter 32 and made the statement in verse 30 " SO Jacob named the place Peniel, for he said, " I have seen God face to face, yet my life has been preserved."

In Judges chapter 13, Samson's parents were visted by the Angel of YHVH with instructions for their future son. After the visit in Judges 13:22" So Manoah said to his wife, " We will surely die, for we have seen God."

Exodus 23:20 " 20 “Behold, I am going to send an angel before you to guard you along the way and to bring you into the place which I have prepared. 21 Be on your guard before him and obey his voice; do not be rebellious toward him, for he will not pardon your transgression, since My name is in him.

Even in Exodus chapter 3 where Moses encounters the burning bush. The Angel of YHVH starts off speaking to Moses, but by verse 6 the text reads as if God Himself is speaking to Moses. Scripture says in Colossians 1:15  He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. It looks to me as if when people encounted this Messenger of God, that they were encountering Christ who is the image of the Father. A few of them thought they were as good as dead because they saw God, yet scripture says no man has seen God the Father. Don't forget Hagar in Genesis chapter 16 has an encounter with the Angel of YHVH and ends up saying 

Genesis 16:13  Then she called the name of the LORD who spoke to her, "You are a God who sees"; for she said, "Have I even remained alive here after seeing Him?"

Could you imagine the teaching that they 2 disciples got on the road to Emmaus from Yeshua Himself?

Luke 24:44-45  44 Now He said to them, “These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,

I can't make a 100% definitive statement that Christ is the Angel of YHVH, but it sure reads that way to me. And I can't help but get a little excited reading the passages that way, seeing that Christ was always doing the Father's will and interacting with people.

 

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4 hours ago, ((Michael)) said:

I also see Christ as the Angel ( Malak-Messenger ) in several passages. Scripture in John 1:18 says no man has ever seen the Father  "No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him. You also have in Exodus 33:20 "But He said,: You cannot see my face, for no man can see Me and live. Also in 1 John 4:12 " No one has seen God at any time......Yet you have several passages throughout scripture that start off showing an encounter with the Angel of YHVH, and by the end of the passage it appears that it is God Himself speaking. Here are several passages to consider............

Genesis 48:16 "  The angel who has redeemed me from all evil,Bless the lads;  

 Psalm 34:7  The angel of the Lord encamps around those who fear Him,And rescues them.

Pay close attention to the words of the Angel of Adonai and How He speaks with authority in Judges 2:1-5:

Now the angel of the Lord came up from Gilgal to Bochim. And he said, “I brought you up out of Egypt and led you into the land which I have sworn to your fathers; and I said, ‘I will never break My covenant with you, and as for you, you shall make no covenant with the inhabitants of this land; you shall tear down their altars.’ But you have not obeyed Me; what is this you have done? Therefore I also said, ‘I will not drive them out before you; but they will become as thorns in your sides and their gods will be a snare to you.’” When the angel of the Lord spoke these words to all the sons of Israel, the people lifted up their voices and wept. So they named that place Bochim; and there they sacrificed to the Lord.

Jacob wrestled with this Angel of YHVH in Genesis chapter 32 and made the statement in verse 30 " SO Jacob named the place Peniel, for he said, " I have seen God face to face, yet my life has been preserved."

In Judges chapter 13, Samson's parents were visted by the Angel of YHVH with instructions for their future son. After the visit in Judges 13:22" So Manoah said to his wife, " We will surely die, for we have seen God."

Exodus 23:20 " 20 “Behold, I am going to send an angel before you to guard you along the way and to bring you into the place which I have prepared. 21 Be on your guard before him and obey his voice; do not be rebellious toward him, for he will not pardon your transgression, since My name is in him.

Even in Exodus chapter 3 where Moses encounters the burning bush. The Angel of YHVH starts off speaking to Moses, but by verse 6 the text reads as if God Himself is speaking to Moses. Scripture says in Colossians 1:15  He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. It looks to me as if when people encounted this Messenger of God, that they were encountering Christ who is the image of the Father. A few of them thought they were as good as dead because they saw God, yet scripture says no man has seen God the Father. Don't forget Hagar in Genesis chapter 16 has an encounter with the Angel of YHVH and ends up saying 

Genesis 16:13  Then she called the name of the LORD who spoke to her, "You are a God who sees"; for she said, "Have I even remained alive here after seeing Him?"

Could you imagine the teaching that they 2 disciples got on the road to Emmaus from Yeshua Himself?

Luke 24:44-45  44 Now He said to them, “These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,

I can't make a 100% definitive statement that Christ is the Angel of YHVH, but it sure reads that way to me. And I can't help but get a little excited reading the passages that way, seeing that Christ was always doing the Father's will and interacting with people.

 

Hi Michael,

Nice to meet you & see your friendly smile. Thank you for your great contribution to lifting up our precious Lord. I do believe that when a person bows down to the `messenger,` then we can know that that is the Lord, (as per scripture & not man bowing to angels, or man).

Glad to see you had the Hebrew word, `Malak,` meaning messenger, or to despatch as a deputy. This word `messenger,` brings out more clearly what the Lord is doing at that time. Here are some thoughts from Charles J. Rolls, a great Bible teacher from the last century.

`The figure of Christ as the Messenger assures us of God`s definite interest in man. The fact that Christ assumes this feature expresses the reality of His love toward us, while the function He thus adopts clearly announces the Father`s special favour toward mankind in sending such an envoy......

So dignified a messenger as He, deigning to traverse so great a distance in the service of deity, most surely warrants our expecting Him to bring a wonderful message, containing the brightest designs & most blessed decrees that were ever dispatched from the throne above.

Certainly the message would contain the wisest & most winsome news that was ever published & would include the widest conceivable range of benefits for all who were willing to receive the Messenger.  We conclude also that we are right in declaring that it would be disastrous & damaging for any soul to despise the dignity of the Bearer of such tidings, or deny Him a hearing.

What an inscrutable moral mystery is presented in this matter. How strange it appears that everyone`s attention is not arrested & amazed at the presence of such a delegate, for His ways are otherworldly, His courtesies belong to a heavenly country & His character indicates He is an ambassador from a celestial court. His purpose in coming from the confines of eternity was to communicate the immutable counsels of God & the establishment of His everlasting covenant.......

Over 200 references occur in the Old Testament in which the word `messenger,` is used. Three times it is rendered `ambassadors` & 96 times, the `angel` of the covenant, or `Angel of the Lord.` Because the nature of the message was so vitally important, the most venerable of all heaven was sent to deliver it to mankind.`

 

     Marilyn.

 

 

Edited by Marilyn C
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THE SUFFICIENCY OF CHRIST for Salvation, sanctification & justification. (Romans, 1 & 2 Corinthians & Galatians)

 

ROMANS

 

The basic teaching in Romans, I believe, is associated with the spiritual value of the brazen altar & its sacrifice. The security featured in the four horns of the altar, for those that are accursed, is fully expressed. (Rom. 8: 34)

 

The gospel is referred to thirteen times & is described as being the power of God. (Rom. 1: 16)

The sufficiency of the power of God to save, in Christ, is made known to all nations. (Rom. 1: 5,  16: 26)

Righteousness & life in Christ are gifts to faith. (Rom. 5: 17,  6: 23)

 

The first 8 chapters deal with His sovereign administration, every benefit is through Him.

The second 8 emphasize His supreme authority as Lord. (Rom. 13: 6 – 9)

 

The titles Lord, Jesus, Christ, & God appear over 300 times.

 

Marilyn.

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1 & 2 CORINTHIANS

 

The message to the Corinthian church pictures Christ in His sufficiency for sanctification. (1 Cor. 1: 2,  6: 11) The teaching interprets the spiritual significance of the laver, (washing, cleansing).

 

We read of the four presentations of Christ –

  • The cursed tree. (Deut. 21: 22 – 23;  Gal. 3: 13)

  • The pascal lamb. (Ex. 12: 3,  1 Cor.  5: 7)

  • The smitten rock. (Ex. 17: 6,  1 Cor. 10: 4)

  • The firstfruits. (Lev. 2: 12 – 14,  1 Cor. 15: 23)

 

The words `sufficient & sufficiency` are used 6 times, & we have a wonderful assurance, “Always having all sufficiency in all things.` (2 Cor. 9: 8) This amazing sufficiency in Christ, is inexpressible.

 

The word `abundance` is applied to comfort, grace, glory, power, wisdom etc & are all available in the precious Saviour.

 

 

 

Marilyn.

 

 

 

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GALATIANS

 

The content of the letter to the churches of Galatia also speak of Christ`s sufficiency. And no room exists for any other supposed gospel. The sufficiency of the divine provision, making it possible for man to be justified in Christ, is absolute & final. (Gal. 2: 16 – 17,   3: 11 – 24)

 

 The contents are based on the spiritual import of the lampstand, which implies revealed truth. Christ is the revealer.

 

A Redeemer was necessary who could

  •  implant the nature of sons (Gal. 4: 5)

  • Impart the title of heirs (3: 29,   4: 7)

  • Initiate relationships to the Father (4: 6)

  • Bring into real liberty (5: 1, 13)

 

Christ alone is all – sufficient.

The titles God, Lord, Jesus, Christ, occur nearly 100 times in this short book.

 

 

Marilyn.

 

 

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On 5/25/2016 at 8:45 PM, Marilyn C said:

Hi Zemke,

Pleased to meet you & appreciate your good thoughts which really add to our appreciation of Christ`s ministries. And that is one of the main reason people do not understand the end-times correctly as they are too focussed on the pre-mid-post trib, or the dragon or beasts or earthly things & not really understanding what Christ is doing in each of the areas you have highlighted.

I also remember, way back, doing studies on the Tabernacle & how it all related to Christ & His ministries. You don`t hear much of that now. Too much focus on US, & not on the Lord & what He is doing. Now this is what I believe the 4 creatures represent.

 `And in the midst of the throne, & around the throne, were four living creatures..... like a lion... like a calf....like a man,....like a flying eagle`  (Rev. 4: 6 & 7)

  

Christ the King –  Lion. 

Christ the Sacrifice (Heir) –  Calf.

Christ the Mediator –  Man.

 Christ the Creator –  Eagle.

  

For Christ to fulfil God`s plan, His covenant to man, He needs to function in each area.

  

 Christ is given the ultimate authority to rule, (Lion)

 Christ humbled Himself to be the ultimate sacrifice, (Calf).

 Christ is both God & man to be the Mediator of both, (Man).

 Christ has ultimate power to create all things new, (Eagle). 

  

The `living creatures,` each have 6 wings, & are full of eyes, saying `Holy, holy.` `Wings,` represent movement, functioning, & `eyes,` represent spiritual insight.

 

 ` Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, Who was & is & is to come!` (Rev. 4:8)

  

Thus these `living creatures` are the four ministries of Christ that are functioning continually by the Holy Spirit, with all wisdom & knowledge, displaying God`s holiness.

 

 

Blessings, Marilyn.

 

 

 

                

 

Hi Marilyn,

At times I realize there is more to the picture when in the series of sevens in Revelation with the seals we see the four living creatures having their part in calling when the lamb opens the first four seals. These patterns in scripture have always fascinated me in that all that is written comes together for a bigger picture. Not that I see it clearly or even break a sweat trying but simply rest in the knowledge that it will become clear at some point.

Sometimes I have moments when it all makes sense and fits and have one person I can share it with and he understands and helps by adding scripture he was reading. We both agree that when we come into further understanding of prophetic things it is sweet in the mouth for sure but without the bitterness in the belly that understanding didn't go far. There is a heaviness when coming into understanding of prophecy. The preaching of prophecy brings some to repentance and some to humility and some into a healthy fear of God and some to salvation through repentance and whatever other purposes He purposes. The churches first evangelistic preaching came from Joel, Acts 2.

I don't have it figured out in a time line type scripture upon scripture technical treaties but all the patterning is amazing. My friend believes at the moment the first four seals and the living creatures have some role or part in the restraining being taken.  

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7 hours ago, Zemke said:

Hi Marilyn,

At times I realize there is more to the picture when in the series of sevens in Revelation with the seals we see the four living creatures having their part in calling when the lamb opens the first four seals. These patterns in scripture have always fascinated me in that all that is written comes together for a bigger picture. Not that I see it clearly or even break a sweat trying but simply rest in the knowledge that it will become clear at some point.

Sometimes I have moments when it all makes sense and fits and have one person I can share it with and he understands and helps by adding scripture he was reading. We both agree that when we come into further understanding of prophetic things it is sweet in the mouth for sure but without the bitterness in the belly that understanding didn't go far. There is a heaviness when coming into understanding of prophecy. The preaching of prophecy brings some to repentance and some to humility and some into a healthy fear of God and some to salvation through repentance and whatever other purposes He purposes. The churches first evangelistic preaching came from Joel, Acts 2.

I don't have it figured out in a time line type scripture upon scripture technical treaties but all the patterning is amazing. My friend believes at the moment the first four seals and the living creatures have some role or part in the restraining being taken.  

Hi Zemke,

Thanks for sharing. And that`s great to have a friend to share the things of the Lord with. I do also. Yes God`s word is truly amazing for it opens up to us more & more of our precious Lord. Each title, ministry, symbol, type, shadow etc all go to show some aspect of Him. We can never tire of speaking or studying of Him & I believe it comes forth in our lives as a changing heart.

God bless. Marilyn.

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The next section in the New Testament, from Ephesians to 2 Thessalonians, I believe brings out our standing in Christ.

 

EPHESIANS

 

All spiritual blessings are in Christ, our acceptance is in the Beloved, in whom we have redemption, forgiveness, an inheritance, & `the eternal purposed is purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord.` (Eph. 3: 11)

 

The spiritual significance of the 12 loaves of the showbread table is revealed as Christ the Bread of Life.

 

PHILIPPIANS

 

From the highest station of sovereignty, `the form of God,` He descended to the lowest state of submission, `the form of a bond servant.` And although He made Himself of no reputation in His humanity, He is now entitled to a name above every name, (Phil. 2: 6 – 10)

 

This self – abnegating service is a sweet savour to God & is represented in the incense altar, (Phil. 4: 18)

 

COLOSSIANS

 

This is the one who has the preeminence in all things, in whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom & knowledge, for in Him dwells all the fullness of Godhead bodily. And because we are in Him we are filled to completion. So when Christ who is our life shall appear, we shall appear with Him in glory, (Col. 1: 18,  2: 3, 9, 10,   3: 4)

 

The ark of the covenant had its crown of gold expressing sovereignty,

  • A mercy seat, sympathy

  • The rod that budded & pot of manna, sufficiency of Christ`s priesthood in resurrection.

 

 

1 & 2 THESSALONIANS

 

In the light of our Lord`s wonderful character we can look with hopeful expectancy His coming descent from heaven. The word of the Lord affirms it, (1 Thess 4: 14 – 18)

 

  • The veil which is His flesh, in which we expect Him to be manifested.

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