The fig tree in the parable of the fig tree

[Zemke]

Ya I do see it as that simple but also much more to it. Prophecy is more cyclical and speaks of fullness and birth pangs and earth tremors. These things having intensities and calm until the big one hits or the child is at hand. False alarms and false labor happen but I think the parable of the fig tree is to help us focus in on the fullness of times. 

Most of what I've read and heard all deal with just the fig tree but Luke mentions all the trees and usually good teachers and commentators bring in the synoptic texts but this one is always isolated.  I'm not sure who the fig tree represents if not all the trees, a reference the Jews most likely understood, sometimes I think we read far to much into a wrong direction and miss the simple. As far as I know Judges 9 is he only parable about a fig tree and all the other trees so if Jesus said learn a parable of the fig tree, well. 

Today there is a trend I've heard coming from leaders of all levels and it's this, "We just want you to come to the table and be open and honest, we are just setting a place to begin the conversation."

Do not go, do not sit, live quietly and work with your hands.

"Begin the conversation"? Really! Like what conversation needs begun that hasn't already begun. It's the place where seventy brothers get dead.

I saw an elderly man well schooled and groomed sitting in a board room with windows overlooking a city scolding Japan for being xenophobic and not allowing Muslims to enter and then talking all so wonderfully about coming to the table. I only saw a small portion of it and his first name was Alexander, I'm not a big TV person but I'm sure it was on a pbs station. Gave me the willies.

 

[Sister]

Quote

 

On a time line, what we can determine about the 2300 days is 2300 days before Jesus returns, the daily animal sacrifices will begin again on day 220, then stopped sometime in the middle part of the week (the seven years).

Day 1 confirmation of the covenant....................day 220 animal sacrifices begin again............................. middle part of the week, stoppage of the animal sacrifices

.............................................day 2520 Jesus returns.

 

Hi Dougg

Please consider this;

 Micah 6:6   Wherewith shall I come before the LORD, and bow myself before the high God? shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves of a year old?

  Micah 6:7   Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?

  Micah 6:8   He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

  Micah 6:9   The LORD'S voice crieth unto the city, and the man of wisdom shall see thy name: hear ye the rod, and who hath appointed it.

 

I cannot see the "daily sacrifice" as animal sacrifices.  There is nothing written that specifically states what the "daily sacrifice" will be.   We can only be shown through understanding.  In my opinion, I see the "daily sacrifice" that will be taken away as a spiritual meaning of Christ's name and everything he stands for (truth/salvation). 

Israel are not currently doing animal sacrifices, nor are they required to do anymore.  If they do start doing sacrifices again, we have to realise who will be in charge of that temple, and that's the FP. 

God is going to use the FP to take away the daily sacrifice.  Not the same daily sacrifice as animal sacrifices, because that was already done away with at Christ's death & resurrection.  I believe when the daily sacrifice is taken away it will signify when the door is closed to Christ, .....when Christians have to make a decision which side their loyalty will lay.  This is God's way of sifting the believers and forcing them to chose now.

[douggg]

7 hours ago, BlindSeeker said:

Since you seem to just make your statements and not substantiate them, so I guess can only say I disagree with you. Because you give nothing to refute or cross-examine, you leave the burden is upon everyone to sway you while you make no effort to sway others. Therefore it make's very little point to present anything to you because you don't really consider it and you basically just keep saying little more than "Not so, this it what it is."

However, the 2300 days, which I believe are years, is how long the vision till it is fulfilled, not how long the little horn does his all his dastardly deeds.

Daniel 8:13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

 

Alexander has no connection to the 2300 days because it is in the text that the little horn... takes away the daily sacrifice.   The 2300 days is the answer to the How long question in Daniel 8::13 which you quoted above (I highlighted part in red) to match the part in red below.  Nothing to do with Alexander, but the little horn,

11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

The bible doesn't say the 2300 days is 2300 years.    You are believing something that is not in the text.   

 

[douggg]

12 hours ago, Sister said:

Hi Dougg

The daily sacrifices offered by the priest under the old covenant was done away with by Christ.  Animal sacrifices are no longer required, for Christ became that ultimate sacrifice.

Since then Christ requires "sacrifices of the heart".  Christ was only offered up once, yes, but on a daily basis, whilst the door is still open, anyone can come to Christ.  We can talk about him freely, preach his message, worship him, discuss, assemble with like minded people, and so forth.  It just makes more sense to me, that there will come a day when the name of Christ is stamped out.  In other words it will be illegal to speak about him, or congregate.  I know it's hard to imagine, but this is how I see it, that the daily sacrifice is a spiritual one, the freedom in coming to Christ daily through that open door, which is never closed......until the FP says, that door is now shut.  No more churches, no more preaching, no more mentioning Christ's name.  For the delusion will be so strong, and the FP will stamp the truth to the ground and crush any type of hope those sitting on the fence might of have.  He will use everything in his power to block their access to Christ.  Those who have been already fed truth will stay on that solid foundation, but the rest of the believers who are used to congregating will have no meeting place.  Their pastures will be destroyed.  The sheep will be scattered.  This is God's doing also.  When our meeting places are gone, what have we left?  Only the truth, and if we have been taught well, we will be prepared for we will have to stand on our own now, only with what God has given us.  Many who hid behind their church, will stumble, if they have not been fed truth.

Jeremiah 25:36   A voice of the cry of the shepherds, and an howling of the principal of the flock, shall be heard: for the LORD hath spoiled their pasture.

 

Hi Sister,   who, what group, is interested in rebuilding the temple and re-starting the daily sacrifice, and who still hold to the Mt. Sinai covenant?    The Jews, Israel.      Christians, we have no reason for daily animal sacrifices, nor reason to build a temple as you have pointed out.   

Following Gog/Magog, the Jews will think they have entered the messianic age.   And some sort of minimum sized temple will be quickly constructed by Israel to restart the animal sacrifices.

Now, as far as, anti-christian persecution, yes that will come, but the animal sacrifices forthcoming is not referring to Jesus, even in a symbolic way.    

And as a side note, there was nothing in any of the Mt. Sinai covenant ordinances, feasts, sacrifices by which a person would receive eternal life.       Those things pointed to Jesus, but there is no equivalent old testament sacrifice to what Jesus did on the cross in giving us eternal life and being borne again..

Edited May 24, 2016 by douggg

[BlindSeeker]

7 hours ago, douggg said:

Alexander has no connection to the 2300 days because it is in the text that the little horn... takes away the daily sacrifice.   The 2300 days is the answer to the How long question in Daniel 8::13 which you quoted above (I highlighted part in red) to match the part in red below.  Nothing to do with Alexander, but the little horn,

11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

The bible doesn't say the 2300 days is 2300 years.    You are believing something that is not in the text.   

 

Simple questions....

·      Was it 70 weeks, like only 490 days, from the commandment to restore Jeruselam to Messiah?

·      Were there three visions? One for the ram, one for the he-goat, and one for the little horn?

·      Or was there one vision that covered everything?

For the angel answered the question " How long shall be the vision...," and the answer was concerning how long the vision till it is fulfilled, not (as I stated) how long the little horn does to do all his all his dastardly deeds. It is undeniably true that the vision (singular) was concerning the ram, he-goat, and " the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot," but question was how long the vision till that seen therein (the vision) was accomplished, and not how long shat the last thing in the vision continue?

Daniel 8:2 And I saw in a vision; and it came to pass, when I saw, that I was at Shushan in the palace, which is in the province of Elam; and I saw in a vision, and I was by the river of Ulai.  3 Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last.  4 I saw the ram pushing westward, and northward, and southward; so that no beasts might stand before him, neither was there any that could deliver out of his hand; but he did according to his will, and became great.  5 And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.  6 And he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had seen standing before the river, and ran unto him in the fury of his power.  7 And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand.  8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven. 9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.  10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.  11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.  12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.  13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

 

[douggg]

3 hours ago, BlindSeeker said:

Simple questions....

 

·      Was it 70 weeks, like only 490 days, from the commandment to restore Jeruselam to Messiah?

 

·      Were there three visions? One for the ram, one for the he-goat, and one for the little horn?

 

      Or was there one vision that covered everything?

 

 

One vision, of three kingdoms.   The medes-persian, the greek, and the end times kingdom lead by the little horn.

It was 70 periods of seven in Daniel 9.    There are no periods of seven in Daniel 8.

 

Quote

For the angel answered the question " How long shall be the vision...," and the answer was concerning how long the vision till it is fulfilled, not (as I stated) how long the little horn does to do all his all his dastardly deeds. It is undeniably true that the vision (singular) was concerning the ram, he-goat, and " the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot," but question was how long the vision till that seen therein (the vision) was accomplished, and not how long shat the last thing in the vision continue?

 

 

But the answer of 2300 days in verse 14, to the question in verse 13 - verse 13 in the text did not include either the ram, the he-goat, or the break up kingdoms.... segments of the vision.   Only the part pertaining to the actions of the little horn.

 13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

 

 

Edited May 24, 2016 by douggg

[BlindSeeker]

1 hour ago, douggg said:

One vision, of three kingdoms.   The medes-persian, the greek, and the end times kingdom lead by the little horn.

It was 70 periods of seven in Daniel 9.    There are no periods of seven in Daniel 8.

 

 

 

But the answer of 2300 days in verse 14, to the question in verse 13 - verse 13 in the text did not include either the ram, the he-goat, or the break up kingdoms.... segments of the vision.   Only the part pertaining to the actions of the little horn.

 13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

 

 

"But...?"

Really, that is your answer to my questions?

[douggg]

48 minutes ago, BlindSeeker said:

"But...?"

Really, that is your answer to my questions?

Your question was flawed because it was based up a wrong presumption.     You mistated what was in Daniel 8:13, in the body of your question of How Long.   

[BlindSeeker]

8 hours ago, douggg said:

One vision, of three kingdoms.   The medes-persian, the greek, and the end times kingdom lead by the little horn.

It was 70 periods of seven in Daniel 9.    There are no periods of seven in Daniel 8.

 

What about the 7 weeks, the 62 weeks, and the last week? Are not these 3 separate periods of time?

But of course I assume you are stating your answer the way you did because the sum of the total is 70, thus 70 weeks/periods... I just find that to be an odd answer when I know you understood my question.

So what is the issues?

Why won't you just state in simple comprehensive terms what you believe the duration of those periods are?

Is this how you have reasoned these things these 43 years?? (this one’s rhetorical…)

 

[douggg]

59 minutes ago, BlindSeeker said:

What about the 7 weeks, the 62 weeks, and the last week? Are not these 3 separate periods of time?

But of course I assume you are stating your answer the way you did because the sum of the total is 70, thus 70 weeks/periods... I just find that to be an odd answer when I know you understood my question.

 

As most of your questions, it was presumptuous.    What I understood about your question is the faulty rationale that you attempt to use that a day equal a year.   

 

Quote

So what is the issues?

Why won't you just state in simple comprehensive terms what you believe the duration of those periods are?

Is this how you have reasoned these things these 43 years?? (this one’s rhetori

 

I am not sure what your question is.   Are you talking about the 70 periods of 7 in Daniel 9 ?     The last period of 7 to go, called the  one week in Daniel 9:27, which the prince who shall come confirms the covenant for  - is 7 years.    Still ahead of us.

All of the timeframes for the end times fit within that 7 year period.     So list all the timeframes for the end times in the bible and reference the passage associated with each (in your reply to this post), and I will explain how each fits for you.    But maybe in a new thread.

I will help you with your list in case you overlook some, but you need to put forth some effort as well.

 

Edited May 25, 2016 by douggg