Water was not created

[missmuffet]

38 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

yeah we still have salad eaters here amongst us  

Except for you.

[Ezra]

32 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

When did God create angels, including Lucifer?

Although not mentioned precisely, it would appear that all the angels were created on Day One, when light was created, since they witnessed the rest of creation (Job 48), and rejoiced.

35 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

When and why did he fall? Was it before Gen. 1:1, of after Gen. 1:1 sometime?

It would appear that Satan's fall (along with his rebel angels) occurred very shortly after their creation, since hardly had Adam and Eve been in the Garden of Eden when disaster struck through the Serpent (that Old Serpent, the Devil).  Again, we really don't know.

[Ezra]

41 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

yeah we still have salad eaters here amongst us  

Yeah, and some of them become quite powerful physically.

[missmuffet]

43 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

When did God create angels, including Lucifer?

Ezek. 28:15, Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

All Gods angels, including Lucifer were there when God laid the foundations of the Earth;

Job. 48: -7, Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast  understanding.
    5, Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
    6, Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened ? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
    7, When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? 

Lucifer, now Satan was a fallen creature when he came into Adams garden and tempted them, Eve and Adam. When and why did he fall? Was it before Gen. 1:1, of after Gen. 1:1 sometime?

Question: "When did God create the angels?"

Answer: Trying to determine when God created the angels is somewhat tricky because anything God did “before the foundation of the world” puts the event outside of time itself. Time and space are characteristics of our world, not God’s. He is not limited by hours, days and years as we are. In fact, the Bible tells us that “with the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day” (2 Peter 3:8).

We do know that God created the angels before he created the physical universe. The book of Job describes the angels worshipping God as He was creating the world: “Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand. Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! Who stretched a measuring line across it? On what were its footings set, or who laid its cornerstone - while the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy?” (Job 38:4-7).

If we consider the function of angels, we might conclude that God created the angels just prior to the creation of mankind because one of their duties is to be “ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation” (Hebrews 1:14). We also know they existed prior to the Garden of Eden, because Satan, who was formerly the angel Lucifer, was already present in the Garden in his fallen state. However, because another function of angels is to worship God around His throne (Revelation 5:11-14), they may have been in existence millions of years—as we reckon time—before God created the world, worshipping Him and serving Him.

So, although the Bible does not specifically say when God created the angels, it was sometime before the world was created. Whether this was a day before, or billions of years before—again, as we reckon time—we cannot be sure.

http://www.gotquestions.org/when-angels-created.html

[enoob57]

Angels created with beginning after 'In The Beginnning' and Lucifer fell sometime after seventh day sanctified....

[HAZARD]

" Enoob57, "Angels created with beginning after 'In The Beginnning' and Lucifer fell sometime after seventh day sanctified...."

.

As usual, empty words, so easy, with no Scriptural support and wrong again.

Starting in 2 Peter 3:5,

1. For this they willingly are ignorant, that by the word of God the heavens were created of old, (V. 5; Ps. 68:33; 93:2; 102:25; Mic. 5:2).

2. That the earth was established in and out of water (V. 5; Ps. 24:2;136:6).

3. That the world "that then was," refers to the pre-Adamite world of social system which was destroyed by a great universal flood before Adam (V. 6; Gen. 1:2; Ps. 104:5-9; Jer. 4:23-26; Isa. 14;12-14; Ez. 28:11-17).

4. That the heavens and the earth "which are now" were restored from chaos and judgment about 6,000 years ago in Adams day 9V. 7: Gen 1:3-2-25).

5. That the heavens and the earth entered their second sinful career through Adam and are now reserved for a second universal renovation by fire at the time of the great white throne judgment at the end of the Millennium (V. 7:10-12; 12:25-28; Rev. 20"7-15).

6.  That with God a thousand years is like a day and a day is like a thousand years. God inhabits eternity and is not subject to eternity to get His work done before death as is the case with us humans (V. 8-9; Isa. 57:15; Eph. 3:11).

The pre-Adamites (3:6),

1. Two social systems are mentioned here by Peter; one was before the one which is now, and the other, after the one that then was (V. 6-7).

2. The former social system perished by water and the present one will perish by fire (V. 6-7).

3. The former social system was created "In the beginning" and was destroyed by the flood of Gen. 1"1-2. The present social system was created in 6 days since the flood of gen. 1:2 (Gen. 1:3-2:25).

4. The flood of Noah did not destroy all social system on earth between Adam and Noah, for some were preserved in the Ark to continue that social system after the flood; but the social system that then was before the present social system utterly perished. Not one man, bird, or animal was left alive (V. 6; Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23-26).

5. No reference in Scripture can be found of a change in the heavens and the earth in Noahs day as in Adams day (Gen. 1:3-2:25). This proves that" the world that then was," had to be before Adam's day because the heavens and the earth "which are now," came into existence at that time and not at the time of Noah.

6. There was no man, bird, vegetation, or any other life left after the flood of V. 6; Gen. 1:2. They were made again in the six days (Gen. 2:4-9). That they ad been here before Adam is clear from;

Jer. 4:23-26. 

23, I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
    24, I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
    25, I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
    26, I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.

7. There have been and will be three social systems on earth.

(1) The Pre-Adamite world, the one, "that then was," before the present heavens and the earth (V. 6).

(2) The Adamite sinful social system, from Adam to the new heavens and the new earth (V. 7).

(3) The Adamite sinless social system in the new earth (V. 13: Rev. 21:1-22; 5; Isa. 66:22-24).

8. Peter taught two distinct ends of two sinful careers on earth.

(1) The world "that then was. The pre-Adamite social system had a sinful career or it would not have perished in the flood of V. 6; Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23-26; Isa. 14:12-14; Ez. 28:11-17; Matt. 13:35.

(2) The present Adamite sinful social system making the present sinful career of the earth. It will come to an end during the Millennium (V. 7, 10-13; 1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 20:7-10).

9. If V 6 pictured Noahs flood it would be clear, for Peter always mentions Noah of eight persons if he refers to this flood (1 Pet. 3;20; 2 Pet. 2:5). Others also make it clear when they refer to Noahs flood (Isa. 54:9; Matt. 24:37-38; Luke 17:26-27; Heb. 11:7).

10. There is no doubt of a universal flood before Adam (V. 6; gen. 1:2; Ps. 104:5-9). Since God never sends a flood unless judgment is necessary, there must have been a social system to be banished before Adam.

 

 

[ayin jade]

There appears to be something in the water here lately.

[HAZARD]

49 minutes ago, ayin jade said:

There appears to be something in the water here lately.

And are you drinking it ? ? ?

[Mateo]

Many people have this young earth creationism mindset. Even many Atheists believe that a Christians think that. Not all Christans believe that however. I believe when we subscribe to a young earth creationism mindset we end up trying to fit a square into a circle.

The Bible tells us that God by the Word (Jesus Christ) created ALL things. This includes water.

The Issue comes when we read in Genisis 1:2 that the water was already there. So I can see how someone can say. "God didn't create water" especially when you think the earth is young.

I believe the earth is old however. How old? The Bible does not say. But as we read Genisis 1:2 we are introduced to a flooded earth. It says "The earth was formless and void and darkness was upon the face of the deep" 

In Hebrew the first "was" there can also be translated as "became". And the "deep" can also be translated as "deep water"

So it could sound like "the earth became formless and void and darkness was on the face of the deep water"

If the earth became formless and empty, that suggests it was something before.

Some may ask "How can the earth be old when Genisis 1:1-2 is the first day of creation?"

I was suggest that Genisis 1:1 is a blanket statement telling us that God created the Heavens and the earth. Genisis 1:2 starts off with the Hebrew letter (VAV) which has many translations and it can be troublesome to find its proper context. (VAV) could mean: "And", "But", "So", and even "Now"

when you fit thoes in however, (it really doesn't change much as I'm starting to realize), with the other translations you get a better picture. I believe this narrative used the (VAV) as the word "Now" to indicate that some time (not sure how much) had passed. Now let's see what that looks like when telling a story with all the "proper" translations

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Now the earth became formless and void and darkness was upon the face of the deep water."

Can you see how a solid argument can be made for an old earth that had became formless, empty, and flooded with water? Now we still don't know how water got on earth Biblically speaking(we know God created it), but maybe we can figure it out scientifically.

Proverbs 25:2 "It's the glory of God to conceal a thing, but the honor of Kings is to search out a matter."

[LuftWaffle]

In the Ancient Near East water and specifically oceans symbolised chaos and disorder. It is likely then that the water being referred to in Genesis 1 isn't H2O but a symbolic reference to chaos.