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George

You'll never find the perfect church

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While scanning through the various topics on the board, this one really struck me. I find it amazing that some believe that there is no true or perfect church on the earth. Wait a second....let's take a step back, open our minds, and dive into the Bible.

The Bible refers to "The Church" dozens of times in the New Testament, by Christ Himself as well as the Apostles and others towards the latter end of that first century. Christ truly organized a church. And something that Christ does, makes, or creates....can it have flaws? Imagine Jesus as a carpenter. Was there ever a better carpenter? Were not His works perfect? Or did He fall short?

Owing to the numerous references that Christ did infact form or organize a church, that church therefore must be Perfect. All agreed? Of course we cannot begin to imagine that the members of the named church are perfect, BUT....The Church in itself: the organization, structure, priesthood, divine guidance through revelation-that is Perfect.

God is Eternal and unchanging. I believe we all agree on this point. God loves His creations. We, His children, are His greatest creations. He loves us dearly and will do anything to help us return to Him. This is the purpose in organizing His church. To perfect US. It is just like a school. This life is a test, and we must study hard, among other things, in order to pass. What happens if we don't go to school? Will we pass the final? What if we learn wrong material? We can classify such as false doctrine. Will the wrong material help us out? Will false doctrines save us, even if our faith is strong? False doctrine, no matter what the degree of our faith, will only condemn us. Christ made His church to teach us the truth, and the Truth (and Only the truth) will set us free (save us).

To say that God has no Perfect church on the Earth today is to say that God changes, that He no longer loves us, and the days of salvation are over. There can only be One true church. Only One. There do not exist two churches in this world who agree on every point of doctrine. Two conflicting ideas, doctrines, or teachings cannot be true simultaneously.....it simply is not possible. Therefore, only One church, One organization, One....dare I say....Religion is True and Perfect. If there isn't a Perfect Church, we are all damned.

Now, which one is it? There are thousands out there. But it's easy to find out. God requires a broken heart and a contrite spirit of all His children. We might ask ourselves: Am I humble enough? Am I Truly seeking the Truth? If I find it, will I give up everything to follow it? God asks simple things of us. He, as our Father, will listen to and answer His children. But we must meet the requirements. Ask of God, trust in Him, and He will lead you to good. The Holy Spirit speaketh not of itself, but testifieth of truth, and guideth to all truth.

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Hello "a god in training"

Therefore, only One church, One organization, One....dare I say....Religion is True and Perfect. If there isn't a Perfect Church, we are all damned.

The Church building fund, Jesus! Jesus! Jesus!

"..... I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." (Matthew 16:18)

The Church growth committee, Jesus! Jesus! Jesus!

".... And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved." (Acts 2:47)

The Church nursery, Jesus! Jesus! Jesus!

"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." (John 3:3)

The road to the Church, Jesus! Jesus! Jesus!

" Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." (John 14:6)

The Church Authority, Jesus! Jesus! Jesus!

"And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church," (Ephesians 1:22)

The Church Religion, Jesus! Jesus! Jesus!

"Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me." (John 15:4)

"This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you." (John 15:12)

Did I miss anything. Oh yeah!

The Church Papers of Incorporation, Abba Father, Jesus! Jesus! Jesus!, The Holy Ghost!

"That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me." (John 17:21)

"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come." (John 16:13)

Mr. "a god in training"

It clearly appears to me....dare I say....if we are not born again, we are forever damned.

It clearly appears to me....dare I say....no matter what earthly "church" we attend, without Jesus and His Blood shed for the remission of sins, we are forever damned.

It clearly appears to me....dare I say....no matter how religious we are, without God's gift, we are forever damned.

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Romans 6:23)

Love, Joe

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And yes I have an answer. You can have your own. Just pray to God. Ask Him sincerely. Don't trust in yourself, nor in the Bible, more than God.

Hmm don't trust in the Bible more than God.... :th_praying:

If this is the teaching of your 'perfect church' I would find another church my friend. :emot-pray:

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And yes I have an answer. You can have your own. Just pray to God. Ask Him sincerely. Don't trust in yourself, nor in the Bible, more than God.

Hmm don't trust in the Bible more than God.... :th_praying:

If this is the teaching of your 'perfect church' I would find another church my friend. :b:

Yipes! :emot-pray:

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Hello "a god in training"

Therefore, only One church, One organization, One....dare I say....Religion is True and Perfect. If there isn't a Perfect Church, we are all damned.

The Church building fund, Jesus! Jesus! Jesus!

"..... I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." (Matthew 16:18)

The Church growth committee, Jesus! Jesus! Jesus!

".... And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved." (Acts 2:47)

The Church nursery, Jesus! Jesus! Jesus!

"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." (John 3:3)

The road to the Church, Jesus! Jesus! Jesus!

" Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." (John 14:6)

The Church Authority, Jesus! Jesus! Jesus!

"And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church," (Ephesians 1:22)

The Church Religion, Jesus! Jesus! Jesus!

"Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me." (John 15:4)

"This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you." (John 15:12)

Did I miss anything. Oh yeah!

The Church Papers of Incorporation, Abba Father, Jesus! Jesus! Jesus!, The Holy Ghost!

"That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me." (John 17:21)

"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come." (John 16:13)

Mr. "a god in training"

It clearly appears to me....dare I say....if we are not born again, we are forever damned.

It clearly appears to me....dare I say....no matter what earthly "church" we attend, without Jesus and His Blood shed for the remission of sins, we are forever damned.

It clearly appears to me....dare I say....no matter how religious we are, without God's gift, we are forever damned.

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Romans 6:23)

Love, Joe

Hi Joe,

I am afraid that I did not catch your meaning in your reply to me. You posted a bunch of scriptures, most of which have nothing to do with the subject, and you had nothing backing up your claims.

It clearly appears to me...dare I say....that you don't know what you believe.

It clearly appears to me...dare I say...that you believe that God is a god of confusion.

It clearly appears to me...dare I say....that, well....you need to do better than that.

And yes I have an answer. You can have your own. Just pray to God. Ask Him sincerely. Don't trust in yourself, nor in the Bible, more than God.

{{{ You can have your own }}}

Thanks But No Thanks!

I'd rather have the "real deal", Jesus!

"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away." (Matthew 24:35)

"These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so." (Acts 17:11)

Oops! Must be a Mormon (LDS)?

Oh yeah!

The scriptures are clear, The Church is The Body of Christ, brought into existence by a spiritual birth, not some organization of men crafted out of the twisting of The Holy Bible they knowingly disregard and trying with all their might to block sinners from the real Jesus!

Love, Joe

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{{{ You can have your own }}}

Thanks But No Thanks!

I'd rather have the "real deal", Jesus!

"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away." (Matthew 24:35)

"These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so." (Acts 17:11)

Oops! Must be a Mormon (LDS)?

Oh yeah!

The scriptures are clear, The Church is The Body of Christ, brought into existence by a spiritual birth, not some organization of men crafted out of the twisting of The Holy Bible they knowingly disregard and trying with all their might to block sinners from the real Jesus!

Love, Joe

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May I call you Jack!

The name "a god in training" is a name intended to place the bearer into the eternal burning lake of fire and I most surly do not wish that upon you.

Good Morning Dear Jack and thank you for your careful, well thought out responses to our questions and comments!

Well, thank you all for distorting my words. I hope you're all proud of yourselves. Let me explain in simpler terms what I mean.

Jack, I'm truly sorry!

Forgive me.

"When pride cometh, then cometh shame: but with the lowly is wisdom." (Proverbs 11:2)

I think I am the one who fails to understand your communications.

Please lay any blame on Joe and please do not get angry at or discouraged with my dear brothers and sisters here.

Most of them are far, far quicker than Joe! (And much better looking too except for Ted!)

The Bible is true, without a doubt. It is the inspired word of God, for us and for all mankind. It is a tool God gave us to guide and direct us. Now....we cannot place the Bible above God. That is what I said. Will anyone deny that God is greater than the Bible? Deny this and....well, you've got problems. God is the ultimate source of light, truth, and knowledge. Not the Bible. The Bible has flaws, but God doesn't. Ask Him, and don't lean towards the Bible more than God himself.

You see Jack, my problem is with understanding The Holy Bible as just a flawed tool.

I know of it's power!

It is The Power of The Words Of Jesus Christ to birth me and to hold me until my salvation is complete.

Dear Jack, How do I know, The Bible tells me so!

"Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began," (Romans 16:25)

"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." (John 3:3)

This amazing Book shows me The Face of God!

And, I'm still alive!

It is Jesus that is "The Rock" clift for me so I can go into The Father's Presence!

Dear Jack, How do I know, The Bible tells me so!

"Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God." (Exodus 3:6)

"And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by: And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen."

(Exodus 33:22-23)

This "Book" as turned my world upside down and given me a new heart to cry out with to my Abba Father and The Son my Lord and Master and The Spirit of Life Himself!

Dear Jack, How do I know, The Bible tells me so!

" Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart." (2 Corinthians 3:3)

Because of The Holy Bible, I cry to God with repentance and with joy and with hope and with thanksgiving!

Dear Jack, How do I know, because The Bible tells me so!

"When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." (Mark 2:17)

Returning to the subject at hand, there can only be one true church. Why? Because no two churches in the world today have exactly the same doctrine, practices, or teachings. Can any two be true at the same time, while contradicting one another? From the gospel of John, we read that "Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." Hereby we learn that only the truth with save us. Truth is charactarized as knowledge or fact that is unchangeable or eternal. Faith, therefore, is a hope in things which are not seen, which are TRUE. If we place our faith in wrong doctrines, wrong beliefs....then what happens to our faith? It is therefore in vain, without meaning, and useless in our journey towards salvation.

Oh Dear Jack! The Bible tells us about the one and the only Church!

And, Jack, this Church is both on earth and in the Heavens!

Dear Jack, How do I know, the Bible tells me so!

"And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:" (Ephesians 2:6)

"And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife." (Revelation 21:9)

"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ." (1 Corinthians 12:12)

It is imperative that we find truth, learn it, understand it, and live it. Without such, there is no salvation. There can be only one correct "truth." Which church has not just some, but all of the truths? Which church teaches everything correctly, interprets the Bible correctly, etc.? There cannot be more than one, for all are different.

Will a "half-truth" save us? If so, God changes and He has lied. But of course God doesn't change, and he certainly does not lie. A half truth, mixed truth, or something almost true will not save us. It must be 100% truth. Are you following me? Therefore it DOES matter which church we join, for if we place our faith in wrong teachings, well, we are not "know[ing] the truth" and "the truth shall [not] make us free."

Here again Dear Jack, you seen to confuse "Salvation" with "The Savior".

The Church does not save!

Jesus saves!

How do I know, The Bible tells me so!

"Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool." (Isaiah 1:18)

"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." (John 8:32)

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." (John 14:6)

Little doubt Jack. I am probably just not understanding your posts.

What little I do know, I learned it all from The Bible and from The Spirit through The Bible!

Don't leave earth without it!

It is Jesus! Jesus! Jesus!

How do I know?

The Bible tells me so!

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I am sure that you are proud of your humility Joe. But forgive me, it was I who wronged you. I have said things that weren't Christ-like. I have offended Your brothers and sisters. I have intruded upon your peaceful and unchallenged way of viewing things. I have created a user name that will condemn me. I have you find room in your heart to forgive me. I plead for your forgiveness, and for God's.

But a simple question:

Do you believe that God will save us no matter what we learn, practice, or teach, as long as we have faith in Jesus Christ? Is that all it takes? Does the Bible tell you that?

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I am sure that you are proud of your humility Joe.

My pride! :24::24::24:

Jack, I love these little slaps! :thumbsup:

They remind me of the road my Savior took on the way to The Cross!

The Cross where His precious Blood was shed to cover my pride!

Such a inconceivable price paid to cover filthy rags!

Jack, you are correct! :o

It was pride that brought sin into the world!

And God is so working on my pride as to leave me with only one brag.

"..... Jesus Christ, and him crucified." (1 Corinthians 2:2)

But a simple question:

Nothing simple about your little probes and digs Trapper Jack.

You are waltzing around in the inter-court, Dear Dancing Jack, dressed as as a believer. :24:

Give me a break!

Dancing Trapper Jack, are you sheep or goat?

"..... What think ye of Christ? ....." (Matthew 22:42)

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