Words of Jesus proves pre-Trib rapture is false

[OakWood]

 

 

 

[Guest]

First off, the Great Tribulation and the Wrath of GOD are the same thing. So this is false teaching. Why don't people read scripture for themselves and make up their own minds instead of regurgitating something someone else says or thinks? Such is Religion!

[JTC]

4 hours ago, Rick_Parker said:

First off, the Great Tribulation and the Wrath of GOD are the same thing. So this is false teaching. Why don't people read scripture for themselves and make up their own minds instead of regurgitating something someone else says or thinks? Such is Religion!

I actually read the entire Bible before I joined my first church. After I joined I was told about all this rapture stuff. I really never saw that in my own readings so I don't think we can be too sure exactly how these things will happen. I know almost no one agrees with me. Fine. I'm not going to debate it because I don't know.

One thing the Bible predicts for the end times is how prevalent evil will be and how ungodly most of the world will be. I first learned that some 30 yrs ago and I remember thinking that Jesus must be a few days away because I didn't think the world could become much more evil than it already was. That was in about 1985 for anyone interested in the year. I sure was wrong. I have learned to never ask how much worse can things get. 

I've also learned all we can do is to do our very best to obey God, even though we fail at some point everyday, we must keep trying. I read on a different Christian board where some guy said since we're going to fail and sin everyday anyway we don't need to even try. Everything I understand from scripture tells me this is false. We better try. Furthermore, the longer we know Jesus we better improve.

[OakWood]

7 hours ago, Rick_Parker said:

First off, the Great Tribulation and the Wrath of GOD are the same thing. So this is false teaching. Why don't people read scripture for themselves and make up their own minds instead of regurgitating something someone else says or thinks? Such is Religion!

If it's the same thing then why is God punishing Christians? Why is he persecuting them, taking away their abilities to buy and sell and even beheading them because they refuse to take the mark? And why are the unrighteous having such a good time, laughing and celebrating when the two witnesses are murdered, and even buying each other gifts?

Next you'll be telling me that Nero was doing God's work for him when he threw all those Christians to the lions. Perhaps you think that ISIS are the wrath of God too, punishing all those Christians in the Middle East by murdering them.

I think you're the one that needs to understand scripture - you can't even tell the good guys from the bad guys. The Flood was the wrath of God too. Funny, I don't seem to remember the bit where Noah drowned and all the wicked people were saved. You must be reading a different Bible to the one I have.

The wrath of God comes after the Tribulation or somewhere towards the end of it when God starts to punish those who have taken the mark of the Beast, and then when he destroys the rule of the antiChrist and finally casts judgement.

[Guest]

GOD isn't punishing anyone. Satan is doing it. That has nothing to do with the video you posted (and which I freely admit I didn't finish because it is false teaching). That teacher does not know what he is talking about, nor do the people who believe him to be knowledgeable of end times events. 

[Ezra]

9 hours ago, Rick_Parker said:

First off, the Great Tribulation and the Wrath of GOD are the same thing. So this is false teaching. Why don't people read scripture for themselves and make up their own minds instead of regurgitating something someone else says or thinks? Such is Religion!

Exactly. Propaganda is a lie which repeated enough times becomes the truth.

[OakWood]

2 hours ago, Rick_Parker said:

GOD isn't punishing anyone. Satan is doing it. That has nothing to do with the video you posted (and which I freely admit I didn't finish because it is false teaching). That teacher does not know what he is talking about, nor do the people who believe him to be knowledgeable of end times events. Some individuals really shouldn't try and teach on this forum.

God isn't punishing anyone, Satan is? So you actually agree with me then that the Tribulation is not the wrath of God! That contradicts your last post when you said that they were the same thing. Please explain this to me, why did you just contradict yourself?

And you didn't finish the video - why not? Are you so caught up in your false pre-Trib doctrine that you're afraid want to let go of it?

[OakWood]

2 hours ago, Ezra said:

Exactly. Propaganda is a lie which repeated enough times becomes the truth.

You're right it is and the pre-Trib rapture is nothing but propaganda.

[missmuffet]

Question: "What is the end times timeline?"

Answer: Got Questions Ministries takes a pretribulational approach to eschatology. From that perspective, here is the order of end-times events that the Bible reveals:

1. The rapture of the church. Christ comes in the clouds to “snatch away” all those who trust in Him (1 Corinthians 15:52). At this same time, the “dead in Christ” will be resurrected and taken to heaven, too. From our perspective today, this is the next event in the eschatological timeline. The rapture is imminent; no other biblical prophecy needs to be fulfilled before the rapture happens.

2. The rise of the Antichrist. After the church is taken out of the way (2 Thessalonians 2:7–8), a satanically empowered man will gain worldwide control with promises of peace (Revelation 13:1; Daniel 9:27). He will be aided by another man, called the false prophet, who heads up a religious system that requires worship of the Antichrist (Revelation 19:20).

3. The tribulation. A period of seven years in which God’s judgment is poured out on sinful humanity (Revelation 6–16). The Antichrist’s rise to power is associated with this time period. During the tribulation on earth, the Church will be in heaven. It is thought that at this time the Judgment Seat of Christ and the Marriage Supper of the Lamb will occur in heaven (2 Corinthians 5:10; Revelation 19:6–10).

4. The Battle of Gog and Magog. In the first part of the tribulation, a great army from the north, in alliance with several other countries from the Middle East and Africa, attacks Israel and is defeated by God’s supernatural intervention (Ezekiel 38–39). (Some commentators place this battle just before the start of the tribulation.)

5. The abomination of desolation. At the midway point of the seven-year tribulation, the Antichrist breaks his covenant with Israel and shows his true colors. The Jews are scattered, and many of them turn to the Lord, realizing that Jesus is their Savior. A great persecution breaks out against all those who believe in Christ (Daniel 12:11; Mark 13:14; Revelation 12:17).

6. The Battle of Armageddon. At the end of the tribulation, Jesus returns with the armies of heaven (Mark 14:62). He saves Jerusalem from annihilation and defeats the armies of the nations fighting under the banner of the Antichrist (Revelation 19:11–21). The Antichrist and the false prophet are captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire (Revelation 19:20).

7. The judgment of the nations. Christ will judge the survivors of the tribulation, separating the righteous from the wicked as “sheep” and “goats” (Matthew 25:31–46). (It is thought that at this time the Old Testament saints will be raised from the dead.) The righteous will enter the Millennial Kingdom; the wicked will be cast into hell.

8. The binding of Satan. Satan will be bound and held in a bottomless pit for the next 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1–3).

9. The Millennial Kingdom. Jesus Himself will rule the world, and Jerusalem will be the capital. This will be a 1,000-year period of peace and prosperity on earth (Revelation 20; Isaiah 60–62). Memorial sacrifices will be offered in a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem (Ezekiel 40–48).

10. The last battle. At the end of the 1,000 years, Satan will be released from his prison for a short time. He will deceive the nations once again, and there will be a rebellion against the Lord that will be quickly defeated (Revelation 20:7–10). Satan will be cast into the lake of fire, never to reappear.

11. The Great White Throne Judgment. All those in hell will be brought forth, and all the wicked from all eras of history will be resurrected to stand before God in a final judgment (Revelation 20:11–15). The verdicts are read, and all of sinful humanity is cast into the lake of fire.

12. The new creation. God completely remakes the heavens and the earth. It is at this time that God wipes away all tears and there will be no more pain, death, or sorrow. The New Jerusalem descends from heaven, and the children of God will enjoy eternity with Him (Revelation 21–22).

http://www.gotquestions.org/end-times-timeline.html

[OakWood]

Just now, bopeep1909 said:

Question: "What is the end times timeline?"

Answer: Got Questions Ministries takes a pretribulational approach to eschatology. From that perspective, here is the order of end-times events that the Bible reveals:

1. The rapture of the church. Christ comes in the clouds to “snatch away” all those who trust in Him (1 Corinthians 15:52). At this same time, the “dead in Christ” will be resurrected and taken to heaven, too. From our perspective today, this is the next event in the eschatological timeline. The rapture is imminent; no other biblical prophecy needs to be fulfilled before the rapture happens.

2. The rise of the Antichrist. After the church is taken out of the way (2 Thessalonians 2:7–8), a satanically empowered man will gain worldwide control with promises of peace (Revelation 13:1; Daniel 9:27). He will be aided by another man, called the false prophet, who heads up a religious system that requires worship of the Antichrist (Revelation 19:20).

3. The tribulation. A period of seven years in which God’s judgment is poured out on sinful humanity (Revelation 6–16). The Antichrist’s rise to power is associated with this time period. During the tribulation on earth, the Church will be in heaven. It is thought that at this time the Judgment Seat of Christ and the Marriage Supper of the Lamb will occur in heaven (2 Corinthians 5:10; Revelation 19:6–10).

4. The Battle of Gog and Magog. In the first part of the tribulation, a great army from the north, in alliance with several other countries from the Middle East and Africa, attacks Israel and is defeated by God’s supernatural intervention (Ezekiel 38–39). (Some commentators place this battle just before the start of the tribulation.)

5. The abomination of desolation. At the midway point of the seven-year tribulation, the Antichrist breaks his covenant with Israel and shows his true colors. The Jews are scattered, and many of them turn to the Lord, realizing that Jesus is their Savior. A great persecution breaks out against all those who believe in Christ (Daniel 12:11; Mark 13:14; Revelation 12:17).

6. The Battle of Armageddon. At the end of the tribulation, Jesus returns with the armies of heaven (Mark 14:62). He saves Jerusalem from annihilation and defeats the armies of the nations fighting under the banner of the Antichrist (Revelation 19:11–21). The Antichrist and the false prophet are captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire (Revelation 19:20).

7. The judgment of the nations. Christ will judge the survivors of the tribulation, separating the righteous from the wicked as “sheep” and “goats” (Matthew 25:31–46). (It is thought that at this time the Old Testament saints will be raised from the dead.) The righteous will enter the Millennial Kingdom; the wicked will be cast into hell.

8. The binding of Satan. Satan will be bound and held in a bottomless pit for the next 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1–3).

9. The Millennial Kingdom. Jesus Himself will rule the world, and Jerusalem will be the capital. This will be a 1,000-year period of peace and prosperity on earth (Revelation 20; Isaiah 60–62). Memorial sacrifices will be offered in a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem (Ezekiel 40–48).

10. The last battle. At the end of the 1,000 years, Satan will be released from his prison for a short time. He will deceive the nations once again, and there will be a rebellion against the Lord that will be quickly defeated (Revelation 20:7–10). Satan will be cast into the lake of fire, never to reappear.

11. The Great White Throne Judgment. All those in hell will be brought forth, and all the wicked from all eras of history will be resurrected to stand before God in a final judgment (Revelation 20:11–15). The verdicts are read, and all of sinful humanity is cast into the lake of fire.

12. The new creation. God completely remakes the heavens and the earth. It is at this time that God wipes away all tears and there will be no more pain, death, or sorrow. The New Jerusalem descends from heaven, and the children of God will enjoy eternity with Him (Revelation 21–22).

That proves nothing. I've given sound scriptural arguments for why the pre-Trib rapture is false. You've just copied and pasted from somebody else.