Words of Jesus proves pre-Trib rapture is false

[OakWood]

Just now, bopeep1909 said:

It is important to know who we are listening to. We do not just take their word blindfolded.

It's not about just taking their word for it - it's about examining their word and testing it against scripture to see whether it's true or not. Y

ou seem to be very good at taking the word of ministeries you like without testing what they are saying. You gave me a list of the chronological order of events and expected me to blindly accept it without testing it. If you actually read the Bible you'll find that the pre-Trib rapture is an invention of man and does not make much sense.

[missmuffet]

2 minutes ago, OakWood said:

It's not about just taking their word for it - it's about examining their word and testing it against scripture to see whether it's true or not. Y

ou seem to be very good at taking the word of ministeries you like without testing what they are saying. You gave me a list of the chronological order of events and expected me to blindly accept it without testing it. If you actually read the Bible you'll find that the pre-Trib rapture is an invention of man and does not make much sense.

Yes, I agree it is testing their word to see it it lines up with a true literal Word of God. I gave you an order of what the Bible says is the end times. I did not expect you to accept it. There was Scripture to back up the facts. I do read the Bible. From what I have read and studied and researched many different end time beliefs I am found the pretrib view the most Biblical. But everyone has their own view. I would never step on your foot Oak like you have mine.

[Hippie333]

Let's please be careful of making false teacher claims... last time I checked there was no absolute undeniable argument for either side of this age old debate. Believing when the rapture will take place is not determining someones Salvation...so let's please not make it into something more than it is.... the rapture at any point is HOPE -

 

God Bless,

Hip

[missmuffet]

Why the Church will not go through the Tribulation by John F. Walvoord.

He is really a good teacher.
 

https://bible.org/seriespage/6-will-church-go-through-tribulation

[tigger398]

Ok I started watching the beginning of it when he was talking about Matt. Now I believe rapture and Matt. are two separate events.

[Guest]

13 hours ago, OakWood said:

God isn't punishing anyone, Satan is? So you actually agree with me then that the Tribulation is not the wrath of God! That contradicts your last post when you said that they were the same thing. Please explain this to me, why did you just contradict yourself?

And you didn't finish the video - why not? Are you so caught up in your false pre-Trib doctrine that you're afraid want to let go of it?

No, your post was worded in the present tense. "If it's the same thing then why is God punishing Christians? Why is he persecuting them, taking away their abilities to buy and sell and even beheading them because they refuse to take the mark?" If you wanted me to understand your thinking, than you should have put it in the future tense. I'm not going to debate you on this issue as you clearly have made up your mind about it even though this preacher is dead wrong. If you are saved, you won't be going through any of it, anyway. So I'm not going to waste any more of my time on this.

[OakWood]

16 minutes ago, Rick_Parker said:

No, your post was worded in the present tense. "If it's the same thing then why is God punishing Christians? Why is he persecuting them, taking away their abilities to buy and sell and even beheading them because they refuse to take the mark?" If you wanted me to understand your thinking, than you should have put it in the future tense. I'm not going to debate you on this issue as you clearly have made up your mind about it even though this preacher is dead wrong. If you are saved, you won't be going through any of it, anyway. So I'm not going to waste any more of my time on this.

Mmm... it doesn't matter what tense I put it in, You should have noticed your error. God's wrath is not the same as the actions of Satan. Don't blame me for your confusion. After all, you claimed that the video was wrong, and that was before I had even posted my comment.

As for you saying that my mind is made up well for a long time I was a fence-sitter, being unsure whether the pre-Trib theory or the post-Trib theory ws true, so I can assure that I am far more open-minded than you are. I didn't start with any pre-conceived ideas and I certainly didn't come to my conclusion because of this video. If you'd read my thread on this subject, you would realise that I posted many objections to the pre-Trib theory. Do you think I'm an idiot? Do you think I make my mind up on the basis of one video? Go back and read my thread and see if you can argue with my observations. If you don't then I'll understand that you don't believe that the pre-Trib theory is worth defending.

But now that I've made my decision and discovered the truth you don't like it. And you won't waste any more time on it because your mind is closed. You don't want to discuss any options that might shatter your precious pre-Trib theory - fine I understand that.

But if you don't want to discuss it further then don't. I don't even know why you replied to this thread in the first place when you didn't even watch the video. You didn't even listen to what the video had to say.

May I remind you of this proverb:

He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.

Proverbs 18:13

 

[Guest]

I didn't say it was. I said that the Wrath of GOD and the Great Tribulation are the same thing and take place in the final 3 1/2 years of the Tribulation. Don't put words in my mouth. How am I to know your intent? I can only read your words and it read to me that you were talking in the present tense. I absolutely believe that the entirety of the Tribulation is from GOD. What we were discussing (me anyway, you are arguing) is whether the two terms, "the Great Tribulation" and the "Wrath of GOD" are the same thing. So....leave me alone, don't quote me again, please. I'm not going to read anything else that you post on this subject as all you are intent on doing is arguing and bickering over a false teaching.

[blevn1]

On 6/13/2016 at 5:42 PM, Rick_Parker said:

GOD isn't punishing anyone. Satan is doing it. That has nothing to do with the video you posted (and which I freely admit I didn't finish because it is false teaching). That teacher does not know what he is talking about, nor do the people who believe him to be knowledgeable of end times events. Some individuals really shouldn't try and teach on this forum.

Revelations says God wrath isnt poured out untill the seventh trumpet. Thats when the angels pours the vials of Gods wrath.

[HAZARD]

 

Words of Jesus Himself proves pre-Tribulation rapture is TRUE!

“Pray that you many be accounted worthy to escape all these things of,  Matt. 24, 25; Luke 21:1-19, 25-28, that shall come to pass, and stand before the Son of man,”  Luke 21:34-36. These two passages in Luke 21:34-36 and John 14:1-3 are the only ones in the Gospels that are clear concerning the Rapture.. Jesus did not reveal this, it was revealed by Paul many years later in 1 Cor. 15:51.

All one needs to do is read God's Word, and believe what one reads, rather than what men think.

A God who could not make Himself clear, or had to be interpreted and be declared a mystery is no God at all. Let us believe, like sensible men, that God can make Himself understood. Please understand this my friends, God will hold men responsible for what He says, not for what men interpret His words to say. He has a right to judge men in the end if they constantly make Him false in all that He says, if they listen to satanic theories. "He that rejecteth me, and recieveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day" (John 12:48; Rev. 20:11-15). This should be enough for men to quit the foolishness of changing God's Word to mean anything they want it to mean? It is the height of ignorance for anyone to claim to know God better than He has revealed Himself to be. The Rapture of the Church before the Tribulation.

The purpose of the rapture is to resurrect the just from the dead and take all the saints out of the world before the tribulation comes, in order that they may have fulfilled in them the purpose for which God has saved them. Jesus told the disciples that some would escape the terrible things that were to transpire on the Earth in the last days. He said, “Pray that you many be accounted worthy to escape all these things of,  Matt. 24, 25; Luke 21:1-19, 25-28, that shall come to pass, and stand before the Son of man,”  Luke 21:34-36. These two passages in Luke 21:34-36 and John 14:1-3 are the only ones in the Gospels that are clear concerning the Rapture.. Jesus did not reveal this, it was revealed by Paul many years later in 1 Cor. 15:51.

 

The disciples did not have the slightest idea as to how they were to escape, unless they thought that Christ would deliver them from these things through His power. The how was not revealed or even mentioned before Paul explained how they were to escape.

The Rapture of the church should never be confused with the second coming or second advent  of Christ, for He does not come to the earth at that time.

The Rapture is a distinct coming in itself, not to the Earth, but in the air where Christ meets the saints and then takes them back to Heaven to present them blameless before God the Father, John 14:1-3; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:16, 17.

 

The Rapture takes place several years before the literal advent of Christ to the Earth, for they, the saints come back with Him at that time. The saints are in Heaven before God, and not in the air, from the time of the Rapture to their coming again with Christ to reign as kings and priests, Jude 14; Rev. 19:14; Zech. 14:5.

At the Rapture, the Lord comes from Heaven as far as the air, or Earthly Heavens and the saints will be caught up to meet Him in the air.

At the second coming, the saints are not raptured, and neither is Christ, but both will come back to the Earth together. The rapture takes place before the Tribulation, whereas the second Advent takes place after the Tribulation. The Rapture could occur at any time, whereas the second Advent cannot occur until after the tribulation.

 

Take note, this is very important to understand that the church will be taken out of the world before the Antichrist is revealed and before the tribulation begins!

 

The bible clearly states that the hinderer of lawlessness must be removed before the Antichrist is revealed,  2 Thess. 2:7-8, For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. V. 8, And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

 

There are only there things in the world today that hinder lawlessness. They are the church, the Holy Spirit and human governments. The hinderer that will be taken out of the world must refer to one of these three things. It could not refer to the Holy Spirit and governments for neither will be taken out of the world. It is clear that governments will not be taken for the Antichrist will reign over the ten kingdoms during the tribulation (Dan. 7:23-24; Rev. 17:8-17). The Holy Spirit will be here during the tribulation, so He could not be the hinderer taken (Acts. 2:16-21; John 14:16; Rev. 7:14; 12:17; 19:10; Zech. 12:10).

 

The Church will be taken out of the world,  (1 Thess. 4:16; Eph. 5:26-27; 1 Cor. 15:51-58), so this must be the hinderer referred to.

 

If you cannot understand how the church could be referred to as "he," see Eph. 2:15; 4:13 where the church is called a "man."