Jump to content
IGNORED

Christ on His own Throne.


Marilyn C

Recommended Posts


  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  30
  • Topic Count:  265
  • Topics Per Day:  0.07
  • Content Count:  13,130
  • Content Per Day:  3.50
  • Reputation:   8,461
  • Days Won:  12
  • Joined:  12/21/2013
  • Status:  Online
  • Birthday:  10/06/1947

I believe that to have a good understanding of eschatology we need to appreciate that -

 1.  Christ is the centre of God`s word,

 2. How Christ operates in the Godhead,

 3. Then to realise that Christ has His `own throne` from which all end-time events unfold.

This enables a Christ centred eschatology based on God`s purposes, instead of an events eschatology which can lead to many opinions of man.

 

Christ`s own Throne.

We know that when the Lord Jesus Christ ascended to glory, He sat down at the right hand of the Father. There He is interceding & building up the Body of Christ. Then in God`s timing Christ will leave this position & go to His own throne.

`To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on my throne, as I also overcame & sat down with my Father on His throne.` (Rev. 3: 21)

 

Question – What do you know from scripture concerning Christ & His own throne?

 

(Note: this discussion concerns the `what, why, where & who` of this `throne, then later I will post another thread for the topic of `when it is set up.`

 

Marilyn.

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  30
  • Topic Count:  265
  • Topics Per Day:  0.07
  • Content Count:  13,130
  • Content Per Day:  3.50
  • Reputation:   8,461
  • Days Won:  12
  • Joined:  12/21/2013
  • Status:  Online
  • Birthday:  10/06/1947

I am posting this little gem of Shiloh`s from another discussion. I believe it really adds clarity to this topic.

`Sitting on a throne is ….an anthropomorphism.   God doesn't have a body because as a spirit God is omnipresent.  He simply refers to his sovereign  authority because a king sitting on a throne is something we can envisage.  So God used something that we are familiar with to communicate the nature of his authority. ` 

Anthropomorphism – the representation of a deity in human form, or with human attributes.

 

Marilyn.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Non-Conformist Theology
  • Followers:  2
  • Topic Count:  48
  • Topics Per Day:  0.02
  • Content Count:  2,139
  • Content Per Day:  0.69
  • Reputation:   796
  • Days Won:  1
  • Joined:  10/20/2015
  • Status:  Offline

`Sitting on a throne is ….an anthropomorphism.   God doesn't have a body because as a spirit God is omnipresent.  He simply refers to his sovereign  authority because a king sitting on a throne is something we can envisage.  So God used something that we are familiar with to communicate the nature of his authority. ` 

 

If God didn't have a body we wouldn't either,as we're made in His image

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest shiloh357
1 hour ago, n2thelight said:

`Sitting on a throne is ….an anthropomorphism.   God doesn't have a body because as a spirit God is omnipresent.  He simply refers to his sovereign  authority because a king sitting on a throne is something we can envisage.  So God used something that we are familiar with to communicate the nature of his authority. ` 

 

If God didn't have a body we wouldn't either,as we're made in His image

That isn't what it means to be made in his image.   We take on his communicable moral attributes, we have the ability to communicate through speech and are able to think in abstract, philosophical terms and have a level of intelligence not possessed by the rest of the created order.

But God has no body, no physical image for us to be created in.   God is an omniscient, non-corporeal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Non-Conformist Theology
  • Followers:  2
  • Topic Count:  48
  • Topics Per Day:  0.02
  • Content Count:  2,139
  • Content Per Day:  0.69
  • Reputation:   796
  • Days Won:  1
  • Joined:  10/20/2015
  • Status:  Offline

19 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

That isn't what it means to be made in his image.   We take on his communicable moral attributes, we have the ability to communicate through speech and are able to think in abstract, philosophical terms and have a level of intelligence not possessed by the rest of the created order.

But God has no body, no physical image for us to be created in.   God is an omniscient, non-corporeal.

I beg to differ...Where is scripture that says God has no body

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest shiloh357
32 minutes ago, n2thelight said:

I beg to differ...Where is scripture that says God has no body

He has provided us with no physical image of himself.   We have no idea what He looks like.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  4
  • Topic Count:  19
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  3,131
  • Content Per Day:  0.69
  • Reputation:   1,091
  • Days Won:  2
  • Joined:  11/03/2011
  • Status:  Offline

8 hours ago, n2thelight said:

I beg to differ...Where is scripture that says God has no body

Col 2:9 - For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.  Col 1:15 He (Christ) is the image of the invisible God...

John 6:46 - No one has seen the Father, except the one who is from God, only he (the Son) has seen the Father.  John 5:37 - And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me.  You have never heard his voice nor seen his form.

So God does have form, we just do not know what that form is or looks like, but His image we do know...  John 14:9 - Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  30
  • Topic Count:  265
  • Topics Per Day:  0.07
  • Content Count:  13,130
  • Content Per Day:  3.50
  • Reputation:   8,461
  • Days Won:  12
  • Joined:  12/21/2013
  • Status:  Online
  • Birthday:  10/06/1947

We know that Christ is – equal, of one mind, & in unity with the Father. We also know from God`s word that in function the Godhead operates in divine procession – the Father initiates & the Son administers.....

Thus for Christ to have His own `throne,` His own authority & power, then it is from the Father. The Father gives the Son the authority & power for rulership over all, (under the Godhead).

I believe this is not to be assumed or to be done quietly in the background but for Christ to be publically recognised & honoured. It is the investiture of regal right – morally & legally, that will be celebrated amid heaven`s throng.

It certainly needs a closer & more thoughtful look into.

 

Marilyn.

 

Edited by Marilyn C
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  30
  • Topic Count:  265
  • Topics Per Day:  0.07
  • Content Count:  13,130
  • Content Per Day:  3.50
  • Reputation:   8,461
  • Days Won:  12
  • Joined:  12/21/2013
  • Status:  Online
  • Birthday:  10/06/1947

Immediately after the Lord says that He will have His `own throne,` His own authority, we see a `throne` being set up. This indicates an authority being appointed.

`To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on my throne...immediately I was in the Spirit; & behold a throne set in heaven,....` (Rev. 3: 21 & 4: 2)

Then there is a description of three gem stones – Jasper, Sardius & Emerald. These were on the breastplate of the high Priest & not only represented a tribe but also had a specific meaning. These help us to understand what God the Father is revealing of Christ, His Son. 

 

Like a Jasper – The Jasper stone was the last gem on the breastplate It represented the tribe of Naphtali whose name means, to prevail,  to conquer . Christ was the last Adam & He prevailed over the world, the flesh & the devil. The `blood-red` colour of the gem indicates the priceless cost of our redemption – Christ`s precious blood. 

 

Like a Sardius – This stone was first on the High Priest`s breastplate. It represented the tribe of Judah which means `to use the hand, indicating power & dominion, and a sceptre. Jesus, as we know, came from the tribe of Judah, but His kingship extends over all.

 

A rainbow like an Emerald – The Emerald gem was also on the breastplate of the High Priest & represented the tribe of Reuben, the first born of Israel. We know that the Lord Jesus Christ is God`s only Son & He is called the firstborn. This is not of birth but of manifestation. Christ is the first, the pre-eminent one. It is through Christ that God`s covenant, represented by the rainbow, is fulfilled.

 

Thus we can see that these are pointing to the first-born Son who prevailed over the enemy & is given authority & rulership in the highest realm. To confirm this we are given a pictorial representation of this momentous occasion. The Son, at the Father`s right hand steps forward & receives the appointed authority.

`...in the midst of the throne....a Lamb.....he came & took the scroll out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne.` (Rev. 5: 6 & 7)

Finally we realise that God Himself has prophesied of this inauguration.

`I have set My King on My holy hill of Zion......You are My Son....I will give you the nations for your inheritance & the ends of the earth for your possession.` (Ps. 2: 6 – 8)

God`s only Son, His first-born, will be appointed as King in the highest position of authority in all the created realms.

 

Marilyn.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  9
  • Topic Count:  40
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  6,543
  • Content Per Day:  1.07
  • Reputation:   2,427
  • Days Won:  1
  • Joined:  06/28/2007
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  10/28/1957

19 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Immediately after the Lord says that He will have His `own throne,` His own authority, we see a `throne` being set up. This indicates an authority being appointed.

`To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on my throne...immediately I was in the Spirit; & behold a throne set in heaven,....` (Rev. 3: 21 & 4: 2)

Then there is a description of three gem stones – Jasper, Sardius & Emerald. These were on the breastplate of the high Priest & not only represented a tribe but also had a specific meaning. These help us to understand what God the Father is revealing of Christ, His Son. 

 

Like a Jasper – The Jasper stone was the last gem on the breastplate It represented the tribe of Naphtali whose name means, to prevail,  to conquer . Christ was the last Adam & He prevailed over the world, the flesh & the devil. The `blood-red` colour of the gem indicates the priceless cost of our redemption – Christ`s precious blood. 

 

Like a Sardius – This stone was first on the High Priest`s breastplate. It represented the tribe of Judah which means `to use the hand, indicating power & dominion, and a sceptre. Jesus, as we know, came from the tribe of Judah, but His kingship extends over all.

 

A rainbow like an Emerald – The Emerald gem was also on the breastplate of the High Priest & represented the tribe of Reuben, the first born of Israel. We know that the Lord Jesus Christ is God`s only Son & He is called the firstborn. This is not of birth but of manifestation. Christ is the first, the pre-eminent one. It is through Christ that God`s covenant, represented by the rainbow, is fulfilled.

 

Thus we can see that these are pointing to the first-born Son who prevailed over the enemy & is given authority & rulership in the highest realm. To confirm this we are given a pictorial representation of this momentous occasion. The Son, at the Father`s right hand steps forward & receives the appointed authority.

`...in the midst of the throne....a Lamb.....he came & took the scroll out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne.` (Rev. 5: 6 & 7)

Finally we realise that God Himself has prophesied of this inauguration.

`I have set My King on My holy hill of Zion......You are My Son....I will give you the nations for your inheritance & the ends of the earth for your possession.` (Ps. 2: 6 – 8)

God`s only Son, His first-born, will be appointed as King in the highest position of authority in all the created realms.

 

Marilyn. 

Shabbat shalom, Marilyn.

Don't get overly symbolic with this. It's not just imagery; it's a very real description of His throne! This is a blood-red description of what - no - WHOM Yochanan sees.

Let's quote the whole thing:

Revelation 4:1-11
1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
2 And immediately I was in the spirit (literally, "on the wind"): and, behold, a throne was set in heaven (the sky), and one sat on the throne.
3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.
4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
6 And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.
7 And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.
8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
9 And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever,
10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
KJV

When we read a little farther, we see...

Revelation 5:6-14
6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.
KJV

Yochanan definitely sees TWO Entities ("Persons") here: The "One" who sits on the throne, and the "Lamb," who takes the scroll from the "One" sitting on the throne. IF Yeshua` is the "Lamb," then the "One" is God the Father! See, verses 9 and 13 makes this clear: The "One" who holds the scroll and from whom the scroll is taken is God, Yeshua`s Father. "The Lamb" ("haKeves" in Hebrew meaning a yearling; that is, a male sheep a year old that has just come to maturity) is the one who TAKES the scroll from the "One" holding the scroll." He is the one who "wast slain and hast redeemed us to God (His Father) by [His] blood." By way of explanation, one should go back to the Greek for clarification, but the "Lamb" is "STANDING in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts." First, one typically doesn't stand in a chair! The Greek phrase is "en mesoo tou thronou kai toon tessaroon zoo-oon" (where "oo" represents an omega while "o" is an omicron).

It doesn't mean to imply that Yeshua` is in the middle of the throne but rather that He is standing BETWEEN the throne and the four living beings.

As I've said before, and must say it again until I'm understood, we MUST keep these two Persons of the Trinity SEPARATE! Without that distinction, we're very liable to make mistakes in our interpretation of various passages.

Jasper stone is BLOOD red - BRIGHT red. In the "bloodstone" known as "jasper" today, it is the red flecks in the green chalcedony that is technically "jasper." Sard or "sardius" ("sardine" being the adjective form) is a brownish-red color. So, Yochanan sees a red Image with brownish-red shading representing the Father. However, this Person - God the Father - is shining brightly, seen as great flashes of lightning! So, why the "green rainbow" around the throne? It's the AFTER-IMAGE of what a person would see looking at a shining, red Image! The throne of God has a green AURA around it!

Yeshua`, who will be given His own throne, has a DIFFERENT throne!

First, notice these other passages that talk about these two Persons:

Revelation 6:12-17
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
KJV

Notice: TWO Persons are recognized: The "One" who sits on the throne, and the "Lamb." And, these kings, great men, rich men, chief captains, mighty men, every bondman (slave), and evey free man are fearful of the "One's" face, but they are distraught by the WRATH of the Lamb! It is the Lamb's WRATH from which they cower!

Revelation 7:9-17
9 After this (the sealing of the 144,000 children of Israel) I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
KJV

This is still clearly showing a distinction between the "One" who sits on the throne and the "Lamb." Verses 15 through 17 are references to FUTURE events; that is, they were events that were FUTURE from that time to which Yochanan is transported within his vision. They are references to the New Earth, yet to be discussed in chapters 21 and 22.

It's not until Revelation 20 that we read,

Revelation 20:4-6
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
KJV

and

Revelation 20:11-15
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
KJV

and finally,

Revelation 22:1-4
1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
KJV

So, we have evidence in these final locations that Yeshua` will have His own throne, as well.

When we use 1 Corinthians 15:20-28 to supplement, we find...

1 Corinthians 15:20-28
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he (God) hath put all things under his (the Messiah's) feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he (God) is excepted, (i.e., God is the exception,) which (who) did put all things under him (the Messiah).
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
KJV

Since this ties in with Revelation 20:4-6, Yeshua` shall reign for a thousand years subduing his enemies until He has put all enemies under His feet. As the final act of this thousand-year period, He shall resurrect all who remain in their graves and hold the Great White Throne Judgment. Yeshua` Himself said,

John 5:21-30
21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
KJV

At the end of this thousand-year period, this "Millennium," is the time when Yeshua` shall be subject to His Father, that God may be all in all. 

HOWEVER, that's not when His reign, or His reign on earth, ends!

Luke 1:30-33
30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
KJV

To harmonize and rectify these events, it's clear (to me, anyway) that He shall hand the EMPIRE - the WORLD rulership - over to His Father, while He remains Israel's King forever. Thus, Israel - the MESSIAH'S Israel - shall last forever and shall extend into the Eternal State of the New Earth with its New Sky and the landing of the New Jerusalem. I believe that the reason that this new, huge city will be so named is because it will be centered at the global position of the OLD Jerusalem.

The New Jerusalem - God's "Bedouin Tent" - shall be our House, and the whole, New Earth shall be our backyard!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...