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The False and Inaccurate Post Trib Doctrine


Montana Marv

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8 hours ago, WilliamL said:

So, to get this nailed down, you are saying that those sealed by God in their foreheads -- which must include the 144,000, if not be them exclusively -- are all killed at or by the 6th Seal?

Or, all of the 144,000 still surviving after the 6th Seal will by then have become unbelievers?

William

No, they are Unbelievers not becoming Believers until the 2nd Coming.

We are/were sealed as Believers in Christ before Creation, Yet we lived in Sin and were Lost until our Salvation.  The same with those of Israel, they are Unbelievers until they see the one who they have pierced.  Then their sin is removed in a day.  Zech 13:2 - On that day, I will banish the names of idols from the Land, and they will be remembered no more..... and compare with Rev 9:20 - The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands, they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood...

So idol worship will be prevalent worldwide during the later part of the time of Great Distress.  Even for those of Israel who will later become His Elect, which they already are, but just do not know it..

In Christ

Montana Marv

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On 6/23/2016 at 7:57 AM, Last Daze said:

I agree wholeheartedly.  I consider this specific obfuscation of terminology to be the main pillar of the pretrib fallacy. 

The sixth seal is the ending of the great tribulation and announces the coming of God's wrath.  There's no overlap between the two.  They are distinctly separate events according to scripture.

When dealing with tribulation and wrath, its imperative to determine the source and the object, who's causing it and who is being affected.

The source of the great tribulation is the deceived world led by the man of sin.  It affects believers.

  • Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.  Matthew 24:9
  • And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast.  Revelation 13:14a
  • If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you.  John 15:19

The source of God's wrath is self-explanatory.  It affects those who receive the mark of the false prophet and worship the image.

  • And they said to the mountains and to the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb; for the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”  Revelation 6:16-17  [sixth seal]
  • Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God."  Revelation 14:9-10a

The great tribulation (world against believers) is followed by God's wrath (God against world).

Agreed. 

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On 6/24/2016 at 7:00 PM, Montana Marv said:
On 6/24/2016 at 10:36 AM, WilliamL said:

So, to get this nailed down, you are saying that those sealed by God in their foreheads -- which must include the 144,000, if not be them exclusively -- are all killed at or by the 6th Seal?

Or, all of the 144,000 still surviving after the 6th Seal will by then have become unbelievers?

No, they are Unbelievers not becoming Believers until the 2nd Coming.

We are/were sealed as Believers in Christ before Creation, Yet we lived in Sin and were Lost until our Salvation.  The same with those of Israel, they are Unbelievers until they see the one who they have pierced.  Then their sin is removed in a day.  Zech 13:2 - On that day, I will banish the names of idols from the Land, and they will be remembered no more..... and compare with Rev 9:20 - The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands, they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood...

So idol worship will be prevalent worldwide during the later part of the time of Great Distress.  Even for those of Israel who will later become His Elect, which they already are, but just do not know it..

To say that the 144,000, "the servants of our God" (Rev. 7:3), will practice idol worship, lacks any credibility.

Likewise, we read in Rev. 12 that the offspring of the Woman who flees into the wilderness for 1260 days -- the period of the Great Tribulation, according to you -- "keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus." 12:17

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3 hours ago, WilliamL said:

To say that the 144,000, "the servants of our God" (Rev. 7:3), will practice idol worship, lacks any credibility.

Likewise, we read in Rev. 12 that the offspring of the Woman who flees into the wilderness for 1260 days -- the period of the Great Tribulation, according to you -- "keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus." 12:17

William

When do the 144,00 become servants of God?  I believe at the 2nd Coming.  So nothing has changed on my part.

And with Rev 12:17, These are at the onset of the 42 months (3 1/2 years),  I put the 6th Trumpet at least 2 1/2 years after/from the onset of the 42 months.  So nothing has changed on my part, just 2 1/2 years for the purging of all Believers.

In Christ

Montana Marv

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2 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

When do the 144,00 become servants of God?  I believe at the 2nd Coming.  So nothing has changed on my part.

And with Rev 12:17, These are at the onset of the 42 months (3 1/2 years),  I put the 6th Trumpet at least 2 1/2 years after/from the onset of the 42 months.  So nothing has changed on my part, just 2 1/2 years for the purging of all Believers.

And the Second Coming IS the Rapture, but you don't accept that.

The 144,000 Israelites see Jesus coming in the clouds after the cosmic disturbances of the 6th Seal, come to faith in him whom they pierced, and then are sealed/sanctified in their foreheads; but they remain on the earth, because they were not believers at the time of his Coming. But the believers, those who WERE ready, go up into the cloud with Jesus; and then the Wrath begins. But God still has a remnant of faithful ones on the earth, the 144,000, because God always has a remnant of faithful ones on the earth.

The Lord comes in clouds, every eye sees him, the elect ascend, the Jews are converted, the heathen wail, the Wrath begins.

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