Genesis - From a Different Perspective

[Seve]

49 minutes ago, Ezra said:

God and Christ are un-created Light.  Had this been the same as the light which was spoken into existence, there would have been no need for God to say "Let there be light".  What He would have then said is "Let Christ's light shine forth".

Dear Ezra,

Scripture documents us that the Son was at the bosom of the invisible God hath declared him (Jhn 1:18)... from the beginning; from everlasting. The Son came forth/begotten into the.. physical world from the invisible realm of his Father, when, God spoke the “Word” in the beginning and said “Let there be light”.

YHWH, Son, became the only God physically formed for us to see and witness; before him there was none; neither there shall be after him (Isa 43:10) Without him was not anything  made that was made (Jhn 1:3)... Because in him was life (Jhn 1:4). 

That’s also exactly why the Son is called the 1^st born of every creatures (Col 1:5) ...even before He was physically born again thru Mary’ womb in the New Testament.

God bless

Edited June 23, 2016 by Seve

[Guest shiloh357]

9 minutes ago, Seve said:

Dear Ezra,

Scripture documents us that the Son was at the bosom of the invisible God hath declared him (Jhn 1:18)... from the beginning; from everlasting. The Son came forth/begotten into the.. physical world from the invisible realm of his Father, when, God spoke the “Word” in the beginning and said “Let there be light”.

YHWH, Son, became the only God physically formed for us to see and witness; before him there was none; neither there shall be after him (Isa 43:10) Without him was not anything  made that was made (Jhn 1:3)... Because in him was life (Jhn 1:4). 

That’s also exactly why the Son is called the 1^st born of every creatures (Col 1:5) ...even before He was physically born again thru Mary’ womb in the New Testament.

God bless

No, that is not why He is called the first born.   Jesus was eternally pre-existent with the Father from the dateless eternal past.   Jesus is the Creator in Genesis 1, according to John 1:1-3. 

The term firstborn has nothing to do with being born.  It is a title.  It means that Jesus (due to his obedience to the Father) has been made the head or chief of all creation.   Jesus was never born at any time before his incarnation on earth.   Jesus always "was."   Firstborn is simply a title meaning that Jesus is the chief and he was given that title at His exaltation.

[Seve]

1 hour ago, shiloh357 said:

No, that is not why He is called the first born.   Jesus was eternally pre-existent with the Father from the dateless eternal past.   Jesus is the Creator in Genesis 1, according to John 1:1-3. 

The term firstborn has nothing to do with being born.  It is a title.  It means that Jesus (due to his obedience to the Father) has been made the head or chief of all creation.   Jesus was never born at any time before his incarnation on earth.   Jesus always "was."   Firstborn is simply a title meaning that Jesus is the chief and he was given that title at His exaltation.

Wrong my friend.  Your religious opinion is not supported by the Scripture. 

Jesus is called the 1st born of every creature simply because he was begotten into this physical world, the first time, from the bosom of the Father... before He was made flesh and born again into this world (the 2nd time), thru Mary's womb in the New Testament.

Do you want another Scripture for your further study of the above?

YHWH or Jesus, the Son of God,  is called thy Maker not the Creator as documented in the Book of Genesis. Read again - ref:  your own cited text below....

[Jhn 1:1-3 KJV] 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were MADE by him; and without him was not any thing MADE that was MADE.

 

Note: Here's another texts in context for you better understanding....  Insertions are mine for clarity of presentation:

 

Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were Created (thru the power of the Father's logos), in the day that the LORD God MADE (by the Son' physical hands) the earth and the heavens,

 

Isa 54:5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

 

Edited June 23, 2016 by Seve

[Seve]

 

Dear Readers,

Here below, for additional study and understanding....

Being brought forth or begotten into the physical world in the beginning of Genesis, YHWH became the only God physically formed for us to see and witness. Isa 43:10

In fact, He's appeared and been seen on so many occasions by his chosen people in the Old Testament, in one physical form or another. Then, He was Sent Again into our World and Made Flesh to saved us from  our  sins.

Remember, the Almighty God Father is an invisible Spirit - without shape or form - and changes not.

Heb 1
v4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
v5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten Thee? And Again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
v6 And Again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Why do we suppose the words "AND AGAIN" repeated 2x in the context of the text? Let's continue reading below....

v10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

I see.. IOW.... YHWH was brought forth (begotten) the 1st time into our world in the beginning and MADE the Worlds with his own hands for inhabitation, thereof... because, without him, there was not anything made that was made.

v9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

YHWH, the Son, became known as Jesus Christ in the New Testament - the God of the whole world shall he’ll be called. 

God bless

Edited June 23, 2016 by Seve

[HAZARD]

Gen. 1 : 1, 1,  In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

 Isa. 45 : 18, For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

Gen. 1 : V. 2, And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Earth was made chaos; end of Earths first perfect state and sinful career because of Lucifers rebellion,

The overthrow of the World that then was,

2 Peter 3 : 5-7,

V. 5, For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing1 out of the water and in the water:
   

V. 6, Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
   

V. 7, But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Jer. 4 : 23-26,

V. 23, I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
   

V. 24, I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
   

V. 25, I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
   

V. 26, I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.

A summery of creative ages.

(Gen. 1 : 1 ; Job. 38 ; Hebrews 11 : 3).

Earth described before plants were restored in day three (Gen. 1 : 9-13 ; 2 : 8-14).

 

 

[Guest shiloh357]

1 hour ago, Seve said:

Wrong my friend.  Your religious opinion is not supported by the Scripture. 

Jesus is called the 1st born of every creature simply because he was begotten into this physical world, the first time, from the bosom of the Father... before He was made flesh and born again into this world (the 2nd time), thru Mary's womb in the New Testament.

Do you want another Scripture for your further study of the above?

YHWH or Jesus, the Son of God,  is called thy Maker not the Creator as documented in the Book of Genesis. Read again - ref:  your own cited text below....

[Jhn 1:1-3 KJV] 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were MADE by him; and without him was not any thing MADE that was MADE.

 

Note: Here's another texts in context for you better understanding....  Insertions are mine for clarity of presentation:

 

Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were Created (thru the power of the Father's logos), in the day that the LORD God MADE (by the Son' physical hands) the earth and the heavens,

 

Isa 54:5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

 

The Bible calls God both the maker/creator of heaven and earth in several places.  They are interchangeable terms.   Jesus is the Creator/Maker per John 1:1-3, Col. 1:15-18 and Heb. 1:1-2.

The Bible doesn't say that Jesus is the firstborn of every creature.   Col. 1:18 says he is the firstborn from the dead.   I Cor. 15:20 says that he is the first born of them that slept.   So you are misquoting Scripture.   Nowhere does the Bible say it is the firstborn of every creature.

And by the John 1:1-3 uses the word "was" in Greek in an interesting way.   The Greek verb "was"  is a third person imperfect tense and it means "was always, without beginning or end."   The Word always existed, as eternally as the Father.    It says, "The Word was with God"  again, with the same imperfect third person tense meaning that he was always without beginning or end, God.  The word "with" is a Greek word that indicates intimacy of relationship, face to face.  And it says that He "was" God.  Again, same verb, "was" and the same imperfect third person tense meaning that there was never a time and never will be a time that He won't be God.  He was always God, is still God and will always be God according to John 1: 1-3.

That's not my religious reasoning; that's Bible, pure and simple. 

 

[Seve]

40 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

The Bible calls God both the maker/creator of heaven and earth in several places.  They are interchangeable terms.   Jesus is the Creator/Maker per John 1:1-3, Col. 1:15-18 and Heb. 1:1-2.

The Bible doesn't say that Jesus is the firstborn of every creature.   Col. 1:18 says he is the firstborn from the dead.   I Cor. 15:20 says that he is the first born of them that slept.   So you are misquoting Scripture.   Nowhere does the Bible say it is the firstborn of every creature.

Perhaps, your preconceived notion is blurring your reading comprehension. Your view is refuted by your own cited texts below...

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

The Son is the express image of the invisible God...

 

[Heb 1:1-3 KJV] 1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

 

Who sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on High? ...... And who do you think the Majesty on high being referred to in the text? 

 

Now, tell me, how many separate Entities are there in the text - the Father and the Son?

 

 

Edited June 23, 2016 by Seve

[Ezra]

3 hours ago, Seve said:

That’s also exactly why the Son is called the 1^st born of every creatures (Col 1:5) ...even before He was physically born again thru Mary’ womb in the New Testament.

Seve,

I believe you have arrived at a misunderstanding of the eternal Son of God -- who is also God the Word. There are many that believe the Jesus is not actually God, but was created by God the Father.  That is not what Scripture reveals. Jesus is fully God, and in Him dwelleth the fulness of the Godhead bodily (Colossians 1:15-19; 2:9).

Jesus is as much God as the Father, and the Holy Spirit. It is true that creation is assigned to the Word of God (John 1:1-3 and other passages). But the Father and the Holy Spirit were as much involved as the Son.  Yet He is the Creator (Hebrews 1:8-12).

We could fairly say that God the Word -- who is un-created Light -- said "Let there be light", and thereby brought cosmic light into existence, even before the heavenly bodies were created.  He could just as easily have allowed His own light to shine on creation, but there was a plan to every aspect of creation.  Even the fact that it was a six-day creation had a mathematical and spiritual basis.

[Guest shiloh357]

40 minutes ago, Seve said:

Perhaps, your preconceived notion is blurring your reading comprehension. Your view is refuted by your own cited texts below...

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

 

I stand corrected on that.   But that doesn't change the fact that "firstborn" doesn't refer to being literally "born."  It was a title of preeminence.   It simply means "head of" or "chief."   Jesus is the head over or chief over ever creature.  It doesn't mean he was the first person ever born.  

[Seve]

27 minutes ago, Ezra said:

Seve,

I believe you have arrived at a misunderstanding of the eternal Son of God -- who is also God the Word. There are many that believe the Jesus is not actually God, but was created by God the Father.  That is not what Scripture reveals. Jesus is fully God, and in Him dwelleth the fulness of the Godhead bodily (Colossians 1:15-19; 2:9).

Jesus is as much God as the Father, and the Holy Spirit. It is true that creation is assigned to the Word of God (John 1:1-3 and other passages). But the Father and the Holy Spirit were as much involved as the Son.  Yet He is the Creator (Hebrews 1:8-12).

We could fairly say that God the Word -- who is un-created Light -- said "Let there be light", and thereby brought cosmic light into existence, even before the heavenly bodies were created.  He could just as easily have allowed His own light to shine on creation, but there was a plan to every aspect of creation.  Even the fact that it was a six-day creation had a mathematical and spiritual basis.

 

Dear Ezra,

Where do you get the idea that I don't consider Jesus Christ, the Son, as God to begin with? Almost the entirety of the Scripture speaks about the Son, our God. YHWH is Jesus Christ himself, the Son of the invisible God Father.

Therefore, your assumption/belief/argument of my position of the matter is fallacious.

I will refer you to my rebuttal w/c is address to you directly below... and perhaps you can give me an idea where you got your assertion of my belief.

 God bless

4 hours ago, Seve said:

Dear Ezra,

Scripture documents us that the Son was at the bosom of the invisible God hath declared him (Jhn 1:18)... from the beginning; from everlasting. The Son came forth/begotten into the.. physical world from the invisible realm of his Father, when, God spoke the “Word” in the beginning and said “Let there be light”.

YHWH, Son, became the only God physically formed for us to see and witness; before him there was none; neither there shall be after him (Isa 43:10) Without him was not anything  made that was made (Jhn 1:3)... Because in him was life (Jhn 1:4). 

That’s also exactly why the Son is called the 1^st born of every creatures (Col 1:5) ...even before He was physically born again thru Mary’ womb in the New Testament.

God bless

. Thanks

 

 

Edited June 24, 2016 by Seve