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Genesis - From a Different Perspective

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40 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

I stand corrected on that.   But that doesn't change the fact that "firstborn" doesn't refer to being literally "born."  It was a title of preeminence.   It simply means "head of" or "chief."   Jesus is the head over or chief over ever creature.  It doesn't mean he was the first person ever born.  

 

Yes, the Son was at the bosom of the invisible realm of the Father and born into our physical world, literally speaking.... becoming the only God physically formed for us to see and witness. Isa 43:10

Psalm 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Also, did you read my postings above ref. Heb 1:4-10?  See below...

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Dear Readers,

Here below, for additional study and understanding....

Being brought forth or begotten into the physical world in the beginning of Genesis, YHWH became the only God physically formed for us to see and witness. Isa 43:10

In fact, He's appeared and been seen on so many occasions by his chosen people in the Old Testament, in one physical form or another. Then, He was Sent Again into our World and Made Flesh to saved us from  our  sins.

Remember, the Almighty God Father is an invisible Spirit - without shape or form - and changes not.

Heb 1
v4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
v5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten TheeAnd Again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
v6 And Again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Why do we suppose the words "AND AGAIN" repeated 2x in the context of the text? Let's continue reading below....

v10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

I see.. IOW.... YHWH was brought forth (begotten) the 1st time into our world in the beginning and MADE the Worlds with his own hands for inhabitation, thereof... because, without him, there was not anything made that was made.

v9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore Godeven thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

YHWH, the Son, became known as Jesus Christ in the New Testament - the God of the whole world shall he’ll be called. 

God bless

 

Edited by Seve

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1 minute ago, Seve said:

 

Yes, the Son was at the bosom of the invisible realm of the Father and born into our physical world, literally speaking!

Also, did you read my postings above ref. Heb 1:4-10?  See below...

 

 

John 1:1-3 tells us that Jesus and the Father enjoyed a perfect, face-to-face fellowship.  Jesus was not in the bosom of the Father.   Jesus was not born into the physical world until His incarnation.   Jesus appearance pre-incarnation are what we call theophanies. 

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Being brought forth or begotten into the physical world in the beginning of Genesis, YHWH became the only God physically formed for us to see and witness. Isa 43:10

Not seeing how Is. 43:10 helps your argument.  All that verse is saying is that God has no competitor.  He alone is God and He alone holds that unique position.

Furthermore, there is NO passage in the Bible that says that Jesus was brought forth into the physical world at the beginning of Genesis. 

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Heb 1
v4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
v5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten TheeAnd Again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
v6 And Again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Why do we suppose the words "AND AGAIN" repeated 2x in the context of the text? Let's continue reading below....

v10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

I see.. IOW.... YHWH was brought forth (begotten) the 1st time into our world in the beginning and MADE the Worlds with his own hands for inhabitation, thereof... because, without him, there was not anything made that was made.

Heb. 1:5, "this day have I begotten thee, according to Paul in Acts. 13:33 is speaking of the resurrection.

Heb. 1:6 is talking about the second coming.  The firstbegotten and firstborn are the same thing.  They refer to Jesus as having existed before everything that was made and that He is the head of all creation.   It has nothing to do with being literally born.

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41 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

John 1:1-3 tells us that Jesus and the Father enjoyed a perfect, face-to-face fellowship.  Jesus was not in the bosom of the Father.   Jesus was not born into the physical world until His incarnation.   Jesus appearance pre-incarnation are what we call theophanies.

The Scripture disagree with you. look....

[Jhn 1:18 KJV] 18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].

 

41 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Not seeing how Is. 43:10 helps your argument.  All that verse is saying is that God has no competitor.  He alone is God and He alone holds that unique position.

Furthermore, there is NO passage in the Bible that says that Jesus was brought forth into the physical world at the beginning of Genesis

Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD (YHWH), and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

To be witnessed is to be seen first hand. YHWH, the Son, had appeared in person on several occasion to his chosen people in the Old Testament - representing the express image of the invisible Almighty God, as documented by the Scripture.

No man hath seen the invisible Almighty God at anytime. Therefore, YHWH is the Son of God himself.... and not the invisible God Father.

And in order to be out of the bosom of the Father, the Son had to brought forth or begotten into the physical world from the invisible realm of the Father in the beginning of Genesis... becoming the only God physically formed for us to see and witness.

Without the physical hands of the Son, there could not have anything made that was made.

41 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Heb. 1:5, "this day have I begotten thee, according to Paul in Acts. 13:33 is speaking of the resurrection.

Heb. 1:6 is talking about the second coming.  The firstbegotten and firstborn are the same thing.  They refer to Jesus as having existed before everything that was made and that He is the head of all creation.   It has nothing to do with being literally born.

Your religious view is not articulated and distorted due to your edition of my quotes into pieces (chop-chop) distorting the thought of the thrust of the message - therefore, there is no need for rebuttal... But you are entitled to believe  whatever you want, anyway.... 

Edited by Seve

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8 hours ago, Seve said:

The Scripture disagree with you. look....

[Jhn 1:18 KJV] 18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].

 

I am sorry, I should clarify further.  My point was that Jesus was not in the bosom of the Father in the sense that you are portraying that statement.   Jesus was not "born" out of the Father in Genesis. 
 

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Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD (YHWH), and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

To be witnessed is to be seen first hand. YHWH, the Son, had appeared in person on several occasion to his chosen people in the Old Testament - representing the express image of the invisible Almighty God, as documented by the Scripture.

No man hath seen the invisible Almighty God at anytime. Therefore, YHWH is the Son of God himself.... and not the invisible God Father.

 

Your first mistake is claiming that the Father is not YHVH.   That is demonstrably false from the Hebrew OT.   The Name YHVH applies to Father, Son and Holy Spirit.   The term "witnesses"  doesn't mean what you assign to it.  It refers to those who affirm or attest as witness to a propositional truth.   It doesn't mean "seen God with physical eyes."

Jesus is the express image  of the Father, but it is important to look at what the Scriptures say that means in Col. 1:15-18.   Jesus is the moral image of the Father.   He is the image of the Father in terms of God's attributes, both communicable and non-communicable.    Jesus, as John puts it, is the explanation or the exegesis of the Father.

Your argument that God the Father is not YHVH is without biblical foundation.  That is a claim you have not proven and cannot prove.

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And in order to be out of the bosom of the Father, the Son had to brought forth or begotten into the physical world from the invisible realm of the Father in the beginning of Genesis... becoming the only God physically formed for us to see and witness.

That is not in the Bible.

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Your religious view is not articulated and distorted due to the edition of my quotes into distortion of the thought of the thrust of the message - therefore, there is no need for rebuttal... But you are entitled to believe  whatever you want, anyway.... 

My "religious view?"   You started this thread and titled it as being from your perspective.  My view is no more "religious" than yours.

Translation:  I can't refute it, so I will summarily brush it off...

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3 hours ago, Seve said:

The Son came forth/begotten into the.. physical world from the invisible realm of his Father, when, God spoke the “Word” in the beginning and said “Let there be light”.YHWH, Son, became the only God physically formed for us to see and witness; 

Your phraseology is the source of confusion. At the time of creation Christ did not take physical form at all.  After creation He appeared to men as Theophanies (or Christophanies), and after His incarnation He appeared to men as Jesus of Nazareth.

I said, O my God, take me not away in the midst of my days: thy years arethroughout all generations. Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands. They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed: But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end. (Psalms 102:24-27)

 

And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail. (Hebrews 1:10-12)

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you can't post "here's MY take" and then tell everyone else that they're wrong for disapproving of your opinion when that's what a forums is for, to discuss. 

 

Plus it doesn't matter what a personal take is on something when the biblical/absolute truth can't be taken differently.

 

There is no point in posting something and then being rude to everyone who disagrees, especially without showing evidence. 

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8 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

Your first mistake is claiming that the Father is not YHVH.   That is demonstrably false from the Hebrew OT.   The Name YHVH applies to Father, Son and Holy Spirit.   The term "witnesses"  doesn't mean what you assign to it.  It refers to those who affirm or attest as witness to a propositional truth.   It doesn't mean "seen God with physical eyes."

Jesus is the express image  of the Father, but it is important to look at what the Scriptures say that means in Col. 1:15-18.   Jesus is the moral image of the Father.   He is the image of the Father in terms of God's attributes, both communicable and non-communicable.    Jesus, as John puts it, is the explanation or the exegesis of the Father.

Your argument that God the Father is not YHVH is without biblical foundation.  That is a claim you have not proven and cannot prove.

 

6 hours ago, Ezra said:

Your phraseology is the source of confusion. At the time of creation Christ did not take physical form at all.  After creation He appeared to men as Theophanies (or Christophanies), and after His incarnation He appeared to men as Jesus of Nazareth.

Dear Readers,

Here's how you can reconcile the separation and the bringing forth of the Son of God into the physical world from the bosom of the     invisible realm of his Father in the Beginning.... using only the Scriptures (3) .... my witnesses

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1

The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. Prov. 8:22

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.   Gen 1:2

The same was in the beginning with God. John 1:2


was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.Prov 8:3

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. Gen, 1:3


All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:3

When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. Prov 8:24

And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.Gen.1:4

In him was life; and the life was the light of men.John 1:4

Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: Prov 8:25

And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. Gen 1:5

And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. John 1:5

 

Edited by Seve

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Guest Robert

I have a few questions, Seve:

What is the purpose of posting this "different perspective" on Genesis?

How does any of this help us in our walk with the Lord, or strengthen our faith?

Is any of this serving to edify and unite the brethren in the Lord?

 

 

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Guest Robert
9 minutes ago, Seve said:

 

Dear Readers,

Here's how you can reconcile the bringing forth of the Son of God into the Physical World from the Bosom of the Invisible Father in the Beginning  - using only the Scriptures (3) as my witnesses

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1

The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. Prov. 8:22

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.   Gen 1:2

The same was in the beginning with God. John 1:2

I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.Prov 8:3

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. Gen, 1:3

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:3

When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. Prov 8:24

And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.Gen.1:4

In him was life; and the life was the light of men.John 1:4

Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: Prov 8:25

And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. Gen 1:5

And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. John 1:5

 

And there is the danger of "cherry picking"; you're mixing single verses out of context together, much like someone taking parts from 12 different cars and claiming it's an automobile. When a verse is removed from its' context, it can be made to say virtually anything.

 

I'm sorry, but this is an irresponsible use of the Word of God, and I cannot abide it.

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13 minutes ago, Seve said:

 

Dear Readers,

Here's how you can reconcile the bringing forth of the Son of God into the Physical World from the Bosom of the Invisible Father in the Beginning  - using only the Scriptures (3) as my witnesses

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1

The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. Prov. 8:22

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.   Gen 1:2

The same was in the beginning with God. John 1:2


was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.Prov 8:3

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

and there was light

 Gen, 1:3

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:3

When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. Prov 8:24

And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.Gen.1:4

In him was life; and the life was the light of men.John 1:4

Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: Prov 8:25

And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. Gen 1:5

And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. John 1:5

 

Proverbs 8 has a woman named "Wisdom" as its narrator.  In the immediate context, it is not Jesus that the writer has in mind.   You are ignoring basic rules like context in order to promote your agenda.

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