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Genesis - From a Different Perspective


Seve

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On 6/23/2016 at 8:12 PM, Seve said:

 

 

Here's  how I read Genesis 1:1-2 - A Preface or Introduction

The Almighty God Father first Created (thru power of his logos) the materials or matters needed in order for his Son (Jesus) to physically form/fashion with his own hands our heavens and earth.

In the context of the text, I see the narrative as saying: Insertions are mine for presentation.

In the beginning God Created the heaven (Air) and the Earth (Ground). And the Earth (Ground) was without form, (Dust) and void (Empty); and darkness was upon the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

The 3 things necessary for all physical form are shown.. Air, Dust, and Water.Everything which is physical is composed of these 3 things. The text is correct in showing that the water was not directly created, or spoken into being, because it consists of elements of the Air or Atmosphere. Water is Hydrogen and Oxygen and came from the Atmosphere and is not shown as a separate creation.

 

God bless

Here you have a model of the materials for heaven and earth appearing before God causes them to appear. Remember God names the "Earth" and the "Heaven" on the days that they appear. So as far as we are concerned, if we were watching creation, we would not see anything until the fourth day when God made the sun. And if we could see in the dark, we would see the earth and heaven appear on the second and third day as recorded by Moses.

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On 6/25/2016 at 7:23 PM, Kan said:

And if we could see in the dark, we would see the earth and heaven appear on the second and third day as recorded by Moses.


but He created light first - and separated it from darkness, and called it "day" - before He created the stars. 
stars are not the only source of light .. ? 

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Just now, post said:

and called it "day"

He called the light, "day" -- in Hebrew, "yom" 

boy, that word can have many meanings, can't it? :laugh:

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2 hours ago, post said:


but He created light first - and separated it from darkness, and called it "day" - before He created the stars. 
stars are not the only source of light .. ? 

Is that light which God spoke on the first day still shining?

If it is, why can't we see it, as it says in Job 37:21 "men no longer see the light which is in the clouds." (The light causes the clouds to form and cold moist air to rise). ?

 

(The light is involved in every operation and state of matter, from the charge of an atom, to gravity, inertia, mass etc. Once we understand what it does, we can see it working everywhere.

For instance, the  darker, cooler spots on the sun are caused by an excess, so to speak, of this invisible light. The light causes energy to be conserved or held back in time. The opposite of the light are the waters, which cause a release of energy. Since the light causes gravity, the flames of the sun are pulled into the sunspot. And with the waters, a release of energy such as a solar flare, reduces the effect of gravity in the center, making a gradient of stronger gravity around it, so that a sunquake which often occurs during a solar flare, has waves which accelerate away from the flare, instead of moving at a steady pace as a normal shock wave.)

Accelerating shock waves baffle scientists.

boo.jpg

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2 hours ago, post said:

He called the light, "day" -- in Hebrew, "yom" 

boy, that word can have many meanings, can't it? :laugh:

The most obvious clue here is that the light is related to time. Light = Day. "And the evening and morning were the first day/time.

We know that "Yom" is that famous misnomer for "old earthers," It is an indefinite word for time, however, it is defined by the context or sentence it is in. Word association.

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7 hours ago, Kan said:

The most obvious clue here is that the light is related to time. Light = Day. "And the evening and morning were the first day/time.

We know that "Yom" is that famous misnomer for "old earthers," It is an indefinite word for time, however, it is defined by the context or sentence it is in. Word association.


it's OK to 'make light' of this, isn't it? 

((more word associations)) 

:laugh:

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On 6/23/2016 at 4:59 AM, Seve said:

 

Here's my take - From my own Biblical Perspective


Genesis 1:1 Is a Preface or Summary -The Story of the "Beginning" of the Physical World.
Genesis 1:2  Narrates us the condition of the deep (dark - void) before the world was.
Genesis 1:3 Documents us the bringing forth of the Light before anything is made that was made; before the world was.
Genesis 1:4 The division / separation of Light Day from Darkness - the first work of old.
Genesis 1:5 The evening & the morning, the first day.

Notice: The heaven and the earth were still formless and void on the first day? The first formation of the PHYSICAL heaven only took place on the 2nd day (Gen. 1:6-8) not Gen 1:1

A per second day, ding, ding, ding...but there is a much deeper story here. The Hebrew word used for day ca mean Day, Year or a period of time.

"yom" is a period of time, not always a day. I have done an in depth study, of science and Religion, then I tried to merge the two together using logic. For starters, God confused us at Babel, so He doesn't necessarily want us to know all that He knows. If the Universe is 13.7 billion years old and the Earth only 4.5 billion years old, why would anyone assume the First Day was 24 Hours ? My belief is below, I am not stating it is a fact, just my deductive reasoning. 

God Created the Universe in His own time frame. Looking to the WMAP, (NASA Program) the way the Universe is Mapped by the Microwaves, then reading the Creation Story, it all fits. Anyone that thinks God was speaking of Earth Rotations (Days) seems off kilter, the Earth was not even around until the Universe was 9.2 billion years old !! The WMAP map shows how the "Darkness was on the face of the Deep."

God has no time in His Realm probably, or is not subject to time. Causation came about with the Creation of our universe. My "TIME THEORY of Creation" is based on study not just guess work. Since the Universe was created, and Earth was Formed 9.2 billion years latter, then the first day had to be 9.2 billion years Old:

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and Darkness was on he face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

{ Notice, the Earth was void and without form, that is because God only Spoke it into Creation, it actuality it took 9.2 Billion years to form. Notice it says there was darkness on the face of the deep ? Well the WMAP/NASA Project, which has mapped out the Universe with Microwaves, says there was darkness on the face of the deep. (Big Bang, followed by Inflation, followed by Cosmic Microwave background where after 380,000 years loose electrons cool enough to combine with protons. The Universe becomes Transparent to Light. The Microwave background begins to shine. Then the dark ages/clouds of dark hydrogen gas cool and coalesce. }

{ The first stars appear..........Gas Clouds collapse, the fusion of Stars begin, the first of which appears at about 400 million years after the Big Bang. SO............When the Bible says Darkness was on the face of the deep, God knew exactly what was happening in the very beginning !! See Map Below. }

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. {{ The First day was Darkness and Light. People have often confused this, but God is saying there was Darkness, then Light (Stars formed at 400 million years).......That was the first day. It lasted 9.2 Billion years, give or take a few million years....LOL. }}

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. {{ How does a firmament (Heaven/Air) divide the waters from the waters ? Well, God placed waters on the Earth, and the Sky has water in the Air, that's why it Rains !! This was the Second Day, so it couldn't have Started any sooner than 4.5 Billion years ago. And the Grasses and Herbs began to appear at about 900 Million years B.C. according to my study of Science books, so the Second Day lasted from 4.5 Billion years until about 900 Million years B.C. And as God stated, that was the 2ND DAY/Period of Time. }}

9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good. 11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

{{ So, since the Grasses and herb yielding fruits came about around 900 Million Years B.C. to 800 Million years B.C. that becomes the 3RD DAY. }}

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

{ Seems God set the Seasons, and that was the fourth day. Probably happened at about the same time as the 3rd day, fairly close imho. The Greater light was the Sin, the lesser night was the Moon, and God created the Stars. The Reason stars are mentioned again is Stars started being created at the 400 Million mark, was still being created 4.5 Billion years ago, and are still being formed. }

20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. 21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

{{ Through a study of Science books and such it is determined that the Sea Creatures have been around much longer than the Land Creatures, and that jibes with Gods account here..............About 500 Million years ago the Sea Creatures and fowl came along, and that was the 5TH DAY. It lasted until about 250 million years B.C. }}

24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. 29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. 30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

{{{ Through studying Science again the land animals/creatures started showing up around 250 million years ago. So this was the 6TH day........From 250 million years B.C. until 6000 years B.C. when God created man and rested from His creation. }}}

We are now in Gods day of rest or the 7TH DAY of Rest, which did no come to a stop after ONE DAY, because it is a SET PERIOD OF TIME............ or a "Yom".

This actually all fits together in Gods timeline. It can not be perfect by the numbers of course, but it is an approximation that makes more sense than an earth that is only 6000 years old. Or in believing a universe that magically appeared from nothing.

Many seem think that man is much older than 6000 years old, I ask, why is it nor recorded in history ? Secondly, Man only became Man when God imparted him with a Soul, and put His Spirit in us. Any Animal created before this impartation that made us into human beings (or made us in the image of God) , was not a Human Being as we are known today. They would just be another animal, nothing more, nothing less. 


Again, this is only my belief from studying both science and the bible. God Bless. Notice below the DARK AGES, and then the Stars, the Evening and the Morning. Darkness then Light. 

CMB_Timeline75.jpg

Edited by Revelation Man
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On 6/23/2016 at 1:37 PM, Seve said:

Sure, it's a long one... (process of convincing)... but I will try it, anyway... Read below...

Each of God's Days is NOT 24 hours since the word days comes from the Hebrew word Yowm which can mean 12 or 24 hours, a lifetime or an Eternity. A Day is a period of labor and God has ONLY 6 periods of labor when He is working to make His perfect Heaven and fill it with perfect mankind. 

Yowm is a period of Labor or work when God is doing His work of creating. There is NO time limit or number of days, years, etc. A good example is the Scriptural Fact that TODAY remains the 6th Creative Day and this Day will NOT end until AFTER our Cosmos is burned which is AFTER Jesus rules and reigns on Earth for a thousand years. Rev 20:5

Since, science has measured the time since the First Stars of our Cosmos put forth their Light and date that time at some 13.7 Billion years ago.... God agrees and shows us that our Cosmos and at least one other Heaven were made on the 3rd Day. Gen 2:4

We live today at Gen 1:27 since God is STILL creating mankind in His Image or in Christ, as ANY Church will tell you. That means that ALL Humans have lived and died on the present 6th Day or Age, which will NOT end until AFTER Jesus returns at the end of time, and changes EVERY creature into Vegetarians, Gen 1:30 BEFORE the present 6th Day ends. 

There is no interpretation needed since Science has measured the time since the Big Bang at 13.7 Billion years ago, and God shows it was 3 of His Days or Ages ago, which means that EACH of God's Days is some 4.5 Billion years in length, in man's time. God's Truth is the Truth Scientifically, Historically, and in EVERY other way, IF you can understand God's Holy Word

 

I agree with most of what you say, however you have a few things that's off-kilter, however this stuff seems to be over most peoples intellectual capacity, so I give you kudos.

A Yom is a period of time/labor. Not a Day, which is nonsensical. 

The Stars did not start being created until there was 400 Million years of Darkness (Darkness was on the face of the Deep) so technically it was 13.s Billion years ago when the command for the stars to be created came forth. But I get you point, the universe is 13.7 Billion years old.

 

Here is where we disagree, we are not in the Sixth Day, we are in the Seventh Day just as the Holy Word says. Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. The Universe is still forming, but God gave the command to create the Universe/Heavens and Earth in verse 1:1. When God commands something, it is done, no matter how much time it takes, God doesn't have to command it again. This is why the Sun was not created on the fourth day, nor the stars, but on the first day. Even though the sun and earth came into existence on the Second day. God only divided the light or set the Earths Axis where the Seasons would be dived correctly. Stars are still forming today, but God created them on the First Day with His command, He is now resting, or has Ceased from Commanding His Creation to come forth in the manor He desires, all the commands have been put forth.

 

The First Day was 9.2 Billion years, because the Second Day was the Earth and the Waters above and below the earth being divided. 

 

Grass came on the Third Day, so the Earth was there on the Second Day, and if the Earth was there the Sun had to be there to hold it in its orbit. The Periods of time is more like this.....Beginning to Earth and Sun was Formed = 9.2 Billion. From Earth and Sun to Grasses in the Third Day was 3.6 Billion years, that's the Second Day. The Rest of the Days are in the last 900 Million years with the Sixth Day being from about 250-300 Million years BC, the Dinos were created and died within this Day, man was Created at the 6000 year BC mark and God the Rested from His creation. If there were any "MEN" around before this 6000 BC mark they were only Animals without Souls. 

 

And we are not created in Gods image now, we are born in Satan's image, thus we need Redemption to to be born in the Spirit, back into the Image of God.

 

We are pretty much on the same page on the timing though.

 

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On 7/28/2016 at 2:32 PM, Bluebird said:

I'm going to stick my neck out here and post something I wrote in 2010. I had long wondered about the Creation account, because I have respect for both science (no, I do NOT believe the evolution theory, but, yes I do believe the sequence of the appearance of life on Earth). One morning, I was driving to work, enjoying a favorite song that had nothing to do with any of this, and a thought started running around in my head: "Genesis works if viewed from the surface of the Earth". In other words, if your perspective were you standing on this planet watching Creation unfold, the Genesis account would make scientific sense... I was so excited, I couldn't wait to get home and see if this could work. It did, and I wrote the essay that follows.

First, I have a deep and abiding respect for God Almighty and His Son Jesus Christ. Second, I am firmly convinced that A. the Book of Genesis is every bit as inspired as the rest of Scripture, and B. science is held to a high enough standard of proof that what is considered proven, as in gravitational law, for example, that science is also quite valid. That being said, we do have a seeming conflict of interest between Genesis Chapter 1, verses 1-13 and gravitational science -- or do we?

Genesis 1:1-13 NIV
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

6 And God said, "Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water." 7 So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the expanse "sky." And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

9 And God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear." And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground "land," and the gathered waters he called "seas." And God saw that it was good.

11 Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

Is it scientifically feasible that this description of the creation of planet Earth is the view, if you will, from the surface of the Earth?

2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.


3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.


If, in the earliest formation of the Earth, water was partly ocean and very misty steam, light would have not penetrated to the surface. Think a very heavy cloud cover like when a big storm makes a day dark, only extremely heavy, so the sunlight couldn’t penetrate. This would almost certainly be the case in the early formation of this planet.

6 And God said, "Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water." 7 So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the expanse "sky." And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

Our hypothetical extreme humidity is clearing more, and we have the formation of a recognizable atmosphere.

9 And God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear." And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground "land," and the gathered waters he called "seas." And God saw that it was good.

The first continent(s) appear as the excess water penetrates the cooling earth.

11 Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

The appearance of the first vegetation. Scientific theory in practice if memory serves.


14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth." And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

Now our theoretical atmosphere is really clearing, probably because of the emerging plant life; now the Moon and stars at night can be seen from the surface of the Earth.

20 And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky." 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth." 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.

Now the water has fish, matching perfectly with the best theories of the sequence of the development of life on Earth. Plus the air has birds, which nobody dares suggest, with the notable exception of the One Who made them and put them there...

24 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

Followed by life on land.

26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

Followed by humanity. I rest my case...

I am entirely serious.

 

"Science is held to a high enough standard of proof that is considered proven... is also quite valid."

With respect, I'm going to take issue with that statement. Science is not science with the deliberate intent and presumption to prove there is no creator God. A singularity of unknown origin the size of of an atom erupted into a 'big bang' and created the universe? The scientific Bible of Darwinism and we evolved from primordial scum soup? When your foundation of science is totally flawed, is it really science?

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Guest Robert
38 minutes ago, Bluebird said:

Doesn't look to me like you read my post there, Dennis.

Agreed Bluebird.

6 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

"Science is held to a high enough standard of proof that is considered proven... is also quite valid."

With respect, I'm going to take issue with that statement. Science is not science with the deliberate intent and presumption to prove there is no creator God. A singularity of unknown origin the size of of an atom erupted into a 'big bang' and created the universe? The scientific Bible of Darwinism and we evolved from primordial scum soup? When your foundation of science is totally flawed, is it really science?

Bluebird was reconciling science and the account of Genesis. I see nothing there that contradicts one another, and the science is not flawed. Perhaps instead of "panic fighting" science out of fear that it would disprove Scripture, that we should instead use it to demonstrate the validity of it.

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