woundeddog Posted June 28, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,370 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 1,054 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/21/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/18/1868 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Okay- I am not making any doctrinal statement here but this is something I have been trying to puzzle out for awhile. Do you think that the modern "sinners prayer" or verbally accepting Christ has taken the place of the young Churches practice of baptism?? The Ethiopian Eunuch story does not relate that he prayed anything to start his Christian life-- he just stated he believed and asked to be Baptized-- today it seems we ( for the most part) count the beginning of our Christian lives with a prayer or commitment. For us osas folks we know that its really our moment of belief in Jesus that starts our salvation but I'm wondering if we now count the start of our Christian life with a prayer rather than the action of being baptized?? am I making a clear question here? any input would be appreciated ~~~~~~( I know that we are admonished to be baptized but its not necessary for salvation ( thief on the cross) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Patriot21 Posted June 28, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 28 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 15,707 Content Per Day: 2.46 Reputation: 8,523 Days Won: 39 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/27/1985 Share Posted June 28, 2016 way to stir the hornets nest. Let me add in where I have come into this. First off, the "sinners prayer" never, actually appears in scripture (not once!) however, confession and repentence, is repeated multiple times. (Romans 10:9, JMWA 5:16, 1 john 1:9) Baptism on the other hand, is tied in with virtually every case of salvation except for one in the entire new testament, in one form or another. The only exception, is the thief on the cross, and is in fact commanded in two places, much like confession (mark 16:16 and Acts 2:38) and in both cases, are tied with repentence. This invokes the age old argument, is baptism, required for salvation. Some say adamantly yes, in fact thats what you need to do, and actively disregard the sinners prayer, because the sinners prayer "isnt" found in the Bible and is a "work" while on the other side of things (im going to extremes on both sides, most people will fall somewhere in the middle) will say that the "sinners prayer" is confession and repentence, and all that is required, and that baptism is "salvation by works" the irony of it is, both sides are right, and wrong at the same time, because they are missing the key ingredient. While the sinners prayer isnt found in scripture, repentence and confession is, and so is baptism! but the thing is, neither one saves you!!!!!!!!! Christianity isnt a club, where you do "this" and your in, theres no secret pass key, no "dunk you and your in" type thing. Salvation, is a heart change! it is a life change. It is turning your heart, and soul, to Jesus. If you do this, you will confess your sins and repent of them-because you know what-you know your a sinner unworthy of His love, and your going to admit it and ask forgiveness-and your also going to follow through with baptism! not because its "what saves you" but because it is commanded by God as a testiment and outward expression of your love and willingless to change. I do feel many churches under emphasize baptism, but its not what saves you. what saves, is Christs redeeming blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 22 minutes ago, woundeddog said: Okay- I am not making any doctrinal statement here but this is something I have been trying to puzzle out for awhile. Do you think that the modern "sinners prayer" or verbally accepting Christ has taken the place of the young Churches practice of baptism?? The Ethiopian Eunuch story does not relate that he prayed anything to start his Christian life-- he just stated he believed and asked to be Baptized-- today it seems we ( for the most part) count the beginning of our Christian lives with a prayer or commitment. For us osas folks we know that its really our moment of belief in Jesus that starts our salvation but I'm wondering if we now count the start of our Christian life with a prayer rather than the action of being baptized?? am I making a clear question here? any input would be appreciated ~~~~~~( I know that we are admonished to be baptized but its not necessary for salvation ( thief on the cross) I have never seen where the sinner's prayer has ever taken the place of baptism. The sinner's prayer is just a point of contact. That's all it is. It's not for God's benefit and it doesn't have any salvational properties. The sinner's prayer simply serves as a means of allowing you to remember a point in time when you were saved, when you said yes to Jesus from the heart. It's your heart response in faith, believing the Gospel, which saved you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Faith in the Finished Work of Jesus Christ on the Cross is what saves a person. Baptism is an act (work) of obedience to show one's appreciation for Christ's Finished Work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woundeddog Posted June 28, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,370 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 1,054 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/21/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/18/1868 Author Share Posted June 28, 2016 1 hour ago, The_Patriot2016 said: way to stir the hornets nest. well some ones gotta do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted June 29, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,851 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,760 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted June 29, 2016 4 hours ago, woundeddog said: well some ones gotta do it! 6 hours ago, woundeddog said: Okay- I am not making any doctrinal statement here but this is something I have been trying to puzzle out for awhile. Do you think that the modern "sinners prayer" or verbally accepting Christ has taken the place of the young Churches practice of baptism?? The Ethiopian Eunuch story does not relate that he prayed anything to start his Christian life-- he just stated he believed and asked to be Baptized-- This Jewish procylite was upright and he had the righteousness of the Law, he was not a sinner, he did not live the life of a sinner. He asked to be baptize from him self, Philip must have explain to him about Jesus instructions, to baptize the believer in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. This way Philip introduce him to the Holy Spirit. what the baptism meant to him? From his customs, baptism is a custom from cleansing ones self. So he shaw that he put away the old Jewdaism, and put on the new, the faith of Jesus Christ. He will not go to Jerusalem next year, as it was his custom, not for the same reasons anyway. So he had a story to tell the folks when he get home. That he left home as a Jewish prosylite and something happen on the way home, and return home as believer in Jesus Christ. Telling people about his baptism, it help them to not see him as a Jewish procylite anymore but as the believer of Jesus Christ. Quote today it seems we ( for the most part) count the beginning of our Christian lives with a prayer or commitment. For us osas folks we know that its really our moment of belief in Jesus that starts our salvation but I'm wondering if we now count the start of our Christian life with a prayer rather than the action of being baptized?? am I making a clear question here? any input would be appreciated ~~~~~~( I know that we are admonished to be baptized but its not necessary for salvation ( thief on the cross) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted June 29, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,242 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 16,652 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted June 29, 2016 Rom 10:9 WEB that if you will confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Rom 10:10 For with the heart, one believes unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Some of the fruit of salvation is a hunger for God's Word and confession of ones decision to trust and follow Christ. That is most often demonstrated by public baptism. I have a grand daughter who has been saved for several years. She has been leading Young Life Bible studies at her school, has been in the leadership of teen versions of the Walk to Emmaus, and is active in both church and her youth group. Yes, she has struggles as do we all. And I know that God will eventually put baptism on her heart. It was 2 years before I was baptized from the time I repented and confessed my turning to God for forgiveness. The people I told first were the people I had wronged when I tried to make things right with them. Baptism meant joining a church that I could not support, so It didn't mean a lot to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted June 29, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,242 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 16,652 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted June 29, 2016 37 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said: This Jewish procylite was upright and he had the righteousness of the Law, he was not a sinner, he did not live the life of a sinner. He asked to be baptize from him self, Philip must have explain to him about Jesus instructions, to baptize the believer in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. This way Philip introduce him to the Holy Spirit. what the baptism meant to him? From his customs, baptism is a custom from cleansing ones self. So he shaw that he put away the old Jewdaism, and put on the new, the faith of Jesus Christ. He will not go to Jerusalem next year, as it was his custom, not for the same reasons anyway. So he had a story to tell the folks when he get home. That he left home as a Jewish prosylite and something happen on the way home, and return home as believer in Jesus Christ. Telling people about his baptism, it help them to not see him as a Jewish procylite anymore but as the believer of Jesus Christ. All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Romans 3:23 There is None righteous, no not one. Romans 3:10 Jews must also come to repentance and depend on God for a righteousness based on faith in God's promises. Read Romans 3 and 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted June 29, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 29, 2016 8 hours ago, woundeddog said: Do you think that the modern "sinners prayer" or verbally accepting Christ has taken the place of the young Churches practice of baptism?? What has really happened is that the Bible doctrine of baptism has not been taught or practiced as it should be. Whenever the Gospel is preached or shared, the necessity of water baptism (by immersion) immediately after conversion should be also preached (or shared). That is generally not what has happened, and some of the well-known evangelists have been just as guilty as anyone else. Most Gospel tracts do not mention baptism either. The key passages of Matthew 28:18-20, Mark 16:15,16 and Luke 24:46-48 clearly show that repentance, believing and baptism are inextricably linked. And that is exactly the pattern in the Acts of the Apostles. In fact, Peter COMMANDED the household of Cornelius to be baptized immediately upon receiving the Holy Spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted June 29, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 29, 2016 1 hour ago, Willa said: t was 2 years before I was baptized from the time I repented and confessed my turning to God for forgiveness. The people I told first were the people I had wronged when I tried to make things right with them. Baptism meant joining a church that I could not support, so It didn't mean a lot to me. Willa, Here is a good example of how the Bible teaching on baptism has been perverted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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