Jump to content
IGNORED

PREDESTINATION


WarriorforHim

Recommended Posts


  • Group:  Diamond Member
  • Followers:  6
  • Topic Count:  44
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  1,370
  • Content Per Day:  0.25
  • Reputation:   1,054
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  06/21/2009
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  07/18/1868

7 hours ago, DARRELX said:

 

We can understand from scripture though that Adam and Eve were set up by God to fall

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
 
God does not set people up to sin
7 hours ago, DARRELX said:

Not to have people living in a garden naked but to have glorified saints sanctified by Christ into glorious heavenly bodies. 

There where two trees in the Garden, if Adam and Eve would have eaten of the tree of life mankind would have been translated into glorious heavenly bodies-- they had free will to make a choice and they chose wrong-- God knew they would from before creation, but that does not mean he made them choose wrong so he could look good by offering salvation. He knew before creation he would have to have a plan to redeem man-- so in fact he does look good ( Thank you Lord)

to think that God created us as wind up toys with out a mind seems to defeat the whole idea of having companionship with folks who do love him

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  96
  • Topic Count:  304
  • Topics Per Day:  0.08
  • Content Count:  18,094
  • Content Per Day:  4.65
  • Reputation:   27,773
  • Days Won:  327
  • Joined:  08/03/2013
  • Status:  Offline

Quote

Without trying to think of excuses why God fails to do what he is able to do, and even alledgedly wants to do, I am comfortable with the idea that it is His universe, His rules, and His soveriegn choice to do as pleases Him, according to the pleasure of His will.

He is not answerable to me in the least, it is not my business to question why He sends people to Hell. I can wonder, for sure, but it is enough to know that His nature is such, that He can do what He wants and call it good, without my approval.

I do not find it strange, that He does not choose everyone to salvation, I find it marvelous, that He chooses to save anyone, since no one deserves it!!

                                                                                                                                          posted by Omegaman

GREAT,FANTASTIC,EXCELLENT,AMEN!!!!     We certainly would be "out of our League" to even imagine we could,for one moment,understand His Ways,,,,,,

He is indeed omniscient & He has indeed given us,FREE WILL                                  With love-in Christ<kwik

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Advanced Member
  • Followers:  8
  • Topic Count:  10
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  132
  • Content Per Day:  0.05
  • Reputation:   93
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  06/26/2016
  • Status:  Offline

:rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Seventh Day Adventist
  • Followers:  4
  • Topic Count:  0
  • Topics Per Day:  0
  • Content Count:  281
  • Content Per Day:  0.10
  • Reputation:   167
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  06/25/2016
  • Status:  Offline

Ephesians 1:5 Having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to himself.

This is another way of saying, this is Gods work & not our own.

Do we have free will, is God love, does he want us to serve & honour him from our love from free will.

What is the use of creating us to be puppets without free will. There is no reciprocal love in that. 

To say that we are predestined to be saved is to say that the whole plan of salvation is a hoax because we have no choice in our destiny.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  18
  • Topic Count:  8
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  7,776
  • Content Per Day:  2.42
  • Reputation:   2,729
  • Days Won:  3
  • Joined:  06/05/2015
  • Status:  Offline

On 7/4/2016 at 11:07 AM, WarriorforHim said:

Has God predetermined who will or will not go to heaven?  The term predestination the context of salvation literally means: knowing  who to choose or own before the beneficiary's decision will be made in agreement  with  the  call  to salvation. God who is omniscient already knew in eternity past who would respond in agreement with His offer of eternal life through Christ Jesus by faith.

God predetermined that salvation would be by grace through faith in Christ crucified alone.. Thus, all are afforded the opportunity to be saved (Titus 2:11)  11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, God never predestined that people would go to hell (2 Peter 3:9) The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. As a matter of fact, hell was purposefully and exclusively prepared for satan and his angels (Matthew 25:41) Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels. While it is both true and tragic that people are going to hell... they do so at their OWN choosing.   God has purposed that people would be born to be born again ( 1 Timothy 2:4) who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. This required God's offer of salvation and man's responsibility to receive God's gift of eternal life by faith. God will never save anyone without their consent ( John 1:12) But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name. Predestination has to do with more than just going to heaven. God has predestined that all who would believe on the Lord Jesus Christ would be conformed to the image of Christ. It is to every Christians advantage to grow in the likeness of Christ.   Life eternal and internal do not exist apart from Christ .

 

 

 

In the old times not every one but the Israelites were set apart from the rest of the world through the sircumsition and later the practices in the Law of Moses. 

But the sircumsition and the  Law did not remove the Adamic death inheritance in Abraham, Isaak, Jacob and his seed. The Law offered forgiveness of sins and sanctification . and did not promise the life and the Spirit and a Heavenly inheritance.

The point at hand is that God from the beginning new that the earthly inheritance ( who is your father), couple with sircumsition and later the Law it was not the way for mankind to be save, and that is very obvious because it excludes the rest of the world, and not only that, but the Israelites also were excluded from the Heavenly inheritance, and the life of God and remain seperated and distance from God all the time alive or dead.

Even the high priest was under the same course.

The propose of God was all the time from the very beginning to reconciled the world to him self through  jesus Christ.and to give man life and a Heavenly inheritance through Jesus Christ, and sanctification for the whole world through Jesus Christ. 

This is to emphasize only one way for all, the same way for Jews and Gentiles.

For it is obvious that the Law can not bring many thing , and only Jesus can.

This statement is doing away with the Jewish Law.

Even thought God gave the Law first, it had from the beginning propose to give a Savior to the world, and save the world through Jesus Christ.

This is was told from the very beginning at the fall before Abraham was chosen, and the sircumsition given and later the Law of Moses.

The promise was made, that the seed of the woman will crash your head, pointing to the Savior of the world Jesus Christ.

With the Holy Spirit, on earth, the Spirit of truth, which is helping every man to come to the faith of Jesus Christ, 

That's why the instructions are to inform the people about Jesus Christ and leave them to the Holy Spirit.

Not only that, but even before the people hear the Gospel, the Holy Spirit was able to prepare the hearts of many people,  before even they hear the Good news .

The Lord told Paul stay here , I have many people who are thirsty and ready for the Good news, in Corinthians .

The Macedonia man, whom the Lord had prepare and the girl with the divination Spirit, what a love story , Jesus did not exclude anyone , the gates of the Spirits who held her in bondage did not prevail and were defeated by the Lord. 

The Holy Spirit was going before Paul ,preparing people for his coming . amazing. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  34
  • Topic Count:  1,989
  • Topics Per Day:  0.49
  • Content Count:  48,687
  • Content Per Day:  11.89
  • Reputation:   30,342
  • Days Won:  226
  • Joined:  01/11/2013
  • Status:  Offline

If God is choosing who is saved, doesn’t that undermine our free will to choose and believe in Christ? The Bible says that we have the choice—all who believe in Jesus Christ will be saved (John 3:16; Romans 10:9-10). The Bible never describes God rejecting anyone who believes in Him or turning away anyone who is seeking Him (Deuteronomy 4:29). Somehow, in the mystery of God, predestination works hand-in-hand with a person being drawn by God (John 6:44) and believing unto salvation (Romans 1:16). God predestines who will be saved, and we must choose Christ in order to be saved. Both facts are equally true. Romans 11:33 proclaims, “Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out!”

http://www.gotquestions.org/predestination.html

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest shiloh357

Every New Testament doctrine, including redemption,  has an OT type/shadow associated with it.  Calvinism, particularly predestination as understood by Calvinism, has no OT corollary.

For example, when the Israelites were commanded to put the blood on the doorposts of their homes in Egypt, the death angel spared ALL of the homes of the Israelites that had the blood.   Any Egyptian firstborn that was in a house with the Passover lamb's blood on the door posts as instructed would have been saved, because the death angel was only looking at the blood.

The exodus from Egypt is the archetype of redemption, and we don't see that only a predetermined group of Israelite firstborn were redeemed from slavery; God did not select some Israelites to redeem and others to remain in Egypt.  Every firstborn under the blood, both Israelite and Egyptian was redeemed.

Calvinism is a human construct, not a biblical one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  96
  • Topic Count:  304
  • Topics Per Day:  0.08
  • Content Count:  18,094
  • Content Per Day:  4.65
  • Reputation:   27,773
  • Days Won:  327
  • Joined:  08/03/2013
  • Status:  Offline

Blessings Shiloh

      Amen! You have a wonderful way of "telling it" Brother,beautifully said                 To God be the Glory                  With love-in Christ,Kwik

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Thallasa
On ‎05‎/‎07‎/‎2016 at 3:33 PM, Ezra said:

This is totally false. While God is not limited in any way He DOES NOT violate His own word.  You ignored the three Bible truths which God has laid out in His Word as shown in my post, and to which He is committed. 

Selecting apostles is not the same as predestining men for salvation.  And Pharaoh's heart was hardened only AFTER he hardened his own heart (true for all sinners).

Absolutely Ezra . God chose the apostles  because He could see into their minds and hearts  in a way they themselves could never have done , and so He chose them to teach them. And God punishes those who are stubborn in their rebellion  against Him by allowing  their hearts to become  even harder, to the point that they become self destructive .  He does this by withdrawing His light and grace ,and so they are helpless in their sin, in the long term .

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  68
  • Topic Count:  185
  • Topics Per Day:  0.04
  • Content Count:  14,204
  • Content Per Day:  3.35
  • Reputation:   16,629
  • Days Won:  30
  • Joined:  08/14/2012
  • Status:  Offline

On July 22, 2016 at 3:33 PM, Thallasa said:

Absolutely Ezra . God chose the apostles  because He could see into their minds and hearts  in a way they themselves could never have done , and so He chose them to teach them. And God punishes those who are stubborn in their rebellion  against Him by allowing  their hearts to become  even harder, to the point that they become self destructive .  He does this by withdrawing His light and grace ,and so they are helpless in their sin, in the long term .

Amen!  Act 7:51 WEB “You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit! As your fathers did, so you do."  Some do stubbornly resist the call and conviction of the Holy Spirit.  They harden their own hearts in unrepentance;  God may also harden their hearts like He did Pharoh's or satan may enter a person's heart like he did Judas.  I don't know.  But I do agree that man must bear his own responsibility for being lost.  God calls all and is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.  1Ti 4:10 WEB For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we have set our trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.  1Ti 2:3  WEB For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; :4  who desires all people to be saved and come to full knowledge of the truth.  :5  For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6  who gave himself as a ransom for all; 

Joh 3:19  This is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their works were evil. 20  For everyone who does evil hates the light, and doesn’t come to the light, lest his works would be exposed.  1Ti 1:15  The saying is faithful and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.  

Ephesians is addressed to the saints, those already set apart repentant born again believers.  Before the foundation of the world God chose us in Him that we should be holy and without blame before Him.  When we consider that God is outside of time and can see the end from the beginning, it is not hard to see that He has predestined all who are in Him to all the blessings of Ephesians 1.  God's sovereignty is still in tact if He allows some to resist Him and choose not to inherit these blessings.  He may call them fools, but still He allows them to go their own stubborn prideful way.  

We are only predestined when we are in Christ, as I read Ephesians 1.  Please correct me where I am wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...