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PREDESTINATION


WarriorforHim

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1 hour ago, Behold said:

As ive not said anything about Jesus being "raised", or about him being a "different God", i assume you must be making something else up.

Now, here is one of the things you need to consider......When you are reading the New Testament, you have to realize the TIME and SITUATION and the AUDIENCE that is being addressed.

So, If this is not the BORN AGAIN CHURCH that is being addressed,  then you have to be careful not to try to CREATE DOCTRINE from verses that are not designed as doctrine.

Dont do that.


What spirit do you imagine dwelt in Jesus? look at the context you think is missing and falsely accuse me of "twisting"

"It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. But there are some of you who do not believe.” 
(For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) And he said, 
This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.
(John 6:63-65)

He is talking about the Spirit, and the life of the Spirit, and He says His words are spirit. 
But you say this has nothing to do with the Spirit.
He is talking about who believes and who does not believe -- which He knew from the beginning, regardless of individual 'agency' to 'choose' to believe. 
He directly refutes the idea that anyone can choose to believe without being enabled by the Father to do so. 

You are defending Pelagianism, an historical heresy. 
I have scripture, I have the Spirit, I have the words of Jesus Christ Himself, and I have every church council since 300 AD condemning what you say.

You have: your opinion. 

There is the truth. Jesus Himself said it. If you refuse to believe Him, out of your vanity, why should you believe me? So i will no longer speak to you about it. Don't bother replying. 

 

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4 minutes ago, post said:


What spirit do you imagine dwelt in Jesus? look at the context you think is missing and falsely accuse me of "twisting"
 

Post, 

Again and again, you have written your (theologically) out of context opinions, and honestly...... what you do write,..... cant be deciphered.

 so, no need to follow up.

Thx,

 

<B><

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  • 6 months later...

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On 8/5/2016 at 9:38 PM, Butch5 said:

The word predestination simply means to predetermine something. The Reformers tied this word to salvation and people have been arguing it ever since. The Scriptures use the word predestination to speak of God's dealing with Israel, not whether Joe has or have not been chosen to be saved.

:thumbsup:

Predestinated

“The days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah.

It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband tod them,” declares the Lord.

“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time,” declares the Lord. “I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest,” declares the Lord.

“For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.” Jeremiah 31:31-34 (New International Version)

By

 

and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written:“The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.” Romans 11:26-27 (New International Version)

Love

Many of the people of Israel are now enemies of the Good News, and this benefits you Gentiles. Yet they are still the people he loves because he chose their ancestors Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. For God’s gifts and his call can never be withdrawn. Romans 11:28-29 (New Living Translation)

~

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27 (King James Bible)

Love, Your Brother Joe

~

Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalms 119:160 (King James Bible)

The Bible contains the mind of God, the state of man, the way of salvation, the doom of sinners, and the happiness of believers. Its doctrines are holy, its precepts are binding, its histories are true, and its decisions are immutable.

Read it to be wise, believe it to be safe, and practice it to be holy. It contains light to direct you, food to support you, and comfort to cheer you.

It is the traveler’s map, the pilgrim’s staff, the pilot’s compass, the soldier’s sword and the Christian’s charter. Here too, Heaven is opened and the gates of Hell disclosed.

Christ is its grand subject, our good its design, and the glory of God its end. It should fill the memory, rule the heart and guide the feet. Read it slowly, frequently and prayerfully.  It is a mine of wealth, a paradise of glory, and a river of pleasure.

It is given you in life, will be opened at the judgment, and be remembered forever. It involves the highest responsibility, rewards the greatest labor, and will condemn all who trifle with its sacred contents.

From The Inside Of My Gideon New Testament

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Guest BacKaran

Biblical hermanuetics would state this is a near-far topic.

It included those at Christ time and all born again believers born since then along with the righteous in paradise.

Amen Fresno Joe.

Edited by BacKaran
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There's a limit to omniscience capacity to predetermine? 

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On ‎14‎/‎08‎/‎2016 at 2:42 AM, post said:

no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
(John 6:65)

the vain, Pelagian idea of free-will conversion,
destroyed.
 in a single passage, by Christ's own words.


((thank God!!))

Conversion still has to come from the heart. It cannot be forced in any way. We DO have free will to accept or reject Christ

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On 8/14/2016 at 1:42 AM, post said:

no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
(John 6:65)

 in a single passage, by Christ's own words.


 

That's a passage from the book of John. The gospels, the synoptic gospels, are anonymous writings. They are not eyewitness journaling but hearsay. The names for the books aren't crediting the four apostles with the names that appear on them. https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/2183/when-and-how-did-the-names-matthew-mark-luke-and-john-get-attached-to-the-gos

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58 minutes ago, TheMatrixHasU71 said:

Conversion still has to come from the heart. It cannot be forced in any way. We DO have free will to accept or reject Christ

How do you figure our will is able to do other than what was pre-destined by God himself? 

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Predestination/Election is greatly misunderstood. But there are some very clear passages concerning them. Concerning election, Romans 8:28-30  "And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified."

But concerning what God predetermines, in regard to our actions, we must understand that our God knows the end from the beginning. And if we truly believe that He is a God who knows all things, and there are books written with our works before the foundations of the world, that this same God has allowed all things to pass as they will be at judgment day.

This means that He allows all the evil to happen, but is not Himself the author of the evil. He chooses to sovereignly intervene, according to His perfect purposes, as is pleasing to His will. Is a person not saved, or a hurricane destroys a city? He could have changed the outcome, but He did not. It is not for us to know the beginning from the end, but to glorify Him in our election. For who are we to talk back to God? Who are we to say to the Potter that He has no right over the clay, and no right over the earth?

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3 minutes ago, lance.dunlop said:

Predestination/Election is greatly misunderstood. But there are some very clear passages concerning them. Concerning election, Romans 8:28-30  "And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified."

But concerning what God predetermines, in regard to our actions, we must understand that our God knows the end from the beginning. And if we truly believe that He is a God who knows all things, and there are books written with our works before the foundations of the world, that this same God has allowed all things to pass as they will be at judgment day.

This means that He allows all the evil to happen, but is not Himself the author of the evil. He chooses to sovereignly intervene, according to His perfect purposes, as is pleasing to His will. Is a person not saved, or a hurricane destroys a city? He could have changed the outcome, but He did not. It is not for us to know the beginning from the end, but to glorify Him in our election. For who are we to talk back to God? Who are we to say to the Potter that He has no right over the clay, and no right over the earth?

That orange part is refuted by Isaiah 45:7 And Psalm 139:1-9 isn't it? 
 

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