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The “sin lists” in the NT condemn all habitual sinners!


ZacharyB

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On 7/13/2016 at 6:48 AM, Snow said:

Bearing false witness....
Don't forget to confess this....

:thumbsup:

It Seems Some Fellows Can't Stand Smart Spirit-Filled Girls (?)

And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God,I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: Acts 2:17-18

So They Punt

By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. John 13:35

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Guest Robert
11 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

When you indict others by your stance, you indict yourself as well.  Because there is no way you are living a sinless life.  No one can.  You can't, I cant, no believer can.

1 John 1:8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.  (NIV)

Pretty clear cut.  In the above quote, when you accused another believer of something that you actually have no knowledge of, you bore false witness against her.  You violated one of God's laws.  You have violated that same law several times in this thread.  That means you are actually engaged in the very behavior you are accusing others of and preaching against because several times equates it being habitual.

We have no simpler definition of salvation than we do in Ephesians 2:8:

Ephesians 2:8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of GodNIV)

Grace through faith.  That's it.  Works do not bring us salvation in any way.  They are simply an outer manifestation of our new nature as a desire to both serve and glorify God, and serve others.  They do not buy us our salvation.

Jesus' death on the cross is a finished work.  It is complete.  It needs nothing from any one of us to somehow complete that process beyond being as faithful and obedient as we can.  Adding anything to it means that we believe that Jesus' death was insufficient to save us and we now need to add something to it to complete what He started.  That means that His substitutionary death was, in fact not required if we can perform works and save ourselves.  That removes Jesus completely from the process and makes us our own savior.  When you preach faith plus works, you preach another gospel, one that the entirety of the New testament clearly says to be false.  There is no place in the New Testament that says that works help us achieve our salvation.

The formula is simple:

Grace + Faith = Salvation.  

It's really that simple.  But people always want to gum up the formula and add a step to it because they can't grasp the simplicity of salvation.  It's too good to be true. Your formula reads like this:

Grace + Faith + Works = Salvation.

There are plenty of other permutations of the same 3 element formula.  Special prophet, church doctrine, observance of The Law, Sabbath keeping, etc.  The list is endless.  But once you add the third component as a requirement, you altered the original formula, your Gospel is flawed and you have rendered Jesus' death moot and of no effect.

Works have never been a requirement of salvation, but a product of it; James agrees with what Paul said, only exploring the other side of it. But any way we look at it, if we could be "good enough" to "keep the law" we would not have needed a savior to begin with.

Edited by RobertS
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On 07 July 2016 at 5:05 PM, ZacharyB said:

If the Christian believes in OSAS, he/she can easily fall into habitual sin,

which if not rectified, will lead to eternal death!

E.G. Paul warns of this 3 times in 8 verses (Romans 6:16-23).

... and also ...

If the Christian believes in the false pre-tribulation rapture doctrine:

-- he/she may fall away from the faith during the great tribulation!

-- he/she may submit to taking the mark of the beast!

The NT teaches that either one of these will cause the Christian to lose salvation!

 

In no place do the scriptures say salvation can be lost

It is all a contradiction in the very terms...eternal life, everlasting life versus probation

Salvation, saved as opposed to perhaps.

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On 13 July 2016 at 10:56 PM, Cobalt1959 said:

When you indict others by your stance, you indict yourself as well.  Because there is no way you are living a sinless life.  No one can.  You can't, I cant, no believer can.

1 John 1:8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.  (NIV)

Pretty clear cut.  In the above quote, when you accused another believer of something that you actually have no knowledge of, you bore false witness against her.  You violated one of God's laws.  You have violated that same law several times in this thread.  That means you are actually engaged in the very behavior you are accusing others of and preaching against because several times equates it being habitual.

We have no simpler definition of salvation than we do in Ephesians 2:8:

Ephesians 2:8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of GodNIV)

Grace through faith.  That's it.  Works do not bring us salvation in any way.  They are simply an outer manifestation of our new nature as a desire to both serve and glorify God, and serve others.  They do not buy us our salvation.

Jesus' death on the cross is a finished work.  It is complete.  It needs nothing from any one of us to somehow complete that process beyond being as faithful and obedient as we can.  Adding anything to it means that we believe that Jesus' death was insufficient to save us and we now need to add something to it to complete what He started.  That means that His substitutionary death was, in fact not required if we can perform works and save ourselves.  That removes Jesus completely from the process and makes us our own savior.  When you preach faith plus works, you preach another gospel, one that the entirety of the New testament clearly says to be false.  There is no place in the New Testament that says that works help us achieve our salvation.

The formula is simple:

Grace + Faith = Salvation.  

It's really that simple.  But people always want to gum up the formula and add a step to it because they can't grasp the simplicity of salvation.  It's too good to be true. Your formula reads like this:

Grace + Faith + Works = Salvation.

There are plenty of other permutations of the same 3 element formula.  Special prophet, church doctrine, observance of The Law, Sabbath keeping, etc.  The list is endless.  But once you add the third component as a requirement, you altered the original formula, your Gospel is flawed and you have rendered Jesus' death moot and of no effect.

On 14 July 2016 at 1:09 AM, RobertS said:

Works have never been a requirement of salvation, but a product of it; James agrees with what Paul said, only exploring the other side of it. But any way we look at it, if we could be "good enough" to "keep the law" we would not have needed a savior to begin with.

Totally

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On 11/3/2016 at 10:41 AM, Giller said:

Struggling in sin vs practicing sin...

There is clearly a problem when people (not you but those who keep on bringing up sin) are obsessed with discussing sin. Christians should be focused on righteousness and imputed righteousness. We can either keep rooting in the garbage bin, or simply dump the garbage and move on.

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On 7/6/2016 at 5:24 PM, ZacharyB said:

 

Throughout the Bible, God views sin as indicative of rebellion, disobedience, and unbelief.

Those born-again have been given a new nature by which they are no longer slaves of sin!

And they have been given the Holy Spirit, who has come to help them overcome their sins!

Compared to the OT, God’s born-again people have NO excuse for failure to be overcomers!

 

1 Corinthians 6:8-10, TLB

“But, instead, you yourselves are the ones who do wrong, cheating others, even your own brothers. Don’t you know that those doing such things have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who live immoral lives, who are idol worshipers, adulterers or homosexuals — will have no share in his Kingdom. Neither will thieves or greedy people, drunkards, slanderers, or robbers.”

• No habitual sinner will have any part in the Kingdom of God.

 

Galatians 5:18-24, TLB

“When you are guided by the Holy Spirit, you need no longer force yourself to obey Jewish laws. But when you follow your own wrong inclinations, your lives will produce these evil results: impure thoughts, eagerness for lustful pleasure, idolatry, spiritism, hatred and fighting, jealousy and anger, constant effort to get the best for yourself … and there will be wrong doctrine, envy, murder, drunkenness, wild parties, and all that sort of thing. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God. … Those who belong to Christ have nailed their natural evil desires to his cross and crucified them there.”

• No one who lives/walks in the flesh will inherit the Kingdom of God.

 

Ephesians 5:3-7, TLB

“Let there be no sex sin, impurity or greed among you. Let no one be able to accuse you of any such things. Dirty stories, foul talk, and coarse jokes — these are not for you. Instead, remind each other of God’s goodness, and be thankful. You can be sure of this: the Kingdom of Christ and of God will never belong to anyone who is impure or greedy, for a greedy person is really

an idol worshiper — he loves and worships the good things of this life more than God. Don’t be fooled by those who try to excuse these sins, for the terrible wrath of God is upon all those who do them. Don’t even associate with such people.”

• No Kingdom of God for them, and are those receiving God’s wrath going to heaven?

 

Colossians 3:5-8, TLB

“Away then with sinful, earthly things; deaden the evil desires lurking within you; have nothing to do with sexual sin, impurity, lust, and shameful desires; don’t worship the good things of life, for that is idolatry. God’s terrible anger is upon those who do such things. You used to do them when your life was still part of this world; but now is the time to cast off and throw away all these rotten garments of anger, hatred, cursing, and dirty language.”

3:6, NKJV – “Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience”

• Will anyone who receives God’s terrible anger and wrath be going to heaven?

 

Revelation 21:7-8, TLB

“Everyone who conquers (is victorious, overcomes) will inherit all these blessings, and I will be his God and he will be my son. But cowards who turn back from following me, and those who are unfaithful to me, and the corrupt, and murderers, and the immoral, and those conversing with demons, and idol worshipers and all liars — their doom is in the Lake that burns with fire and sulphur. This is the Second Death.”

• 8 examples of habitual sinners who will be thrown into the Lake of Fire.

 

Revelation 22:14-15, TLB

“Blessed forever are all who are washing their robes, to have the right to enter in through the gates of the city (the New Jerusalem) and to eat the fruit from the Tree of Life. Outside the city are those who have strayed away from God, and the sorcerers and the immoral and murderers and idolaters, and all who love to lie, and do so.”

22:14-15, NKJV – “Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves

and practices a lie.”

• 6 examples of habitual sinners who will not be allowed to enter the city of the New Jerusalem.

Underline: Everyone sins and will continue sinning, but not everyone believes in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Unbelief is the unpardonable sin. - Heb

Luke 16:27-31 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ 29“Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’ 30“ ‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ 31“He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’ ”

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On 7/6/2016 at 6:21 PM, ZacharyB said:

It's nice to have an opinion, but it's also deadly.

Why don't you just stick to discussing the Scriptures?

Suggestion: you could tackle them one at a time.

No pre-requisite required, such as being a football player.

Rick Parker is sticking to the scriptures. It is you that are not. What it appears you are trying to do is repeatedly push the doctrine of confession and the works based ideology promoted by your church. Which you're entitled to hold as truth.

 

However, when it conflicts with the gospel Jesus preached and died to deliver for all time, you're going to hear about it from Christians who are not members of your church. As you can see. And it is odd that you'd hope to proselytize your church here as if the Christian members of Worthy are not saved and thus are in need of your church.

  Maybe you should stick to the scriptures and find the truth of God in the teachings of Jesus Christ. 

On 7/6/2016 at 6:01 PM, Rick_Parker said:

Once again, we are saved by what we believe, not how we behave. If you believe that you have to perform works (stop sinning) in order to maintain your salvation, then you are believing a different gospel than the Gospel of Jesus Christ. You are also taking the responsibility for your own salvation.

AMEN! 

 

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On ‎7‎/‎6‎/‎2016 at 11:24 AM, ZacharyB said:

 

Throughout the Bible, God views sin as indicative of rebellion, disobedience, and unbelief.

Those born-again have been given a new nature by which they are no longer slaves of sin!

And they have been given the Holy Spirit, who has come to help them overcome their sins!

Compared to the OT, God’s born-again people have NO excuse for failure to be overcomers!

 

1 Corinthians 6:8-10, TLB

“But, instead, you yourselves are the ones who do wrong, cheating others, even your own brothers. Don’t you know that those doing such things have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who live immoral lives, who are idol worshipers, adulterers or homosexuals — will have no share in his Kingdom. Neither will thieves or greedy people, drunkards, slanderers, or robbers.”

• No habitual sinner will have any part in the Kingdom of God.

 

Galatians 5:18-24, TLB

“When you are guided by the Holy Spirit, you need no longer force yourself to obey Jewish laws. But when you follow your own wrong inclinations, your lives will produce these evil results: impure thoughts, eagerness for lustful pleasure, idolatry, spiritism, hatred and fighting, jealousy and anger, constant effort to get the best for yourself … and there will be wrong doctrine, envy, murder, drunkenness, wild parties, and all that sort of thing. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God. … Those who belong to Christ have nailed their natural evil desires to his cross and crucified them there.”

• No one who lives/walks in the flesh will inherit the Kingdom of God.

 

Ephesians 5:3-7, TLB

“Let there be no sex sin, impurity or greed among you. Let no one be able to accuse you of any such things. Dirty stories, foul talk, and coarse jokes — these are not for you. Instead, remind each other of God’s goodness, and be thankful. You can be sure of this: the Kingdom of Christ and of God will never belong to anyone who is impure or greedy, for a greedy person is really

an idol worshiper — he loves and worships the good things of this life more than God. Don’t be fooled by those who try to excuse these sins, for the terrible wrath of God is upon all those who do them. Don’t even associate with such people.”

• No Kingdom of God for them, and are those receiving God’s wrath going to heaven?

 

Colossians 3:5-8, TLB

“Away then with sinful, earthly things; deaden the evil desires lurking within you; have nothing to do with sexual sin, impurity, lust, and shameful desires; don’t worship the good things of life, for that is idolatry. God’s terrible anger is upon those who do such things. You used to do them when your life was still part of this world; but now is the time to cast off and throw away all these rotten garments of anger, hatred, cursing, and dirty language.”

3:6, NKJV – “Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience”

• Will anyone who receives God’s terrible anger and wrath be going to heaven?

 

Revelation 21:7-8, TLB

“Everyone who conquers (is victorious, overcomes) will inherit all these blessings, and I will be his God and he will be my son. But cowards who turn back from following me, and those who are unfaithful to me, and the corrupt, and murderers, and the immoral, and those conversing with demons, and idol worshipers and all liars — their doom is in the Lake that burns with fire and sulphur. This is the Second Death.”

• 8 examples of habitual sinners who will be thrown into the Lake of Fire.

 

Revelation 22:14-15, TLB

“Blessed forever are all who are washing their robes, to have the right to enter in through the gates of the city (the New Jerusalem) and to eat the fruit from the Tree of Life. Outside the city are those who have strayed away from God, and the sorcerers and the immoral and murderers and idolaters, and all who love to lie, and do so.”

22:14-15, NKJV – “Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves

and practices a lie.”

• 6 examples of habitual sinners who will not be allowed to enter the city of the New Jerusalem.

Also we have to keep in mind that once born again, the sins do not disappear overnight.  having them disappear as such could be very dangerous since 7 more evil spirits might be able to enter in.  It isn't so much an overnight thing and even after becoming born again by water and Spirit, we will still undoubtedly sin from time to time.  We slowly leave our old life of sin, being renewed daily, and heading towards Sanctification since we have already been consecrated.  Christ and being a follower is not about 'not sinning', it's about walking towards Sanctification, per se.  All this talk about 'sin' and 'sin' and 'sin' is not edifying for any Christian.  We need to be edifying and helping each other grow in the knowledge and fullness of Christ Jesus.  We shouldn't be bringing each other down by 'topics' of -sin,sin, sin- all day and all night.  We need to also move onward and upward in Life and not remain stagnant. We are walking towards sanctification while doing our daily things on earth and still helping one another out by 'lifting them upward' to better and more noble things in God.  We don't want to remain low with each other, we want to get onto the better things in God's World and in God's Life. As far as the notion that this world belongs to 'the god of this world' does not mean that 'the god of this world' is really 'god of this world'.  It just means that 'the god of this world' and the world  with its' lies and murders and cheatings and rapings, etc' have kept us in blindness to the Truth that this world is evil and adulterous.  If a person can't even admit to the the fact that innocent lives are murdered and hurt every day and can't even admit that we live in evil and adulterous times, then we definitely are not seeing anything, we are blinded.  And we would be as children of the 'god of this world'.

Edited by delade3
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Do you really believe that sin is indicative to 

Throughout the Bible, God views sin as indicative of rebellion, disobedience, and unbelief.

Have you ever thought of sin as being part of life and no way of escaping it? 

Edited by delade3
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