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An Open Letter to Christians: You’re Hurting Gay People and That Ain’t Right


gerbilwoman

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An Open Letter to Christians: You’re Hurting Gay People and That Ain’t Right

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/an-open-letter-to-christi_b_5011351

Finally, something that actually quotes Bible verses that is pro-gay.  I mean really, would God want people stoned to death?

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51 minutes ago, gerbilgirl said:

An Open Letter to Christians: You’re Hurting Gay People and That Ain’t Right

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/an-open-letter-to-christi_b_5011351

Finally, something that actually quotes Bible verses that is pro-gay.  I mean really, would God want people stoned to death?

:emot-heartbeat:

Dedicated To The Memory 

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8

Of God's Justice

The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:35-36

And Mercy

When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. John 8:10-11

In memory of Milt Ford (1941-2014), pioneer for LGBTQ justice. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/an-open-letter-to-christi_b_5011351

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Sorry, I don't see how we, as American Christians, are responsible for what goes on in the governments in Africa.  Btw, the Huffington Post is all pro gay, all the time.  God does not accept homosexuality.  Ever.

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There is nothing in Scripture that is pro-homosexual. In fact, GOD calls it an abomination in the OT and in the NT, Christ said he came to fulfill the Law, not abolish it. So, homosexuality is still a sin and those who come on this forum and advocate otherwise should be advised that they are wrong and should study Scripture thoroughly to find themselves approved.

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Guest shiloh357
57 minutes ago, gerbilgirl said:

An Open Letter to Christians: You’re Hurting Gay People and That Ain’t Right

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/an-open-letter-to-christi_b_5011351

Finally, something that actually quotes Bible verses that is pro-gay.  I mean really, would God want people stoned to death?

Let's deal with this author's comments, then.

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From Arizona and Kansas to Uganda and Nigeria, U.S. evangelicals are exporting a gospel of hate that incites discrimination, suffering, incarceration and violence against gays.

So the author automatically assigns hate as a value to evangelicals claiming that they are the reason that gays suffer all kinds of horrible things in Nigeria and Uganda.  Yet, the article he cites really doesn't support that claim.  The article claims that the Christians in Uganda and Nigeria support anti-homosexual legislation, but does not go so far as to say that Christians leaders endorse any act of violence or hatred toward homosexuals.  

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Whenever the Church has been too closely allied with power (the State), it hurts people (Muslims and Jews, for example, in the Crusades, and Protestants or Catholics in the Reformation, and American slaves, to name a few).

Neither slavery nor the crusades had anything to do with true Christianity.  Slavery is still a practice in many cultures today, but only used as a pretext to condemn Christianity.  The Crusader knights were not Christians; most of them were murderers and convicts who were promised freedom if they joined the crusader army.  None of them were actual believers in Jesus.    The Protestant reformation had nothing to do with the state.  I cannot defend what was done by some people but what the author fails to understand, or maybe conveniently ignores is that there were a lot of atrocities done "in the name of Jesus"  that had nothing to do with Christianity.   Christianity is just a convenient scapegoat.    Muslims still have slaves, but Muslims will kill you if you criticize them and Christians won't, so people like him play it safe and only condemn the people who don't blow everyone up for the smallest criticism or perceived insult.

 

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Instead of trying to create a Christian State, follow Jesus’ lead and focus on the state of your own soul: “The Kingdom of God is within.”

Rather than focusing on the speck in your gay brother’s eye, first take the plank out of your own eye (Luke 6:42; and don’t used said plank to beat your brother). It is spiritually unhealthy, pride by another name, to focus on the sins of another. That can only mean that you are either (a) perfect or (b) ignoring your own sins. I suspect (b).

 

First of all, no one is trying to create a "Christian state."   The author then butchers the words of Jesus by applying them in a way they were not intended to be applied.  He is misquoting Jesus intentionally and assigning a value to Jesus words in a way that really misses the point  Jesus was making.

First of all, let's clean up the text the author is using to see what Jesus was actually saying:   "

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye,  Matt. 7:3-5

Jesus is not saying we can't point out the sins of others.  But he is criticizing the way we justify or rationalize away our own faults.   The point Jesus is making is make sure you are not guilty of the same thing you are criticizing in someone else.  That's why Jesus uses the word, "hypocrite."   A hypocrite is someone who justifies or rationalizes in themselves what they condemn in other people.   For example, if a person is committing adultery, what right does that person have to criticize someone who is having sex outside of marriage?  Both are violating God's laws on sexual purity.   A person who visits prostitutes has no ground to condemn homosexuality.

What Jesus is condemning in Matthew 7 is hypocritical judgment.  He is NOT saying that we cannot speak out against sin.   We simply need to make sure that we are not wallowing in the same pig sty of guilt.

 

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WWJD in Uganda and Nigeria?

Rather than encouraging stone-throwing or whipping or imprisonment, Jesus would walk up to the victim, put his arms around him, look around at the mob and say, “Let he that is without sin cast the first stone” (John 8:7).

 

That's the usual canard that is thrown in our face.   And it only demonstrates that people like this author are misusing the Bible.   When Jesus used the word "sin" in John 8:7, the Greek word means, "sin of the same kind."    Some people misuse this verse to mean, "if you never sinned before in your life, cast the first stone."    Jesus was not saying that.   Jesus knew their hearts that they had committed adultery and they knew it as well.  

If the standard were, you cannot criticize a sin if you have ever committed a sin, then parents could not criticize their children's drug use.   No one could criticize drunk driving or spousal abuse or child molestation if the standard erected is that you cannot criticize someone's sin if you have ever committed a sin in your life.

 

 

 

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Here are some questions we might ask about job one for Christians:

 

Where is the Church’s condemnation of pride, greed, judgmentalism, and gossip?

 

Maybe the author should attend evangelical churches more often. 

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Why not fight for laws that require everyone to care for the poor, the orphaned, and the widowed?

When we get involved in government matters like that, we are told that we violate separation of Church and State.   But if don't take on that stuff, suddenly we are painted as if we don't care about the orphaned and widowed.  The author might want to look at all of the stuff churches do worldwide for orphaned children and single mothers and the para church organizations that exist to help all kinds of people in dire need that get no recognition from the liberals in our country.

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Instead of legislation against the so-called homosexual agenda, why not seek legislation against corporate exploitation in Africa?

Why is that "job one" for the Church??

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Why not require US corporations to pay a fair wage, create humane working conditions, and care for the environment?

Again, why is that "job one" for the Church??

 

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1 hour ago, MorningGlory said:

Btw, the Huffington Post is all pro gay, all the time. 

Yes, Huff Post is dedicated to liberalism and lies. This articles says: "How did we get to the point where Christian leaders think that homosexuality is, as Lou Engle alleges, THE issue of the day?"

It is Barack Obama who as made LGBT THE issue of the day, particularly with his bathroom nonsense.  Homosexuality is clearly condemned in the Bible, but the gay agenda is more than simply practising their perversion privately.  They would like to see all children corrupted. They would like to see all governments raising their rainbow banner, instead of recognizing that this attack on normal sexuality and proper marriage.

And since they added "Q" at the end, looks like it is OK to use the term "queer".

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10 hours ago, MorningGlory said:

Sorry, I don't see how we, as American Christians, are responsible for what goes on in the governments in Africa.  Btw, the Huffington Post is all pro gay, all the time.  God does not accept homosexuality.  Ever.

The Huffington Post is a very and I mean very liberal new paper.  I see them supporting anything that increase circulation.  We are believers in Jesus, we are to walk by His teachings.  I hate the gay lifestyle but I love the people as God does.  But we cannot sell out to the world.  Remember we are in the world not of it.

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Guest Robert

A lot of folks here have given excellent points; the Huffington Post openly supports liberalism and is very pro-gay. Of course they are going to promulgate an article that slants the discussion.

 

But what is more: this seems to have become an issue of "if God is love and He loves the world, then He loves gay people and would accept them. And if you love God, you have to accept them as well!"


Slight problem here:

 

God cannot accept ANYONE who has not repented of their sin and accepted Jesus Christ; that means that if you steal, you turn from stealing; if you lie, you turn from lying, if you lust, you turn from lusting, and so on. Since we cannot do so of ourselves, that's where the Lord comes in, but we do commit ourselves to no longer committing that sin. What is being said in the OP though is that by rejecting "gay people", we are "hurting them" and therefore, the church is wrong for that. What is not being taken into account here is that Jesus is the only way to God, and Jesus was clear on what needed to be done:

" Now on the same occasion there were some present who reported to Him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. And Jesus said to them, “Do you suppose that these Galileans were greater sinners than all other Galileans because they suffered this fate? I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. Or do you suppose that those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them were worse culprits than all the men who live in Jerusalem? I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish." (Luke 13:1-5, NASB, emphasis mine)

It doesn't matter if the sin is homosexuality, theft, what have you; if you're not willing to turn from your former ways, then you're not willing to follow the Lord. And if that is the case, then you've shut out the ONLY way to God. This is true of any sin, regardless of the type of sin. To simply "accept" people who are not willing to turn from what scripture has clearly called a sin and "an abomination" is to no longer obey the Lord and to be separate from this world. Once you start allowing that, where does it end?

This doesn't mean we do not help people, nor does it mean we stop preaching the gospel to them. But if we are going to obey the commands of God in scripture, a line of what is right and wrong HAS to be drawn and stood upon. Too often, we confuse "love" with "approval": if someone loves us, they MUST "approve" of what we do. Or "understanding" with "condoning": if we understand why someone does something, we then condone what they do and will not speak against it.

 

NEITHER of those things are scriptural.

 

God loved us to the point where although He would not approve or condone of our transgressions against Him, He would die in our place to pay for them. God never once rescinded His opinion on sin and wickedness, nor has He ever backed down or "softened" His stance on right and wrong. This doesn't mean He doesn't love us, but true love works towards the best possible benefit of the person loved. It doesn't approve of things that are known to be detrimental, wicked or just plain wrong. And everywhere that homosexuality has been welcomed, compromise and violation of boundaries soon follows; this is why the church must stand it's ground on this. And if someone is going to be offended for the church refusing to back down on the issue of homosexuality, then they probably are not taking the Lord's word seriously to begin with. God's been clear on His opinion of it from the beginning; it's time we took Him seriously.

To put it another way: if we disagree on what Christianity says to be right and wrong, then why do we want to be a Christian?

Edited by RobertS
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Gerbil girl, I realize that you are relatively young.  You probably have not studied the Bible for very long, but you have had a lot of teachers tell you things that are not necessarily true. Who are you going to believe--God or the teachers who are being forced to teach you these things by the government?  Are you going to accuse God of being unjust?  That is a dangerous thing to do, even when done out of ignorance.  God, our Creator, judges us.  Not the other way around.  

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Jesus said if you love me. You will obey me. So it's a matter of obedience. God says no to homosexuality.  

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