Israel's Salvation

[Retrobyter]

On July 22, 2016 at 9:09 AM, Riccardo said:

Read my comment again Shiloh357 

I said spiritual Jew, read Romans 2:28 

Shalom, Riccardo.

I find it interesting how conveniently one will interpret Romans 2:28 a particular way and never make the connection with 3:1ff:

Romans 2:28-3:2
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
KJV

Remember: Chapter and verse divisions are NOT inspired!

[precepts]

On 7/22/2016 at 8:52 AM, shiloh357 said:

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There is no such thing as a "spiritual Israel."  That is not biblical at all.   Israel and the Church are radically separate in the NT.   "Israel" is used 71 times in the NT and in every case it only ever refers to the physical descendants of Jacob, never the Church.  "Spiritual Israel"  is a myth.

Reading Comprehension, the definition alone of "remnant" proves you wrong because It doesn't mean some of a whole but  what's left or what remains of the whole,  which were the Jews who accepted the NT.

All of Israel was  saved because that was all that was left. The "remnant" was all. There is no Israel outside of the "remnant" saved.

Read the entire chapter and you will see that Paul called the "remnant" saved the "Election" and that was the day they were saved, when the Deliver/Christ brought forgiveness to Jacob/Israel thru the new covenant.

 

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"All Israel"  doesn't mean every single person.  It is simply stating that Israel, as a whole, as a nation/people will one day be delivered.  

No, it's referring to the "remnant" saved, all that were saved by accepting the new covenant, the "remnant" saved instead of Israel becoming like Sodom and Gomorrah.

 

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Christians have a one dimensional idea about how salvation is used in the Bible.   We tend to think that the only context in which that word appears is spiritual salvation from sin through the finished work of the cross.  That is only one way the Bible uses the term.    In Romans 11 Paul has in mind the full and final deliverance of Israel/Jacob and the final expected restoration of Israel as promised by the prophets. Paul draws on that by quoting one of the OT prophets relative to the physical and spiritual restoration of Israel, which will culminate in the millennial Kingdom Jesus will establish.

I don't understand how an educated world can't read and comprehend. Paul was verifying Isa--h's prophecy of a remnant saved or Israel becoming like Sodom and Gomorrah. There is no nation of Israel outside the remnant that was left/saved.

 

Edited August 5, 2016 by precepts

[Guest shiloh357]

 

On ‎7‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 8:09 AM, Riccardo said:

Read my comment again Shiloh357 

I said spiritual Jew, read Romans 2:28 

There is no such thing as a spiritual Jew.   Gentile believers are NEVER referred to as Jews in the NT.  The term "Jew" is never spiritualized to refer to Gentile Christians.  Paul is talking about what makes a Jew, truly Jewish, namely that their lives are a praise to God.  "Praise"  is a play on the words with the word "Jehudah" from which we get the word, "Jew."

[Guest shiloh357]

1 hour ago, inchrist said:

I beg to differ,

The word “Hebrew” means “from beyond” , it also comes from another root word “eber” which means “to cross over the Jordan River.”

In other words, “Hebrew” means to make a transition from being a Babylonian (just like Abraham was) to being “set-apart” from the world and all forms of paganism. ( and you don’t see Gentile Christians here?).

I know all of that.  I was talking about the word "Jew"  not the word "Hebrew."   "Jew" comes from Judah which means praise.
 

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Jacob was the first “Israelite”, he was the first one to be given this name. The word “Israel” literally means “Elohiym prevails.”

Jacob”s fourth son to Leah as you know was named “Judah”. So the first Jew was Judah. But in eternity, the Tribe of Judah is the Tribe of our Father and the Messiah who is of the priestly order of Melchizedek, this priestly order which comes out of the tribe of Judah. ( You don’t see the Christian church belonging to the order of Melchizedek?)

As you can see scripture does teach you become a Hebrew when you come out of Babylonian paganism like Abraham did. Then you become an Israelite when you learn to prevail over the enemy by conquering the sinful nature, just like Jacob. And finally you become a Jew when you sojourn with the Messiah whose tribe is Judah

 

Yeah, that's some pretty fancy theological gymnastics and twisting and contorting of Scripture to arrive at the destination you want to arrive at.   The Bible NEVER spiritualizes "Jew"  to refer to Gentile believers and it NEVER refers to Gentile believers as "Hebrews" either.  

Because I am a child of God, I will stick with Holy Scripture and what it says and reject this false teaching.

[Guest shiloh357]

13 minutes ago, inchrist said:

You can reject whatever you want, what you see with your eyes and what God sees with His eyes are two different subject matters

And I see what God sees and I believe His word.

[Guest shiloh357]

Just now, inchrist said:

That's very interesting, because Jerusalem can be compared to Sodom and Egypt spiritually and we also have another example of God calls for people to come out of spiritual Babylon, in fact dont pre tribs like yourself compare Rome with spiritual Babylon? Are not christians to come out of spiritual babylon? 

So you can compare everything else spiritually but just not with hebrew and particularly with a certain tribe called Judah which so happens to have our messiah come out of, which just so happens to have established the priestly order of Melchizedek?

Like I said, I will stick with God's word, not the theological gymnastics you propose.

[precepts]

I guess no one's interested in the fact "remnant" means "a remainder" or "what's left of something," that the "remnant" saved was "all Israel saved" because that was all that was left of Israel,, so there is no Israel outside of the new testament and the new covenant.

Edited August 9, 2016 by precepts

[precepts]

16 minutes ago, Yowm said:

I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. 
(Rom 11:1-2a)
 

 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 
(Rom 11:25)
 

Read on! Because the "remnant" saved, the "election," are the only ones saved, the only ones left, the only ones that remain, which is the definition of "remnant."

Edited August 19, 2016 by precepts

[Defending the Name]

Israel as a race under Christ and not as a political nation will be saved, in the same way all races under Christ have been saved by the precious blood of Christ. 

This means what it means that all who want to come to the Father need to carry their crosses and not their political flags.  

 

I believe when Jesus said the first shall be last and last shall be first, is alluding to Israel as a race of people, who were supposed to be the first workmen in God's vineyard, finally come as the final workmen on the 11th hour before the bridegrooms glorious entry. 

 

Israel as a race must say blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord and they must join the ranks of the Great Commission to preach the gospel to their own race and as the 11th hour workmen, before the bridegroom comes to his sheep. 

 

There is no salvation for any race who do not commit to the Great Commission. 

 

Edited August 20, 2016 by Defending the Name

[Defending the Name]

On 20/08/2016 at 7:48 AM, precepts said:

Read on! Because the "remnant" saved, the "election," are the only ones saved, the only ones left, the only ones that remain, which is the definition of "remnant."

 

That is right only a remnant is saved. Those countless disbelieving Jews who lived and died from the 1st century at the time of Christ until their restoration as the 11th hour workmen have all been lost.  

 

The remnant scripture speaks of are those who come in as the 11th hour workmen before the bridegroom makes his glorious entry.