Guest shiloh357 Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 On 7/14/2016 at 2:51 PM, Azizrasul said: Why does the word 'begotten' not appear in the four gospels in the original Greek? The word "mongenes" in Greek means only born/begotten in John 3:16. It doesn't simply mean, "only." You have one word that is really two words in English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azizrasul Posted March 9, 2017 Group: Seeker Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/14/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 9, 2017 (edited) shiloh357, according to wikipedia It is claimed that Arian arguments that used texts that refer to Christ as God's "only begotten Son" are based on a misunderstanding of the Greek word monogenēs and that the Greek word does not mean "begotten" in the sense we beget children but means "having no peer, unique". OneLight, there are other English translations that also do not contain the word 'begotten'. I can cite them if you like. If Jesus (peace be upon him) tells us to accept the ONE God, why are Christians going on a path that is contrary to this? It's also worrying when English translations differ in the frequency of the word 'begotten' which is so central to the Christian faith. Edited March 9, 2017 by Azizrasul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No124get1952 Posted March 9, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 159 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 184 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/31/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/17/1952 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Azizrasul, I defer to the Greek scholars here concerning the transliteration. In the big picture, there are not always direct translations between the original Greek and Hebrew texts. Having gone to Bible Gateway and searched in the RSV, you are correct, the word "begotten" does not appear in any of the 4 gospels. However, it DOES appear in the King James and the Amplified translations. From this, I deduce that the appearance of the word "begotten" is more dependent upon what translation you read than on any intentional error or mistranslation At this point, let me speak a bit about the King James Translation. While I am not a KJV only believer, as some are, I do know the history of that translation and for nearly 400 years it was the "best" translation available. When the English King James commissioned this translation, he gave directions that he wanted the best and most accurate translation possible. It took 47 Bible scholars a total of 7 years to develop the translation. The New Testament was translated from the original Greek and the Old Testament was translated from Hebrew and Aramaic. Any disagreements concerning translation went through an exhaustive review and rebuttal process that included translation issues but also context and Bible eschatology considerations based upon their understanding of Christian doctrines at the time. This process was so exhaustive that when we consider the quality of the results, there are very few places (this being one of them) where there is any disagreement at all. To consider that in 1600, Church of England scholars spent 7 years working on this translation of 66 books plus the Apocrypha, to come up with so few errors is purely miraculous and speaks to divine favor on the result. As others have said, most of us agree with the idea that Jesus was the Only Son of God. The fact that He was born of a woman, means that, in layman's terms, he was begotten. What we need to focus on is the fact that, along with the resurrection, the virgin birth is one of the most legally provable events in all of recorded history. That should cause our faith to leap and should cause us to rejoice that God has given His best for us!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azizrasul Posted March 9, 2017 Group: Seeker Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/14/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 9, 2017 I defer to the Greek scholars here concerning the transliteration. I’m sure that the Christian scholars who wrote the NRSV were and are equally competent as are the scholars of other translations that also emit the word ‘begotten’. Also added with the fact that neither Zakariya, John, Jesus and Mary (peace be upon them) claimed this AND that Jesus (peace be upon him) said that the greatest commandment was to accept the ONE God all lead to the inevitable conclusion that the NRSV writers got it right. At this point, let me speak a bit about the King James Translation. While I am not a KJV only believer, as some are, I do know the history of that translation and for nearly 400 years it was the "best" translation available. When the English King James commissioned this translation, he gave directions that he wanted the best and most accurate translation possible. It took 47 Bible scholars a total of 7 years to develop the translation. The New Testament was translated from the original Greek and the Old Testament was translated from Hebrew and Aramaic. Any disagreements concerning translation went through an exhaustive review and rebuttal process that included translation issues but also context and Bible eschatology considerations based upon their understanding of Christian doctrines at the time. This process was so exhaustive that when we consider the quality of the results, there are very few places (this being one of them) where there is any disagreement at all. To consider that in 1600, Church of England scholars spent 7 years working on this translation of 66 books plus the Apocrypha, to come up with so few errors is purely miraculous and speaks to divine favor on the result. The fact that the King may have given directions that he wanted the best and most accurate translation possible clearly shows it didn’t work as the 47 scholars may have had a mind-set that led them in the direction they went which was subsequently removed. Taking 7 years again would not have made a difference and is irrelevant. The fact it was exhaustive has clearly not been exhaustive enough. Few there may have been, but the issue is central to Christianity and not a minor issue. It goes to the heart of Christian belief. As others have said, most of us agree with the idea that Jesus was the Only Son of God. The fact that He was born of a woman, means that, in layman's terms, he was begotten. What we need to focus on is the fact that, along with the resurrection, the virgin birth is one of the most legally provable events in all of recorded history. That should cause our faith to leap and should cause us to rejoice that God has given His best for us!!!!! Most of us? Then you shall say to Pharaoh, ‘Thus says the Lord: Israel is my firstborn son. Exodus 4:22 He shall build a house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. I will be a father to him, and he shall be a son to me. When he commits iniquity, I will punish him with a rod such as mortals use, with blows inflicted by human beings. 2 Samuel 7:13-14 With weeping they shall come, and with consolations I will lead them back, I will let them walk by brooks of water, in a straight path in which they shall not stumble; for I have become a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn. Jeremiah 31:9 son of Enos, son of Seth, son of Adam, son of God. Luke 3:38 You are children of the Lord your God. You must not lacerate yourselves or shave your forelocks for the dead. Deuteronomy 14:1 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God. Romans 8:14 See also John 1:12, Philippians 2:15, 1 John 3:1-2, Job 38:7, Job 2:1, Job 1:6, Genesis 6:4 and Genesis 6:2. If being born of a woman means as you say in layman’s terms, what does that make Adam (peace be upon him) in layman’s terms? I do not doubt the virgin birth, but this does not make Jesus (peace be upon him) according to the 4 man-made gospels the ‘begotten son of God. We should rejoice that the ONE God exists and has always existed and will always exist. As I have already said that the fact that neither Zakariya, John, Jesus and Mary (peace be upon them) claimed the ‘begottenship’ AND that Jesus (peace be upon him) said that the greatest commandment was to accept the ONE God all lead to the inevitable conclusion that the NRSV writers got it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FresnoJoe Posted March 10, 2017 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 207 Topic Count: 60 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,651 Content Per Day: 1.17 Reputation: 5,761 Days Won: 4 Joined: 01/31/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/04/1943 Share Posted March 10, 2017 8 hours ago, Azizrasul said: I do not doubt the virgin birth.... but this does not make Jesus (peace be upon him).... according to the 4 man-made gospels the ‘begotten son of God.... We should rejoice.... that the ONE God exists.... and has always existed and will always exist..... Why Blaspheme “I will surely tell of the decree of the LORD: He said to Me, ‘You are My Son, Today I have begotten You. Psalms 2:7 (New American Standard Bible) allah took Jesus to heaven where he awaits until the day of judgment when he will return to earth (3,55). http://www.islam-101.org/ The Holy Word Of Allah And there came a voice from heaven: This is My beloved Son. I take delight in Him! Matthew 3:17 (Holman Christian Standard Bible) Muslim traditions teach that Muhammad died not knowing if he would be judged worthy to enter Paradise - where God has already placed Jesus. http://www.islam-101.org/ And Why Blaspheme The LORD Jesus Then a voice came from heaven: "You are my Son, whom I love. I am pleased with you!" Mark 1:11 (International Standard Version) Muhammad is Dead and buried in Saudi Arabia. Jesus is alive both with God in heaven (paradise) and in Spirit with his followers on Earth. (Koran 3,55;4,158,159) http://www.islam-101.org/ The Only Begotten Son Of The Heavenly Father and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven, "You are my one dear Son; in you I take great delight." Luke 3:22 (NET Bible) This is the great difference between Jesus and Muhammad according to the Quran/Koran. Jesus is alive in Heaven with God and Muhammad is dead and buried. IN MEDINA, SAUDI ARABIA, STILL AWAITING GOD'S JUDGMENT. http://www.islam-101.org/ Are You A Follower Of The Prophet Of Submission, Muhammad Of Mecca For to us a child is born, to us a son is given: and the government shall be on his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6 (American King James Version) Jesus, Messiah and son of Mary, crucified, appeared dead and was taken up my Allah himself (4: 157,158; 3: 55*). He did not "appear to be alive" because he was dead. Crucifixion was the Roman method of execution similar to hanging. No one survived being crucified. http://www.islam-101.org/ The Power This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. Matthew 26:28 (New International Version) Of His Holy Holy Blood For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve others and to give his life as a ransom for many." Matthew 20:28 ( New Living Translation The Only Hope For All Sinner Men And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood. Luke 22:20 (English Standard Version) Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING The LORD bless thee, and keep thee: The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee: The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace. And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27 (King James Bible) Love, Your Brother Joe ~ Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalms 119:160 (King James Bible) The Bible contains the mind of God, the state of man, the way of salvation, the doom of sinners, and the happiness of believers. Its doctrines are holy, its precepts are binding, its histories are true, and its decisions are immutable. Read it to be wise, believe it to be safe, and practice it to be holy. It contains light to direct you, food to support you, and comfort to cheer you. It is the traveler’s map, the pilgrim’s staff, the pilot’s compass, the soldier’s sword and the Christian’s charter. Here too, Heaven is opened and the gates of Hell disclosed. Christ is its grand subject, our good its design, and the glory of God its end. It should fill the memory, rule the heart and guide the feet. Read it slowly, frequently and prayerfully. It is a mine of wealth, a paradise of glory, and a river of pleasure. It is given you in life, will be opened at the judgment, and be remembered forever. It involves the highest responsibility, rewards the greatest labor, and will condemn all who trifle with its sacred contents. From The Inside Of My Gideon New Testament Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinitin Posted March 12, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,366 Content Per Day: 0.78 Reputation: 2,150 Days Won: 9 Joined: 01/10/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted March 12, 2017 On 7/14/2016 at 2:51 PM, Azizrasul said: Why does the word 'begotten' not appear in the four gospels in the original Greek? "monogeneis" it is in john? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted March 12, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,136 Content Per Day: 4.63 Reputation: 27,816 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted March 12, 2017 Blessings Reinitin Quote "monogeneis" it is in john? That is correct,it is the title used by John and can be found also,one more time in the Book of Hebrews With love-in Christ,Kwik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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