Anointing,Indwelling,Authority,Power-What is the Difference?

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Brothers & Sisters

        Brother HAZARD & I recently participated in a Topic about "suicide",the discussion took it's turn and became another Topic about whether ot not Judas Iscariot was a Saved man and from there is became yet another Topic......was he a man indwelled with the Holy Spirit ? Finally ,after realizing we completely de=railed the Thread we decided to begin a new Thread to reason together

         I hold the position that the Old Testament Prophets as well as the 12 Disciples were not Indwelled,not yet.....not until the Day of Pentecost......Jesus had not ascended into Heaven & therefore His Spirit was not given,Jesus never lived "in a person" until after His Finished Work on the Cross,,,,,,,,granted,His Spirit,Gods Holy Spirit,the Holy Spirit could come "upon" man,an anointing giving them "access" to His Power but not "indwelled"

         We concluded with 2 different thoughts  on these Scriptures....

Mark 3: 14, And he ordained twelve,, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach,
    15, And to have power to heal sickness, and to cast out devils:
    16, And Simon he surnamed Peter;
    17, And James the son of Zebedee, and John the brother of James; and he surnamed them Boanerges, which is, The sons of thunder:
    18, And Andrew, and Philip, and Bartholomew, and Matthew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus, and Simon the Canaanite,
    19, And Judas Iscariot, which also betrayed him: and they went into an house.

Mark 6:   7, And he called unto him the twelve and began to send them forth by two, and two, and gave them power over unclean spirits:
    8, And commanded them that they should take nothing for their journey, save a staff only; no scrip, no bread, no money in their purse:
    9, But be shod with sandals; and not put on two coats.

Mark 6:  12, And they went out, and preached that men should repent.
    13, And they cast out many devils, and anointed with oil many that were sick and healed them.

My comment was:

Quote

 

 I must say,I don't follow what you are trying to refer to by posting the verses of Scripture that you chose to speak of the 12 & the Power of God that worked through them to do the Miracles,Works & Wonders,,,,,in my view,these Scriptures do not refute what I have said,they were not indwelled by the Holy Spirit,,,,,the had access to His Power because they were given the AUTHORITY,,,,,,                                                      With love-in Christ,Kwik

I just realized how way off Topic we are,how about we start a THread on the Topic & not continue to de-rail this one?    I;'m signing off for now,be back in the a.m.    Have a beautiful evening in the Lord!

Brother HAZARD has a different take than I do,he will tell you his & please fell free to join in & let us all "reason together" & ask that the Holy Spirit Coun cil us......Have a God Filled Day                                                                                                                                              posted by kwikphilly

 

Anointing,Indwelling,Authority,the Power,,,,,,what is the difference?Where does it come from?       Let us remain loving, kind & respectful,it is not a debate......

                                                                                       Give God ALL the Glory!

[enoob57]

We are in the infinite of our Lord and because of sin we
have made ourselves god... In the cleanness of New Life
and Spiritual indwelling we are able to renew thoughts
back to truth...
The point of Adams and Eve's fall God set forth to re-
deem them and their children's children... so then the OT
is an example of that to us all! As they were not made
able by the blood of animals to be born again they were
able to show forth the inability of redeeming themselves
by repentance and obedience to God throughout that
whole time of OT. The Spirit of God came upon them as
anointing but not indwelling them for there was no holy
place for... (perhaps pictured in the release of the dove
from the ark)
It wasn't till Christ ascended into the heaven to seat of
authority upon the right hand of God did the Father
send The Holy Spirit into man and make and eternal
abode with .... NT. As far as the rest it is with context
individually used within the Scripture...
Love, Steven
 

 

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Brother...

     As you know,I agree,Amen.....well said      God of course is ABLE to do ALL things but He does do things His Way,for His Purpose & the Plans He has for us......we also know that His Ways are not our ways,He is Above,He is Higher than we are......we do come to an Understanding that He also does not Change,He is the Same,yesterday,today & forevermore.....so we can see that He uses different people in different ways,He can take ordinary people & do Extraordinary Marvelous Things through them......as with Abraham,Moses,Joshua,David,Elijah,Samson,Oh & many many more ......He anoints them ,His Spirit was upon on them,not in them

    We discussed Judas Iscariot,was Judas a Saved man that transgressed & fell into temptation & delivered unto evil? I don't know if Judas was ever Saved or if he was not before he was overtaken by satan.....but I do know that Saved or not,not he or any of the 12 nor the Prophets of Old had the Indwelling,you need not be Indwelled for God to anoint you with His Power to perform Works,Wonders or Miracles.............. Jesus did not live IN anyone until He died,rose & sent His Spirit on the Day of Pentecost                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    With love-in Christ,Kwik

[HAZARD]

Old Testament King.

The Holy Spirit came down upon King Saul.

1 Sam. 10:9-10;

 V. 9, And it was so, that when he had turned his back to go from Samuel, God gave him another heart: and all those signs came to pass that day.
   

V. 10, And when they came thither to the hill, behold, a company of prophets met him; and the Spirit of God came upon him, and he prophesied among them.

It is also recorded how the Holy Spirit left him when he sinned (1 Sam. 16:12-13). He went into spiritualism and God said He would cut off the man who did this (Lev. 19:31; 20:6; Deut. 18:11).

King Saul had the Holy Spirit, he had life, for all eternal life comes by the Holy Spirit;

John 6:63, It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Romans 8:10-11, And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.  

V.11, But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by5 his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

The Holy Spirit left Saul and he lost his eternal life he had by the Holy Spirit. It is impossible to have the Holy Spirit and not have eternal life, according to theabove passages. Saul the had eternal life and lost it by turning to sin and committing suicide instead of repenting.

[angels4u]

35 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

Old Testament King.

The Holy Spirit came down upon King Saul.

1 Sam. 10:9-10;

 V. 9, And it was so, that when he had turned his back to go from Samuel, God gave him another heart: and all those signs came to pass that day.
   

V. 10, And when they came thither to the hill, behold, a company of prophets met him; and the Spirit of God came upon him, and he prophesied among them.

It is also recorded how the Holy Spirit left him when he sinned (1 Sam. 16:12-13). He went into spiritualism and God said He would cut off the man who did this (Lev. 19:31; 20:6; Deut. 18:11).

King Saul had the Holy Spirit, he had life, for all eternal life comes by the Holy Spirit;

John 6:63, It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Romans 8:10-11, And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.  

V.11, But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by5 his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

The Holy Spirit left Saul and he lost his eternal life he had by the Holy Spirit. It is impossible to have the Holy Spirit and not have eternal life, according to theabove passages. Saul the had eternal life and lost it by turning to sin and committing suicide instead of repenting.

 

 

Hazard, only God knew his heart and it's not up to us to judge him, only God knows if he has salvation or not,many people  in the O.T. were saved by faith, who are we to judge him?

21 So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. 22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, 23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my …romans 7-21-23

He was disobedient , but God can save him by faith .

God can take things away from us too if we are a bad witness for Him or keep on sinning,we don't lose our Salvation but God can take us home early.

[HAZARD]

2 minutes ago, angels4u said:

Hazard, only God knew his heart and it's not up to us to judge him, only God knows if he has salvation or not,many people  in the O.T. were saved by faith, who are we to judge him?

21 So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. 22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, 23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my …romans 7-21-23

He was disobedient , but God can save him by faith .

God can take things away from us too if we are a bad witness for Him or keep on sinning,we don't lose our Salvation but God can take us home early.

No one is judging Saul? Scriptures clearly show that Saul had the Holy Spirit, turned to Spiritualism, and God cut him off?

Lev. 19: 31, Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God.

Lev. 20:  6, And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people.

Deut. 18: 10-11, , There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
V, 11, Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

The reason God clearly made these statements is to warn us not to do this or one will be cut off!

God called it and God will judge it. Saul not only turned to spiritualism, he went further. Had he repented God would have forgiven him but instead, he committed suicide, he fell on his sword.

Saul commanded his armour bearer to kill him but he refused;

1 Chron. 10: 4, Then said Saul to his armourbearer, Draw thy sword, and thrust me through therewith; lest these uncircumcised come and abuse me. But his armourbearer would not; for he was sore afraid. So Saul took a sword, and fell upon it.

Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the Lord, even against the Lord.

1 Chron. 10"   13, So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it;

I don't think anyone can be forgiven after dying in sin, else we could all do as we please and just say, "Well when we die we will be forgiven anyway?"

 

 

[Willa]

I have to agree with Kwik;  In the Old Testament the Holy Spirit fell upon people for specific duties and purposes, and that is true today as well.  We often call these gifts of the Holy Spirit today when a pastor is given a powerful ability to preach the Word, or when another has the ability to forsee the needs of others and supply them in the gift of helps.  Another has a gift of evangelism and is able to present the core of the Gospel in a powerful convincingly clear way.  So we might say that the Holy Spirit has fallen on them for these purposes.  

The Holy Spirit fell on Saul and David to rule the nation.  Saul even prophesied under the power of the Holy Spirit.  But then he would have murderous intents toward David and another spirit entered him.  The Holy Spirit left Saul while an evil spirit was upon him.   The same might be said said of David who prayed, "Create in me a clean heart and renew a right spirit within me, Cast me not away from thy presence and take not thy Holy Spirit from me."

  Jesus promises another type of relationship with the Holy Spirit--a more permanent one in which He would indwell us.  

Joh 14:16 NKJV  I will pray to the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, that he may be with you forever:  17  the Spirit of truth, whom the world can’t receive; for it doesn’t see him, neither knows him. You know him, for he lives with you, and will be in you.

Joh 7:38  He who believes in me, as the Scripture has said, from within him will flow rivers of living water.”   39  But he said this about the Spirit, which those believing in him were to receive. For the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus wasn’t yet glorified.

2Co 6:16  What agreement has a temple of God with idols? For you are a temple of the living God. Even as God said, “I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they will be my people

”Eph 3:17  AMP May Christ through your faith [actually] dwell (settle down, abide, make His permanent home) in your hearts! May you be rooted deep in love and founded securely on love,

G2730   (Word Study)  κατοικέω   katoikéō; contracted katoikṓ, fut. katoikḗsō, from katá (G2596), an intens., and oikéō (G3611), to dwell. Reside.  (I) A certain, fixed and durable dwelling,[ as distinguished from paroikéō (G3939), to sojourn, dwell in a place temporarily] To dwell in, inhabit a house or place (Mat 2:23; Mat 4:13; Act 7:4). ---(II) Metaphorically of God, with en (G1722), in (Act 7:48; Act 17:24; Sept.: Psa 2:4; Psa 9:11); of Christ as being permitted to take up full residence by His Spirit in the hearts of Christians (Eph 3:17);

 

In Acts 1:8, 2;4, Speaking of being filled with the Holy Spirit.  Act 1:8  But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you. You will be witnesses to me in Jerusalem, in all Judea and Samaria, and to the uttermost parts of the earth.”

Word Study  II) Metaphorically, aor. pass., eplḗsthēn, to be filled or to be full.  (A) Persons to be filled with something, i.e., to be wholly imbued, affected, influenced with or by something, with the gen. of thing as with the Holy Spirit (Luk 1:15, Luk 1:41, Luk 1:67; Act 2:4; Act 4:8, Act 4:31; Act 9:17; Act 13:9);

 

In the Old Testament we see God's Spirit coming upon and departing from people.  

1Sa 16:12  He sent, and brought him in. Now he was ruddy, with a handsome face and good appearance. Yahweh said, “Arise! Anoint him, for this is he.”1Sa 16:13  Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the middle of his brothers. Then Yahweh’s Spirit came mightily on David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up and went to Ramah.  1Sa 16:14  Now Yahweh’s Spirit departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from Yahweh troubled him.  

H6743   (Word Study)  צָלַח  ṣālaḥ, צָלֵחַ  ṣālēaḥ: I. A verb meaning to rush, to break forth, to come mightily. It describes the Holy Spirit's affect on persons, making them powerful (Jdg 14:6, Jdg 14:9; Jdg 15:14; 1Sa 16:13); or causing persons to prophesy (1Sa 10:6, 1Sa 10:10; 1Sa 11:6). It indicates the effect of an evil spirit as well (1Sa 18:10)

 

So the Holy Spirit came upon people for power to do God's work in both the old and new testaments.  But only in the Church age has God dwelled in people, making His home in them as a permanent residence.  This is part of being born again.  When we are born of God His Spirit comes to live in us permanently, sealing us as God's own possession and adopting us as His children.  

[HAZARD]

Old Testament King.

The Holy Spirit came down upon King Saul.

1 Sam. 10:9-10;

 V. 9, And it was so, that when he had turned his back to go from Samuel, God gave him another heart: and all those signs came to pass that day.
   

V. 10, And when they came thither to the hill, behold, a company of prophets met him; and the Spirit of God came upon him, and he prophesied among them.

Prov. 1:23 Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.
Joe 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
Joe 2:29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

The Holy Spirit dwells IN men only in the sense of UNION WITH, but never by bodily entrance into the human body to live like an incarnation. God and man are in perfect union and are considered as being one and dwelling in each other. The Holy Spirit has worked in all ages and has blessed men according to every promise of God and according to the faith of the individual and this will always be the case.

The Holy Spirit has executed judgment because men have tempted and lied to Him (Acts 5:3-10).

 

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, HAZARD said:

Old Testament King.

The Holy Spirit came down upon King Saul.

1 Sam. 10:9-10;

 V. 9, And it was so, that when he had turned his back to go from Samuel, God gave him another heart: and all those signs came to pass that day.
   

V. 10, And when they came thither to the hill, behold, a company of prophets met him; and the Spirit of God came upon him, and he prophesied among them.

Prov. 1:23 Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.
Joe 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
Joe 2:29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

The Holy Spirit dwells IN men only in the sense of UNION WITH, but never by bodily entrance into the human body to live like an incarnation. God and man are in perfect union and are considered as being one and dwelling in each other. The Holy Spirit has worked in all ages and has blessed men according to every promise of God and according to the faith of the individual and this will always be the case.

The Holy Spirit has executed judgment because men have tempted and lied to Him (Acts 5:3-10).

 

I was wondering all the time, why Jesus would say to wait for the day of Penticost to receive the  comforter , the Holy Ghost. 

And earlier he had said: 

It is better for you if I go, for if I go the FATHER will sent the comforter in my name..........

Why the FATHER could not give the comforter to them before, during their time when they were with Jesus these three years? 

[Ezra]

On 7/18/2016 at 2:26 AM, kwikphilly said:

Anointing,Indwelling,Authority,the Power,,,,,,what is the difference?Where does it come from?

1. First of all, everything mentioned comes from the Holy Spirit Himself (who is God), so one must begin with the GIFT of the Holy Spirit. He is given as a gift to those who repent and believe (Acts 2:38).

2. INDWELLING. Having been given that gift, He indwells the believer, and more particularly the spirit of the believer, which is quickened and renewed (Tit 3:4-7). This is simultaneous with the New Birth.

3. ANOINTING. Those who are indwelt are also enable to comprehend spiritual things and spiritual truths through the anointing or unction of the Holy Spirit (1 Jn 2:20,27). This also requires diligent study of the Word (2 Tim 2:15).

4. FILLING/EMPOWERMENT. Those who give the Holy Spirit full control of their lives are then filled with the Holy Ghost, which means that they are empowered, particularly to be bold witnesses for Christ (Acts 1:8).  Those who are filled with the Spirit also walk in the Spirit (Gal 5:25).

5. AUTHORITY.  Those who are born again are also given the authority [Gk exousia translated as *power* (KJV)] to be children of God (Jn 1:12,13).  This also means that every believer has at least one spiritual gift, and there are about twenty spiritual gifts.  The sign gifts were given to the apostles to authenticate the Gospel message (Heb 2:3,4) , but there are many others which are generally ignored.