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Revelation 6: The Four Horsemen & the Seven Seals


rollinTHUNDER

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On 7/19/2016 at 0:14 PM, rollinTHUNDER said:

Some scholars believe we have already entered the tribulation, and that all of the four horsemen have begun to ride. Others base their beliefs on the various colors of the horses in the first four seals. Yet many others believe the seven seals parallel the conditions Christ outlined in His Olivet Discourse. But since I disagree with all of the theories above, I had to take a road less traveled. So I set out to blaze a new trail. In my view, I see the different descriptions given for each of the seven seals. And I believe that when each seal is opened, we will be able to recognize the changing conditions in the world around us, as very specific events will occur that will directly relate to each of the seven seals.
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In my view, there’s a very good possibility that the rider of the first horse, the white horse, may have already begun to ride. The rider of the second horse (red) may also be getting ready to ride. However, I do not see any indication that the rider’s of the black and pale horse’s have mounted-up just yet. With that, I’ll begin my interpretation and complete break-down of Revelation chapter 6, which I believe, provides us with very strong clues about the conditions we’ll see unfolding in the world, when each of these successive seals are opened.
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Revelation 6:1-2 (MEV) "I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures saying, with voice like thunder, “Come and see.” 2 And I looked, and there before me was a white horse. He who sat on it had a bow. And a crown was given to him, and he went forth conquering that he might overcome."
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The rider of the white horse has a bow and a crown was given to him as he goes forth conquering. It seems likely to me that a bow without any arrows may possibly be indicating that a leader will arise on the world stage and conquer nations without actually going to war with them. If this is so, I can only think of one man at this present time that would possibly fit this description. In fact, this same man seems to fit the description given in several other Bible prophecies as well, especially in the book of Daniel. However, I’m not being dogmatic about the character here. That’s not important. We can always change his name later, if someone else comes along later, who seems to fit better. But as of now, I can’t think of any others, so I’m filling in the blanks with this particular character, in order to show how I interpret the scriptures in this most intriguing chapter.
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When Barack Obama was declared the winner of the 2008 election, he chose a very interesting place to set up a unique stage where he would deliver his acceptance speech. It was the newly built stadium for the Denver Broncos. At the top of the stadium, there just happens to be a large (27 ft. tall) statue of a white horse. It’s a statue of an Arabian stallion named Thunder. At that time, no one would’ve made the connection or given that statue much thought, as it could easily be just coincidental. I didn’t make the connection then either, not until I started putting more of the puzzle pieces together just recently. I mean, a white horse, a bow without arrows, which may indicate conquering without actually going to war. Another thing I find very odd, is that they would name that statue “Thunder,” because the first living creature had a voice like thunder, and scripture doesn’t say anything about the voices of the other three living creatures who speak afterward. This could be another hidden nugget!
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Some might think I’m way off base here, considering Obama could possibly be the fulfillment of this prophecy, and years ago, I would have agreed with them. The reason is that after the nation of Israel was born in a day, in 1948, many Bible prophecy scholars began taking a more literal approach to interpreting Bible prophecies, just as Sir Isaac Newton had predicted nearly 300 years ago. And for the last four or five decades, scholars have been watching the European Union, expecting the world’s final dictator would arise from a revived Roman Empire (EU). I’m sure many of these scholars would think it’s ridiculous to even think Daniel’s little horn, the son of lawlessness, could possibly come from the USA.
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Could it be, that they are thinking too much about the ancient Roman Empire, and not enough about the revived Roman Empire? They seem to be overlooking the fact that Daniel said the fourth beast (Rome) would end up devouring the whole world (globalism), treading it down and breaking it in pieces (Dan. 7:23). In Daniel’s prophecy, the ancient Roman Empire was Daniel’s fourth and final beast. Rome was also the only one of Daniel’s empires that wasn’t conquered by any other kingdom. It just grew too large and collapsed from within, as it led the world into the dark ages. Now fast-forward to the 15th century, as the first settlers in the new world (North America) sailed with Christopher Columbus from Spain, which was part of the ancient Roman Empire. Many others fled from Britain, which is still a member of the EU today. And here we are now, still under the Roman system of law to this very day. Need I say anymore?
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Obama isn’t known as a man of war. He is better known for pulling troops out of occupied territories from previous wars, which may give the appearance that he is more peaceful and would rather have dialog and negotiate with the opposition, instead of putting troops on the ground. But he tends to give bold warnings (boastful words), and then not back them up when he’s challenged. He is also a meddler in the affairs of other nations. And we shouldn’t forget that it was none other than his administration that brought on the Arab Spring, an uprising of people protesting their governments, creating chaos in many Middle Eastern nations . If it turns out that Obama is not the rider of the white horse, his foreign policy has, at the very least, set the entire Middle East ablaze with turmoil; while also turning against Israel, our only true friend and ally in that region.
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Egypt’s government was overthrown as Hosni Mubarak was ousted. It was reported that the CIA left a trail in Egypt and encouraged the Egyptian people to rise up and riot against the government, so that Obama’s preferred Muslim Brotherhood could take charge instead. I wouldn’t be a bit surprised to learn that professional rioters were sent in, just as was reported in the racial riots in American cities. Divide and conquer seems to be his strategy, both in his foreign policy and domestic as well. As a result, the Muslim Brotherhood did take over in Egypt, even though their run didn’t last long, as the Egyptian citizen’s quickly revolted and forced the Muslim Brotherhood out. Short 3 minute video:
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Then Muammar Gaddafi was assassinated in Libya, and once again, USA fingerprints were all over the evidence, as Gaddafi was planning to sell oil without using the petro-dollar. I should also note that Saddam Hussein was actually killed for the very same reason in Iraq, under the Bush regime, contrary to the propaganda reported by the western media, that he had nuclear weapons. With the removal of Gaddafi, Libya was engulfed in chaos. Hillary Clinton’s nightmare in Benghazi led to another weapons smuggling ring that sent shipments through Syria and into the hands of ISIS, a western proxy army, created for the purpose of removing Bashar al-Assad, who was Obama’s next target for removal. Only this time, Russia’s Vladimir Putin has intervened and appears to be calling Obama’s bluff.
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Though it’s still a little too early to tell for sure, I believe this is very possibly how the rider of the white horse (Obama) conquers national governments without going to war against them (bow without arrows). Obama has successfully subdued two kingdoms, and now has his sight set on a third, Bashar Assad of Syria (Dan. 7:8). This may sound ridiculous too, but even his name seems to fit (Obama-nation), and he could easily pass as a son of lawlessness. And now that he’s entered the final year of his presidency, he’s already setting his sights on world leadership in the future (Secretary-General of the UN), which becomes a vacant position at the end of 2016, less than three weeks before his second term as president ends.

Obama is not the Anti-Christ, but I believe he may very well be the "John the Baptist" of the Anti-Christ, preparing his path/way.  WHAT ELSE EXPLAINS ALL OF HIS BLUNDERS ?

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On ‎7‎/‎21‎/‎2016 at 9:00 PM, Ezra said:

I believe that is a reasonable conclusion, since the Second Coming of Christ is the culmination in both the Olivet Discourse and the book of Revelation. The first five seals have been evident since the first century. The 6th and 7th seals are yet to become a reality.

Hey Ezra,

How do you figure the first 5 seals have already been opened?  I'm not so sure that any of them have been opened yet.  But I'm confident in saying the 3rd seal, and the seals that follow have not been opened yet. 

Cheers 

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On 7/19/2016 at 0:14 PM, rollinTHUNDER said:

Some scholars believe we have already entered the tribulation, and that all of the four horsemen have begun to ride.

One thing is sure: John never wrote that the seals are a part of the "tribulation" or the 70th week. In fact, if a student does due diligence and studies chapters 4 & 5 of Revelation, they will discover the real TIMING for the first 5 seals.  John got to see the very moment in time that Jesus ascended into heaven and sent the Holy Spirit down.  That would have been around 32 or 33 AD. This (and no other) is the CONTEXT for the seals.

I understand some have a great need to pull things out of context so the scripture will fit their theory - anyone can make the bible say anything by pulling verses out of context. Always remember, to find the intent of the Author in any passage is to leave that passage in its contest.

IN CONTEXT (the ONLY way to see it) the first seal was opened by Jesus around 32 AD. Same with seals 2, 3, 4, and 5. NO ONE can find 2000 years hidden in or between any of these verses because that was not the intent of the Author. These seals are CHURCH AGE events.

" If it turns out that Obama is not the rider of the white horse,"

Sorry, but Obama was not here in 32 AD when Jesus broke this first seal.

Edited by iamlamad
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"I'm not so sure that any of them have been opened yet.  But I'm confident in saying the 3rd seal, and the seals that follow have not been opened yet."

 

You are correct ..... none of the seals are opened yet

This will happen just before the tribulation begins in the 8th chapter of Revelation 

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1 hour ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

"I'm not so sure that any of them have been opened yet.  But I'm confident in saying the 3rd seal, and the seals that follow have not been opened yet."

 

You are correct ..... none of the seals are opened yet

This will happen just before the tribulation begins in the 8th chapter of Revelation 

You can be wrong if you choose to be, and it seems you have chosen to be. The truth is, IN CONTEXT the first seal was broken as soon as Jesus ascended into heaven. This is absolutely proven by Rev. chapter 5.  I understand, some people find a need to pull verses out of their context to fit a theory. God sets the timing of the first seal by showing John the moment Jesus ascended into heaven, and sent the Holy Spirit down.  This is the context of the seals. It sets the time to 32 AD.

I have an idea: why not form a theory that fits verses IN CONTEXT?

Seal 1: to represent the CHURCH with the GOSPEL. This rider rides alone, but is symbolic for the spread of the gospel.

Seal 2: the red horse: WAR

Seal 3: The black horse: famine, hunger

Seal 4: the pale horse: death

Power is given unto the red horse and rider, the black horse and rider, and the pale horse and rider to kill with the sword, with hunger and with death (think plagues, yellow fever , AIDS epidemics, etc). These three are SYMBOLIC to represent the devil's attempts to stop the advance of the gospel. They were limited to 1/4 of the earth. That would include Europe, Africa, and the middle East. 

Where have the world wars started? Europe. In fact, in the last thousand years there has hardly been a 5 year span without fighting going on somewhere in Europe. Where have many famines been in the last hundred years? Africa. Where did the black plague hit two different times, each time killing about 1/3 of the people? Europe. When Europe was weakened by these plagues, then the Ottoman Empire came, by way of wars.

You see, just as the context of these seals shows us, these are church age events. Seal 5 is for the church age martyrs. Judgment cannot come until the church age or age of grace ends. That is the transition between seal 5 and seal 6. Only seal 6 & 7 are ahead of us today.

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On 7/19/2016 at 1:14 PM, rollinTHUNDER said:

Some scholars believe we have already entered the tribulation, and that all of the four horsemen have begun to ride. Others base their beliefs on the various colors of the horses in the first four seals. Yet many others believe the seven seals parallel the conditions Christ outlined in His Olivet Discourse. But since I disagree with all of the theories above, I had to take a road less traveled. So I set out to blaze a new trail. In my view, I see the different descriptions given for each of the seven seals. And I believe that when each seal is opened, we will be able to recognize the changing conditions in the world around us, as very specific events will occur that will directly relate to each of the seven seals.
.
In my view, there’s a very good possibility that the rider of the first horse, the white horse, may have already begun to ride. The rider of the second horse (red) may also be getting ready to ride. However, I do not see any indication that the rider’s of the black and pale horse’s have mounted-up just yet. With that, I’ll begin my interpretation and complete break-down of Revelation chapter 6, which I believe, provides us with very strong clues about the conditions we’ll see unfolding in the world, when each of these successive seals are opened.
.
Revelation 6:1-2 (MEV) "I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures saying, with voice like thunder, “Come and see.” 2 And I looked, and there before me was a white horse. He who sat on it had a bow. And a crown was given to him, and he went forth conquering that he might overcome."
.
The rider of the white horse has a bow and a crown was given to him as he goes forth conquering. It seems likely to me that a bow without any arrows may possibly be indicating that a leader will arise on the world stage and conquer nations without actually going to war with them. If this is so, I can only think of one man at this present time that would possibly fit this description. In fact, this same man seems to fit the description given in several other Bible prophecies as well, especially in the book of Daniel. However, I’m not being dogmatic about the character here. That’s not important. We can always change his name later, if someone else comes along later, who seems to fit better. But as of now, I can’t think of any others, so I’m filling in the blanks with this particular character, in order to show how I interpret the scriptures in this most intriguing chapter.
.
When Barack Obama was declared the winner of the 2008 election, he chose a very interesting place to set up a unique stage where he would deliver his acceptance speech. It was the newly built stadium for the Denver Broncos. At the top of the stadium, there just happens to be a large (27 ft. tall) statue of a white horse. It’s a statue of an Arabian stallion named Thunder. At that time, no one would’ve made the connection or given that statue much thought, as it could easily be just coincidental. I didn’t make the connection then either, not until I started putting more of the puzzle pieces together just recently. I mean, a white horse, a bow without arrows, which may indicate conquering without actually going to war. Another thing I find very odd, is that they would name that statue “Thunder,” because the first living creature had a voice like thunder, and scripture doesn’t say anything about the voices of the other three living creatures who speak afterward. This could be another hidden nugget!
.
Some might think I’m way off base here, considering Obama could possibly be the fulfillment of this prophecy, and years ago, I would have agreed with them. The reason is that after the nation of Israel was born in a day, in 1948, many Bible prophecy scholars began taking a more literal approach to interpreting Bible prophecies, just as Sir Isaac Newton had predicted nearly 300 years ago. And for the last four or five decades, scholars have been watching the European Union, expecting the world’s final dictator would arise from a revived Roman Empire (EU). I’m sure many of these scholars would think it’s ridiculous to even think Daniel’s little horn, the son of lawlessness, could possibly come from the USA.
.
Could it be, that they are thinking too much about the ancient Roman Empire, and not enough about the revived Roman Empire? They seem to be overlooking the fact that Daniel said the fourth beast (Rome) would end up devouring the whole world (globalism), treading it down and breaking it in pieces (Dan. 7:23). In Daniel’s prophecy, the ancient Roman Empire was Daniel’s fourth and final beast. Rome was also the only one of Daniel’s empires that wasn’t conquered by any other kingdom. It just grew too large and collapsed from within, as it led the world into the dark ages. Now fast-forward to the 15th century, as the first settlers in the new world (North America) sailed with Christopher Columbus from Spain, which was part of the ancient Roman Empire. Many others fled from Britain, which is still a member of the EU today. And here we are now, still under the Roman system of law to this very day. Need I say anymore?
.
Obama isn’t known as a man of war. He is better known for pulling troops out of occupied territories from previous wars, which may give the appearance that he is more peaceful and would rather have dialog and negotiate with the opposition, instead of putting troops on the ground. But he tends to give bold warnings (boastful words), and then not back them up when he’s challenged. He is also a meddler in the affairs of other nations. And we shouldn’t forget that it was none other than his administration that brought on the Arab Spring, an uprising of people protesting their governments, creating chaos in many Middle Eastern nations . If it turns out that Obama is not the rider of the white horse, his foreign policy has, at the very least, set the entire Middle East ablaze with turmoil; while also turning against Israel, our only true friend and ally in that region.
.
Egypt’s government was overthrown as Hosni Mubarak was ousted. It was reported that the CIA left a trail in Egypt and encouraged the Egyptian people to rise up and riot against the government, so that Obama’s preferred Muslim Brotherhood could take charge instead. I wouldn’t be a bit surprised to learn that professional rioters were sent in, just as was reported in the racial riots in American cities. Divide and conquer seems to be his strategy, both in his foreign policy and domestic as well. As a result, the Muslim Brotherhood did take over in Egypt, even though their run didn’t last long, as the Egyptian citizen’s quickly revolted and forced the Muslim Brotherhood out. Short 3 minute video:
.
Then Muammar Gaddafi was assassinated in Libya, and once again, USA fingerprints were all over the evidence, as Gaddafi was planning to sell oil without using the petro-dollar. I should also note that Saddam Hussein was actually killed for the very same reason in Iraq, under the Bush regime, contrary to the propaganda reported by the western media, that he had nuclear weapons. With the removal of Gaddafi, Libya was engulfed in chaos. Hillary Clinton’s nightmare in Benghazi led to another weapons smuggling ring that sent shipments through Syria and into the hands of ISIS, a western proxy army, created for the purpose of removing Bashar al-Assad, who was Obama’s next target for removal. Only this time, Russia’s Vladimir Putin has intervened and appears to be calling Obama’s bluff.
.
Though it’s still a little too early to tell for sure, I believe this is very possibly how the rider of the white horse (Obama) conquers national governments without going to war against them (bow without arrows). Obama has successfully subdued two kingdoms, and now has his sight set on a third, Bashar Assad of Syria (Dan. 7:8). This may sound ridiculous too, but even his name seems to fit (Obama-nation), and he could easily pass as a son of lawlessness. And now that he’s entered the final year of his presidency, he’s already setting his sights on world leadership in the future (Secretary-General of the UN), which becomes a vacant position at the end of 2016, less than three weeks before his second term as president ends.

Something you might want to take note on is at the braking of the sixth seal. It seems, even in the Bible, people in general will not know anything is going on until number 6th takes place. See last line of 6th seal.

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"You can be wrong if you choose to be, and it seems you have chosen to be. The truth is, IN CONTEXT the first seal was broken as soon as Jesus ascended into heaven."

 

And you are wrong .... the seals are portents of things to come that will not start until the Lord is ready

None have yet to materialize including the first one

These are noted and prescribed by the Lord Himself from the first to the last .... and all of the related events will occur beginning in chapter 8

The prelude to this occurs in chapter 6 ending in the same [Revelation 6:1-17]

Chapter 7 reveals the sealing of the 144000 Israelites and at the same time the immortals of the pre-tribulation believers

.... then the tribulation events will begin in chapter 8

 

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Guys, always remember, anyone can make the bible say ANYTHING by pulling things out of context. 

Rev. 5:And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Can we determine any kind of timing by these words? It is speaking about past events, current events or future events?

John had been in the throne room [95 AD], and seeing things and describing them for some time. He saw a throne room WITHOUT Jesus Christ- and we can be sure of this because He did not write of seeing Jesus Christ. IF Jesus had been at the right hand of the Father, we can be sure John would have written it. But here in chapter five, suddenly a new person arrives in the throne room that was not there a moment before: Jesus Christ appears as a Lamb having been slain. Did John REALLY see a Lamb? No, it is symbolism. Dead and slain lambs would not be standing. Jesus is the Lamb of God. The book of life is really the Lamb's book of life. From this verse we can know that Jesus Christ, the Son of the Most High God, suddenly appeared in the throne room of heaven.

From the previous verse: "Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof" we know that not only did He suddenly appear, but He was just found worthy to take this book into His own hands and break the seals. Next, we see in this verse 6 above that Jesus appeared with "seven horns and seven eyes" which John tells us are the seven spirits of God. Then we learn He is "sent" forth. 

So, do we know from another verse about the Holy Spirit sent? Yes: John 16:

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Jesus was telling his disciples that when He departs [earth} and ascends to heaven, then He will send the Holy Spirit back down to them.  In fact, Rev. 5:6 is the fulfilling of John 16:7. It shows Jesus ascending back into the throne room He left 32 years previously, and at that moment the Holy Spirit is sent down.

Therefore We CAN see timing in Rev. 5:6: it is the very moment Jesus entered the throne room He left 32 years previously. Therefore the timing is around 32 AD. We can determine this from the very words written.  Without any doubt then, we can acertain that John was writing of a historic time. It was 95 AD and John was writing of an event of 32 AD. Just keep in mind, John was writing exactly what He saw.  God was giving John this vision so GOD chose to show John that moment in history that Jesus ascended into the throne room and sent the Holy Spirit down.

God had asked me a question: "WHY was the Holy Spirit still seen in the throne room in John's vision in chapter 4? He said to me: "I ascended many years before John saw this vision and I said that I would send the Holy Spirit down as soon as I ascended."

I could not answer His question. Nor could I answer the other questions He asked me. Finally, after weeks of trying to answer His questions, He suddeny spoke again: "Go and study chapter 12."

I did not want to study chapter 12! I wanted the answer to His questions on chapters 4 & 5! But I was obedient, and turned to chapter 12. When my bible was turned to that chapter, He spoke again and gave me a synopsis:

"This chapter was me introducing John to the dragon, and in particular, what the dragon would be doing in the last half of the week. Count how many times the dragon is mentioned, including pronouns." 

So I counted 32 times. I acknowledged to God that this chapter was indeed about the dragon.  Then He continued: "I also CHOSE to show John what the dragon did when I was a child: those first five verses were a 'history lesson" for John."

So what is the REAL meaning of Rev. 12:1-5? Is it about a future 70th week? Or is it about how King Herod tried to murder Him as a child? Well, Jesus Christ, the head of the church, spoke words to me that these verses were about HIM as a child. And if we actually study the words, it is indeed about Israel about to bring forth the long awaited Messiah. Mary was of Israel, and she brought forth the man child what would in the future rule the world with a rod of Iron. 

However, we know that King Herod attempted to murder the Messiah while he was a very young child, certainly under 2 years old.

So God sent me to chapter 12 to get "history lesson" in my mind. Then He said "you can go back and study chapters 4 & 5 again."

I turned by bible back, and within five minutes had the answer to all His questions. Jesus was not in the throne room, because this was a vision of the past! He was still on earth! No man was found worthy, because at that moment in time, Jesus had not yet risen from the dead. The moment He rose from the dead, He was found worthy.

The Holy Spirit was still there in chapter 4 because jesus had not yet ascended - but would ascend in chapter 5.

Finally, in chapter 5, we see Jesus ascending and the Holy Spirit sent down.

All this was to establish TIMING for the first seals. There is not 2000 years between any of these verses! Jesus got that book into His hands the moment He ascended. And He began immediately to break seals.

In other words, consider the first seals as broken or opened in 32 AD - for that is truth.

Seal one is to represent the CHURCH sent out with the GOSPEL.

Seals 2, 3, and 4 ride together and are to represent the devil's attempts to stop the advance of the gospel. But God LIMITED them in their theater of operation to 1/4 of the earth's surface. We can be sure that 1/4 was centered in Jerusalem where the gospel began.

Seal 5 is very simple: it is the martyrs of the church age. They have no idea how long until judgment. In fact, we don't even know: we can only guess that today we are very close.

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