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Sequence-of-Events Analysis


Marcus O'Reillius

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On 24/07/2016 at 1:07 AM, Marcus O'Reillius said:

The days of the Great Tribulation.  How long could you last without being able to buy food while all the while they're hunting you down?

The second half of the one 'seven' runs its full course.  Most of it contains the Wrath of God, which, according to Revelation 14:17-20, comes right after the Harvest of Rev 14:14-16; and to which the Harvest marries with Mt 24:30-31.  The Wrath of God is omitted from the Olivet Discourse; that does not mean it isn't there.  Perhaps Jesus excludes it because it does not pertain to us.

1) The wrath of God runs for 3 1/2 years = 6 trumps/vials .. which wrath runs parallel WITH the tribulation of the saints occurring within that SAME 3 1/2 years.

2) The literal DAY of wrath = 7th trump/vial occurs on the DAY of Christs return, WITHIN that same HOUR of that same literal DAY .. wherein the harvest also occurs, again, occurring AFTER the tribulation and likewise ending the wrath of God ON that DAY.

3) The 3 1/2 years of the tribulation of the saints BEGINS with the passing of the mark of the beast becoming compulsory/LAW, alternatively, the BEGINNING of the wrath of God occurs once ALL those to be marked ARE marked.

4) The TWO above EVENTS obviously occur within the SAME 3 1/2 years seeing THEY are the result of the SAME law taking place at the SAME TIME.

5) The harvest occurs AFTER those 3 1/2 years or tribulation against the saints & wrath of God against the marked are BOTH play out within the SAME time frame.

6) There is NO pre-trib rapture to alter the above sequence God already laid out.

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10 hours ago, Serving said:

1) The wrath of God runs for 3 1/2 years = 6 trumps/vials .. which wrath runs parallel WITH the tribulation of the saints occurring within that SAME 3 1/2 years.

That is a conclusion of yours.  

The Great Tribulation is cut short according to Jesus in Mt 24:22.  You have it running the whole length of the rest of the one 'seven' from its midpoint start with the abomination of desolation.
That is an internal inconsistency of your eschatological belief.

 

10 hours ago, Serving said:

2) The literal DAY of wrath = 7th trump/vial occurs on the DAY of Christs return, WITHIN that same HOUR of that same literal DAY .. wherein the harvest also occurs, again, occurring AFTER the tribulation and likewise ending the wrath of God ON that DAY.

This thread is not a vehicle to compare our eschatologies.
No one here agrees with anyone else on 75% of what they share, much less than 100%.
I am not wrong simply because my eschatology conflicts with yours.

Now if you want to argue about your Post-Trib take with its "last day" adherence, we can do so on this thread: https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/199678-the-last-trumpet-is-not-the-7th-trumpet/ 
I will gladly entertain your eschatology there, however, I ask that you refrain from diverting this thread here.

 

10 hours ago, Serving said:

3) The 3 1/2 years of the tribulation of the saints BEGINS with the passing of the mark of the beast becoming compulsory/LAW, alternatively, the BEGINNING of the wrath of God occurs once ALL those to be marked ARE marked.

Again, this is your belief, and as such, and as one of the internal inconsistencies of Post-Trib, it conflicts with Jesus' truthful statement about the Great Tribulation being cut short in Mt 24:22.

 

10 hours ago, Serving said:

4) The TWO above EVENTS obviously occur within the SAME 3 1/2 years seeing THEY are the result of the SAME law taking place at the SAME TIME.

That is wholly your conclusion and you are not pointing to any mistake I've made in the presentation so far as the Sequence-of-Events in linear, prophetic narrative passages show.

 

10 hours ago, Serving said:

5) The harvest occurs AFTER those 3 1/2 years or tribulation against the saints & wrath of God against the marked are BOTH play out within the SAME time frame.

Scripture only shows that the Harvest comes AFTER the midpoint abomination of a talking idol of the anti-Christ, and the Great Tribulation.

Any insistence that it comes at the end of the one 'seven' is statement of belief from a "last day" Post-Trib adherent, and not any specific instance of error found so far in the Scripture I have provided.
Again, I am not wrong simply because what I am presenting conflicts with your pre-set eschatology.

You say that the Harvest occurs after God's Wrath, but in Revelation 14, Jesus reveals to John that God's Wrath comes immediately after the Harvest.
This facet of your eschatology has another internal inconsistency with Scripture.

 

10 hours ago, Serving said:

6) There is NO pre-trib rapture to alter the above sequence God already laid out.

Red herring.  This has nothing to do with Pre-Trib eschatology.  As the label points out, I am Pre-Wrath.

Edited by Marcus O'Reillius
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The sidebar account of the Temple and the Two Witnesses in Revelation 11:1-13
 

The sidebar account, kind of like when a court trial is interrupted by some legal point which has the Judge conferring with the lawyers, happens when John is told not to write.
John is told to measure the Temple, but we never hear of that... right? No, actually, you can read about John measuring the Temple way back in Ezekiel.  In the final chapters describing the “third” Temple, Ezekiel sees a man (in bronze – imbued with Heaven) measuring the Temple just as John was ordered.

In outlining the events in the sidebar account the first thing to jump out as a set of facts is that it has two halves in it.   This omits the midpoint abomination, but an omission is not a commission of an error in prophecy: the sequence remains intact.  The actual splitting of the one ‘seven’ was initiated by Gabriel when he told Daniel in the middle of the one ‘seven,’ so what is presented in Revelation is not at odds with Daniel 9:27, but instead, compliments it.  The mention of two halves of the one ‘seven’ here are the first two of five times this phrase is repeated in the next two chapters – and repetition of a specific and unique event is indicative of parallel account construction within a book.

  • Temple w/ Gentiles 42 mos.
  • Two Witnesses 1260 days - call down Wrath
  • Two Witnesses die from Demon from Abyss.
  • Two Witnesses arise.
  • Earth changing earthquake.

As for placement, it would be easy to say 1st half / 2nd half just because the Bible ordered them in that fashion narrating about the Temple and then the Two Witnesses - but there is reason to do that besides the given order.  Starting with the given order of first half/second half would be logical because this is a linear narrative, and that is the basic pattern for most of the Bible, but there are other reasons buttressing that assessment as well, they reinforce through logic so that taking the events listed in the sidebar account as linear are not an assumption.

In order for the Abomination to stand in front of the Curtain as Jesus said with the "Holy Place," and to actually be in the Temple as Paul stated (Paul never lived without a Temple in place) There is going to have to be a Temple built - and along the lines of what John measured.  The Temple must exist (or be built) in the first half of the one ‘seven.’

Now the Witnesses precede Jesus, so they could come in the first half, but as God's Wrath of desolations which have been decreed doesn't fall until after the midpoint abomination – and the Two Witnesses can call down some of it – then they must (at least) occupy some of the second half of the one ‘seven.’  The Two Witnesses have to occupy the whole second half because their end coincides with the end of the one 'seven' which has such a great earthquake in chapter 11. The 1260 days comes after the midpoint.  

This then makes sense: They precede Christ’s parousia, call down some of God's desolations, and are killed by a Demon who is let out when the fifth Trumpet opens the abyss.  Then, they arise right before an earth-changing Great Earthquake which happens to finish the one ‘seven.’  So, they are God’s first response to the midpoint abomination and they see God’s Wrath through to the end.

The final earthquake of the one ‘seven’ sets up a condition in the Millennium.  The first earthquake of the sixth Seal shakes the earth to leave that which is unshakeable, like finding the truth.  The second earthquake of the sixth Seal, when the Mount of Olives is split in two, changes the entire earth’s relative geography much like phenomenal earthquakes of years just past have “rang the earth” like a bell.  While the second moves mountains, this final third one eliminates them.  This provides for a condition in the Millennium whereby rain is not determined by mechanical lifting, bringing forth both rain forests and corresponding deserts, but by Jesus depending upon a nation’s obedience to worship.

So our list now looks like this:

  • The rise of the fourth terrible beast of a nation out of the “sea”
    • Worship of the beast (rebellion against God)
  • Covenant with many prevailed by the Roman ruler who will come
  • Authority given (by God) to the beast of a man for one-half of the one 'seven'
    • Temple w/ Gentiles 42 mos.
    • He wages war against the Saints
    • We are to endure patiently (remember Rev 3:10 and John 17:15)
    • Rise of the false prophet with miracles and 'fire from the sky'
  • Armies surround Jerusalem
  • Midpoint Abomination Erection of the talking image of the anti-Christ
    • Two laws which make the Great Tribulation the worst time ever
    • Two Witnesses 1260 days - call down Wrath
    • Great Tribulation
  • Sun/moon/star event Day of the LORD
    • Scrolling of the sky = sign of the Son of Man
    • Jesus touches down upon the earth
    • Mustering the 144,000 assembled on Mount Zion
    • 3 Angels fulfill the Great Commission / Warn the wicked
    • Son of Man coming on the clouds
    • Harvest Redemption / Gathering Elect from the clouds
    • Great Multitude arrives in Heaven out of the Great Tribulation
    • Scroll opened with breaking of seventh Seal.
    • First Trumpet fire and blood – 1/3rd of earth burned
      • Avenging Angels – supplying Blood and managing the Fire
  • Wrath of God following the Day of the Lord
    • Second Trumpet  - 1/3rd of sea to blood
    • Third Trumpet - 1/3rd of water bitter
    • Fourth Trumpet - 1/3rd of light struck
    • Fifth Trumpet Abyss opened 5 months torment
    • Sixth Trumpet WWIII - 1/3rdf of man killed
    • Seventh Trumpet
      • First Bowl - Sores on Man
      • Second Bowl - All sea to blood
      • Third Bowl - All water to blood
      • Fourth Bowl - Seared by heat
      • Fifth Bowl - Satan's kingdom in the dark
      • Sixth Bowl - Way for the King of the East - Battle at Armageddon
        • Two Witnesses die from Demon from Abyss
      • Seventh Bowl –
        • end with desolations poured out on the Roman desolator
        • Two Witnesses arise
        •  Earth changing earthquake

Notice that the Two Witnesses are a direct response to the midpoint abomination, they come as the Great Tribulation goes into effect. They are the Marines of God's Army and the anti-Christ is unable to subdue them; the Two Witnesses can destroy any who oppose them.

Edited by Marcus O'Reillius
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Hi Marcus,

You must have missed my last post, so I will ask again. You have the Lord coming on the clouds before the trumpets & the bowls of wrath. What do you think He is doing on earth during that time?

Marilyn. 

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On 7/24/2016 at 8:25 PM, Marilyn C said:

Backing up to your Rev 4- 11 comments. Are you saying that  the thirds come AFTER Christ has come?

Totally missed it; but the answer is yes.
 

10 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

You must have missed my last post, so I will ask again. You have the Lord coming on the clouds before the trumpets & the bowls of wrath.

First of all, I do not have the Lord coming on the clouds before the Trumpets.

1.) The Great Multitude show up in Heaven before the Scroll is unsealed so as to allow the "desolations decreed" (Dan 9:26) within (and without - it's written on both sides which is unnatural) to go forward with the Trumpet judgments in the broad overview of the end-times (which may have started in the mid-1800's with the first Seal) of Revelation chapters 4-11 (exclusive), and 

2.) In the detailed parallel account of only the one 'seven' with the Rise and Fall of the anti-Christ in Revelation chapters 13-16 (inclusive) - the avenging Angel who stokes the winepress of God's Wrath comes immediately after the Harvest.  In addition - he supplies the second element of the Day of the Lord's Wrath -blood- under the charge of an Angel who has charge of the fire - the first element of the Day of the Lord's Wrath.  (Smoke is provided by the fire -and- by mountains which "smoke".)
 

10 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

What do you think He is doing on earth during that time?

1.) He touches down and splits the Mount of Olives in two.  This is the second earthquake of the sixth Seal.  This allows those in Jerusalem to escape to the east, and then south to join the Jews from Judea who escaped at the midpoint invasion of Israel from the North (Gog/Magog war).

2.) Upon this newly christened Mount Zion, Jesus musters the 144,000 from all over the world.  (Isa 13:2-4).  These Firstfruits are not Jewish, but Christian, being of the same type as the Harvest - they look to Jesus for their salvation; they are believers.  (Note: John uses a list unlike any other for the 12 tribes.  We have to allow there is a reason for that; that he is not pointing to natural borne Israelis.)  This people may represent the spiritual Israel that Paul references in Romans.

3.) Leaving these men to be sealed by Angels, Jesus then goes to the place where the Dead in Christ "rest in peace."  In accordance with John 5:25, this time the application is not to those who are alive but spiritually dead in their sin as was the case to those hearing His Words, but literally applicable to those who have actually passed away and are physically dead, yet are spiritually alive because of their faith.  I allow that this group can include people from before Jesus' First Advent, like Daniel.

4.) Now with these Saints, a great multitude of souls in new, imperishable, immortal bodies; Jesus makes a victory lap over the earth - east to west - gathering those who are still alive and remain after the Great Tribulation has decimated the Elect to a mere remnant.  Also included are any who hear the Word for the first time because of the first of three Angels who precede the Harvest in Revelation chapter 14 and whom are revealed there as well.

5.) Now with this Great Multitude, Jesus delivers the wheat to the barn of Heaven (Mt 13's parable of the wheat and the tares) and with the First Trumpet, He goes out to meet the 144,000 on Mount Zion and they make the charge against Jerusalem, and then fight in the Valley of Decision, which scholars peg to the area around Bethlehem, just to the south.

___________________________________________________________
 

You didn't ask, but during the time of the other Trumpets, Jesus returns, with the 144,000 who never leave His Side, to Heaven.  A beautiful portrait of our Lord doing this can be found in Isaiah 63:

1 Who is this who comes from Edom,
With garments of glowing colors from Bozrah,
This One who is majestic in His apparel,
 Marching in the greatness of His strength?

"It is I who speak in righteousness, mighty to save."
2 Why is Your apparel red,
And Your garments like the one who treads in the wine press?

3 " I have trodden the wine trough alone,
And from the peoples there was no man with Me.
I also trod them in My anger
And trampled them in My wrath;
And their lifeblood is sprinkled on My garments,
And I stained all My raiment.

4 "For the day of vengeance was in My heart,
And My year of redemption has come.

5 "I looked, and there was no one to help,
And I was astonished and there was no one to uphold;
So My own arm brought salvation to Me,
And My wrath upheld Me.

6 "I trod down the peoples in My anger
And made them drunk in My wrath,
And I poured out their lifeblood on the earth."

I will also add that Jesus was mobile in death - 
- He taught in Luke 16 of Paradise and Hades: and one could not go from one to the other
- In John, Jesus tells the thief on His Right that they will go to Paradise that day.
- He revealed to Peter after His Resurrection, and Peter wrote that Jesus went from Paradise, which no one could leave, to the place where spirits from the time of Noah were imprisoned, and made an announcement to them (He did not evangelize them, this is a translation mistake in some versions - look up the underlying Greek verb).
- As Jesus told Mary after His Resurrection, He did not spend His time in the grave with the Father - but only after was to go to the Father.  You can read about this encounter in Zechariah 3:1-8.  I think the "men wondered at" are the 24 Elders, who follow Jesus in His train as per the Psalms.

Jesus was also mobile after His Resurrection.
- He popped in and out of our earthly existence several times, speaking to those who needed it, and providing a witness.
- He only finally ascends in Acts 1:11, and His Return is said to be in the same way.

After Jesus comes, and as the strongman, steals the most valuable thing in the world from Satan - us - with the Rapture, which is like a thief;
- He is also has His Army scale walls and climb in through windows, like a thief
- And He pops in and out unexpectedly, also like a thief - to marshal the Remnant Jews around.

This explains this verse, which happens after the Harvest:
Rev 16:15 ("Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who stays awake and keeps his clothes, so that he will not walk about naked and men will not see his shame.")
Notice that those who fail to obey are not left out of the proceedings like the five foolish virgins, but are taken along, albeit in shame for their nakedness.

And that goes back to this verse:
Isa 42:16 "I will lead the blind by a way they do not know,
In paths they do not know I will guide them.
I will make darkness into light before them
And rugged places into plains.
These are the things I will do,
And I will not leave them undone."

Jesus is mobile after the Day of the Lord, and this is so until the final battle at Armageddon, where once again, He transitions from Heaven to Earth to bring the Earth into the Kingdom of God with Title in hand.

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12 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

 

First of all, I do not have the Lord coming on the clouds before the Trumpets.

5.) Now with this Great Multitude, Jesus delivers the wheat to the barn of Heaven (Mt 13's parable of the wheat and the tares) and with the First Trumpet, He goes out to meet the 144,000 on Mount Zion and they make the charge against Jerusalem, and then fight in the Valley of Decision, which scholars peg to the area around Bethlehem, just to the south.

 

Hi Marcus,

It seems to me that you do have the Lord coming before the trumpets. Not quite understanding you there, bro.

Quote

Son of Man coming on the clouds

  • Harvest Redemption / Gathering Elect from the clouds
  • Great Multitude arrives in Heaven out of the Great Tribulation
  • Scroll opened with breaking of seventh Seal.
  • First Trumpet fire and blood – 1/3rd of earth burned
    • Avenging Angels – supplying Blood and managing the Fire
  • Wrath of God following the Day of the Lord
    • Second Trumpet  - 1/3rd of sea to blood
    • Third Trumpet - 1/3rd of water bitter....[/quote]
    •  

You have too much to address, but I will point out something from 5). The Lord Jesus does not fight with the armies of the anti-Christ, He send a plague which -

`...will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem: their flesh will dissolve  while they stand on their feet....` (Zech. 14: 12)

`...the rest were killed by the sword (word) which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse.` (Rev. 19: 21)  

 

regards, Marilyn.

 

Edited by Marilyn C
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10 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

It seems to me that you do have the Lord coming before the trumpets. Not quite understanding you there, bro.

Well, on one hand this kind of hurts because it is not "I" who "has" the Lord coming before the Trumpets, but the Word.

1.) Look at the broad overview given us in the Seal/Scroll chronology:

  • Rev 6:12-13 - Sun/moon/star sign
  • Rev 6:14 - Scrolling of the sky
  • Rev 7:4-8 - “Mustering” the 144,000
  • Rev 7:9-17 - Great Multitude arrives in Heaven out of the Great Tribulation
  • Rev 8:1 - Scroll opened with breaking of seventh Seal
  • Rev 8:7 - First Trumpet fire and blood 1/3 of earth burned
  • Rev 8:8 - Second Trumpet 1/3 of sea to blood
  • Rev 8:10 - Third Trumpet 1/3 of water bitter
  • Rev 8:12 - Fourth Trumpet 1/3 of light struck
  • Rev 9:1-11 - Fifth Trumpet Abyss opened 5 months torment
  • Rev 9:13-21 - Sixth Trumpet WWIII - 1/3 of man killed
  • Rev 10:1-4/Rev 11:15 - Seventh Trumpet (no desolation mentioned)
  • Rev 11:19 - Earthquake

This is a listing of the sequence of events the Lord gives us in His Word.  
I even put chapter/verse references with it.
This is the order GOD gives us.

Now - if the Great Multitude is the same as the Elect of Mt 24:31, who are taken out of the earth after the Great Tribulation
- then indeed the Day of the Lord (with its signature sun/moon/star sign) comes before the trumpets of God's Wrath falls upon those left behind.


 

2.) Look at the detailed, parallel account of the Harvest in Revelation chapters 13-16:

In outline form from the four chapters of Revelation 13 through 16 here are the “events:”

  • The rise of the fourth terrible beast of a nation out of the “sea”
    • Worship of the beast (rebellion against God)
  • Authority given (by God) to the beast of a man for one-half of the one 'seven'
    • He wages war against the Saints
    • We are to endure patiently (remember Rev 3:10 and John 17:15)
  • Rise of the false prophet with miracles and 'fire from the sky'
  • Erection of the talking image of the anti-Christ: the midpoint abomination
  • Two laws which make the Great Tribulation the worst time ever for the Church in terms of persecution
  • 144,000 assembled on Mount Zion
  • 3 Angels fulfill the Great Commission / Warn the wicked
  • Son of Man coming on the clouds
  • Harvest from the clouds
  • Avenging Angels - Blood and Fire
  • First Bowl - Sores on Man
  • Second Bowl - All sea to blood
  • Third Bowl - All water to blood
  • Fourth Bowl - Seared by heat
  • Fifth Bowl - Satan's kingdom in the dark
  • Sixth Bowl - Way for the King of the East - Battle at Armageddon N/S/E
  • Seventh Bowl - Earth changing earthquake

In chapter 14, we go 1-2 from the Harvest to God's Wrath!

Harvest: 14 Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and sitting on the cloud was one like a son of man, having a golden crown on His head and a sharp sickle in His hand. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying out with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, " Put in your sickle and reap, for the hour to reap has come, because the harvest of the earth is ripe." 16 Then He who sat on the cloud swung His sickle over the earth, and the earth was reaped.
Wrath:  17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, and he also had a sharp sickle. 18 Then another angel, the one who has power over fire, came out from the altar; and he called with a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, saying, " Put in your sharp sickle and gather the clusters from the vine of the earth, because her grapes are ripe." 19 So the angel swung his sickle to the earth and gathered the clusters from the vine of the earth, and threw them into the great wine press of the wrath of God. 20 And the wine press was trodden outside the city, and blood came out from the wine press, up to the horses' bridles, for a distance of two hundred miles.

You know, early on, I argued that the two Angels were part of the Harvest, but I was corrected on a message board (sharpened) and I saw the other guy was right.

Notice too, that the two Angels in verses 17-20 -- do exactly what the First Trumpet of God's Wrath does!

Rev 8:7 The first sounded, and there came hail and fire, mixed with blood,

We get so caught up in the burning a third that we miss that the First Trumpet involves both fire and blood.  Well - here, in one of the few instances I can think of, God reveals how this comes about.  Like with the WWIII that will kill a third of the wicked, Angels are there to help make it happen.  They may be unseen, but there is a definite spiritual influence from God whose Hand shapes events in our world.  This should not sound so strange to us.
 

So "I" do not "have" the Lord coming before the Trumpets.  Scripture sequences His Return before God's Wrath falls.
And Paul stated that right in 1Th 5:9.

Edited by Marcus O'Reillius
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10 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

 5). The Lord Jesus does not fight with the armies of the anti-Christ, He send a plague which -

`...will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem: their flesh will dissolve  while they stand on their feet....` (Zech. 14: 12)

`...the rest were killed by the sword (word) which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse.` (Rev. 19: 21) 

Do you know that a nuclear explosion will do what Zechariah says as well?

HOW Jesus kills with the sword from His Mouth - which is poetic, figurative speech - is not literally said.
It could be very well that He just speaks, and they die.  He is God too in the Trinity.  Remember when He said "I AM" when the Romans came for Him that night and He literally bowled over a company of battle-hardened Roman soldiers?  John 18:6  Considering under the circumstances where He was so stressed that He sweated blood, (Lk 22:44, an actual physical condition that can happen in extremes) - that He let slip just a little of His Power just in mentioning His Name: I AM?  What would happen if He fully let loose?  I'm here to tell you, our God is a mighty God.

Now also, Revelation 19:21 is the final battle of the one 'seven'.
On that final day, the battle is fought in the hill country of Ephraim, by the hill Meggido, or har-meggido, which is where we get Armageddon.

On the Day of the Lord, two battle are fought as foretold in Joel 2.
One is around Jerusalem, and the other is in the valley of decision, which goes back to the Valley of Jehoshophat, which scholars place around Bethlehem, just to the south.

There are different battles, and they are fought in different places, and at different times.

So I do not think that Jesus is not above fighting with the armies of the anti-Christ; He is also the Commander of God's Army, and He does not lead from the rear... 

Edited by Marcus O'Reillius
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The Fourth Beast of Daniel 7

Dan 7:7 “After that, in my vision at night I looked, and there before me was a fourth beast—terrifying and frightening and very powerful. It had large iron teeth; it crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. It was different from all the former beasts, and it had ten horns. 8 “While I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them; and three of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like the eyes of a man and a mouth that spoke boastfully. 9 “As I looked, “thrones were set in place, and the Ancient of Days took his seat. His clothing was as white as snow; the hair of his head was white like wool. His throne was flaming with fire, and its wheels were all ablaze. 10 A river of fire was flowing, coming out from before him. Thousands upon thousands attended him; ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him. The court was seated, and the books were opened. 11 “Then I continued to watch because of the boastful words the horn was speaking. I kept looking until the beast was slain and its body destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire. 12 (The other beasts had been stripped of their authority, but were allowed to live for a period of time.) 13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

Now, I'll sum the events described, which will leave out a lot of description, but this is just to get the big picture.  This chapter is written in three parts: the vision, the inquiry and the answer.  In this fashion, the original vision is gone over three times.  Each time reinforces the sequence of events and adds additional information.  Here is a synopsis of the vision:

  • v.7 Rise of the fourth Beast of a Nation
  • v.8 Rise of the little horn (anti-Christ)
  • v.9 Court seated; books opened (among them the Scroll)
  • v.11 Beast of a Nation destroyed; Beast of a Man thrown into Hell
  • v.12 First three beasts allowed to live a while (30/45 day periods)
    (they are contemporary to the fourth and make it up: Rev 13:2)
  • v.13 Son of Man arriving in Heaven
  • v.14 Establishment of Millennium reign of Christ

     

Next is the inquiry by Daniel:

Dan 7:15 “I, Daniel, was troubled in spirit, and the visions that passed through my mind disturbed me. 16 I approached one of those standing there and asked him the true meaning of all this. “So he told me and gave me the interpretation of these things: 17 ‘The four great beasts are four kingdoms that will rise from the earth. 18 But the saints of the Most High will receive the kingdom and will possess it forever—yes, for ever and ever.’ 19 “Then I wanted to know the true meaning of the fourth beast, which was different from all the others and most terrifying, with its iron teeth and bronze claws—the beast that crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. 20 I also wanted to know about the ten horns on its head and about the other horn that came up, before which three of them fell—the horn that looked more imposing than the others and that had eyes and a mouth that spoke boastfully. 21 As I watched, this horn was waging war against the saints and defeating them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came and pronounced judgment in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came when they possessed the kingdom.

  • v.17 End-time transition from the rule of man
  • v.18 -to the Rule of Christ.
  • v.20 Ten horns (Kings), three usurped by one little horn
  • v.21 Little horn waging war on the Saints
  • v.22a God pronounces Judgment in favor of the Saints
  • v.22b Saints possess the Kingdom

Again, this does not conflict with the vision. It is laid out in a linear order after an introductory summation. 
 

Then the 'one of those standing there' gives this full explanation in answer:

Dan 7:23 “He gave me this explanation: ‘The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom that will appear on earth. It will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth, trampling it down and crushing it. 24 The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom. After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings. 25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his saints and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints will be handed over to him for a time, times and half a time. 26 “‘But the court will sit, and his power will be taken away and completely destroyed forever. 27 Then the sovereignty, power and greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be handed over to the saints, the people of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will worship and obey him.’ 28 “This is the end of the matter. I, Daniel, was deeply troubled by my thoughts, and my face turned pale, but I kept the matter to myself.”

  • v.23 Rise of fourth Beast of a Nation. It will (future tense) devour the whole world.
  • (The King of the North is triumphant over the South and East at Armageddon)
  • v.24 Little horn "hamstrings" three "Kings."
  • (Notice the ten Kings come from this Kingdom, they don't have their own Kingdoms.)
  • v.25 Oppress the Saints for half of the one 'seven.' 
         (Notice that we are also "handed over." This is exactly what Jesus said would happen in the Olivet Discourse and Revelation 13:7.)
  • v.26a Court (of God) will seat
  • v.26b Little horn's power destroyed
  • v.27 Set up of Millennium Kingdom ruled by the Saints


From these three parallel arrays, we can construct a single timeline:

  • Rise of fourth Beast of a Nation with ten Kings (Council of Ministers)
  • Little horn "hamstrings" three "Kings" to rise to power over the Beast of a Nation
  • He wages war and oppress the Saints for half of the one 'seven'
  • Court of God is seated; books opened (Rev 4-8:1)
  • Little horn's power destroyed
  • Beast of a Nation destroyed
  • Beast of a Man thrown into Hell
  • First three beasts allowed to live a while (30/45 day periods from Dan 12)
  • Son of Man returns to Heaven
  • Establishment of Millennium reign of Christ
  • Saints rule the earth

The first thing we can see alike is the rise of the fourth beast of a nation and then the rise of the beast of a man.  Then we can see that the Saints are oppressed, waged war upon.  These match the emerging overall sequence of events for the first half.  The additional information supplied through Daniel has to do with the political maneuvering that the anti-Christ uses to come to power.  In the unabridged book I detail how the word “uproot” is not agricultural in usage, but can also mean to “hamstring.”

The Books could determine who is to be gathered up or alternately represent the Scroll from the Seal/Scroll chronology.  Telling which is not possible, only that it precedes the Wrath of God.  An assumption here will be to link it to the very important opening of the Scroll which only Jesus is able to do, and it brings God’s desolations to the little horn and sees to his destruction.  This is an assumption and could very well be in error; without further information, no firm determination is possible.  Now that we have the combined array of Daniel 7, how does this compare with the list which has already been compiled?

The little horn’s power is destroyed through the Trumpet Judgments.  The beast of a nation is destroyed at Armageddon.  The component three nations are allowed to continue for a while.  This verse means that the beasts of Daniel 7 cannot be identical to the parts of the statue in Daniel 2, whose previous portions are in the ash heap of history; all four end-time beasts are contemporary to each other.  In Revelation 13:2, the first three are shown to make up the body of the fourth terrible beast which is the “head.”  When the head is lost, the body parts are no longer united, but live for a while.

In Daniel 12 we learn there are 1290 days and 1335 days until safety – in the Millennium.  This equates to a 30-day and a 45-day period sandwiched between the one ‘seven’ and the Millennium.  This is largely for the Remnant to come to Mount Zion, and the accompanying encampment on God’s Mountain which marries with the Sukkot from the Jewish Festivals – which are its own study for a pattern for the end-times.  The Millennium isn’t mentioned per se, but the rule of God through the Kingdom already prophesized in Daniel 2, becomes the norm and the Saints reign: quite in opposition to their previous subjugation.

Can we then combine Daniel 7 to the overall sequence of events? Absolutely! There is no discrepancy between the two.

  • The rise of the fourth terrible beast of a nation out of the “sea”
    • with ten Kings (Council of Ministers)
    • Little horn "hamstrings" three "Kings" to rise to power over the Beast of a Nation
    • Worship of the beast (rebellion against God)
  • Covenant with many prevailed by the Roman ruler who will come
  • Authority given (by God) to the beast of a man for one-half of the one 'seven'
    • Temple w/ Gentiles 42 mos.
    • He wages war against the Saints
    • We are to endure patiently (remember Rev 3:10 and John 17:15)
    • Rise of the false prophet with miracles and 'fire from the sky'
  • Armies surround Jerusalem.
  • Midpoint Abomination Erection of the talking image of the anti-Christ
    • Two laws which make the Great Tribulation the worst time ever
    • Two Witnesses 1260 days - call down Wrath
    • Great Tribulation
  • Sun/moon/star event Day of the LORD
    • Scrolling of the sky = sign of the Son of Man
    • Jesus touches down upon the earth
    • Mustering the 144,000 assembled on Mount Zion
    • 3 Angels fulfill the Great Commission / Warn the wicked
    • Son of Man coming on the clouds
    • Harvest Redemption / Gathering Elect from the clouds
    • Great Multitude arrives in Heaven out of the Great Tribulation
    • Books / Scroll opened with breaking of seventh Seal
    • First Trumpet fire and blood – 1/3rd of earth burned
      • Avenging Angels – supplying Blood and managing the Fire
  • Wrath of God following the Day of the Lord
    • Second Trumpet  - 1/3rd of sea to blood
    • Third Trumpet - 1/3rd of water bitter
    • Fourth Trumpet - 1/3rd of light struck
    • Fifth Trumpet Abyss opened 5 months torment
    • Sixth Trumpet WWIII - 1/3rdf of man killed
    • Seventh Trumpet
      • First Bowl - Sores on Man
      • Second Bowl - All sea to blood
      • Third Bowl - All water to blood
      • Fourth Bowl - Seared by heat
      • Fifth Bowl - Satan's kingdom in the dark
      • Sixth Bowl - Way for the King of the East - Battle at Armageddon
        • Two Witnesses die from Demon from Abyss
      • Seventh Bowl –
        • end with desolations poured out on the Roman desolator
        • Two Witnesses arise.
        • Earth changing earthquake
    • Beast of a Man thrown into Hell
  • First three beasts allowed to live a while (30/45 day periods)
  • Christ returns to Heaven
  • Establishment of Millennium reign of Christ
    • Saints rule the earth

 

If you look carefully, you will see that I have not disturbed the individual order of any account.  What happens as other major accounts are added in is that missing details fill the gaps.  At no time does the overall sequence violate any individual prophecy.  What is exciting though is that they all agree with one another.

Edited by Marcus O'Reillius
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Hi Marcus,

Thank you for your reply. Now when you said `you do not have the Lord returning on the clouds before the trumpets,`  you meant that scripture tells us that. Now I see many things differently than you, but amazingly we do agree on some very important details.

It seems we both agree that the Lord will return to heaven after the tribulation & extra days, & rule over all & not from the earth.

Blessings, Marilyn.

Edited by Marilyn C
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