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Sequence-of-Events Analysis


Marcus O'Reillius

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19 hours ago, inchrist said:

7th trumpet     < ------------------------------7 bowls-------------------------->end

Rosh Hashanah  -------------10 days of Awe/tribulation (jews)------------------------ Yom Kippur

You say that Rosh ha-Shannah comes after the one 'seven' is concluded.

However:

  • There is no evidence that the Day of the Lord is connected with the victory at Armageddon.
  • The sun/moon/star event which precedes it (Joel 2:31) is shown happening when the sixth Seal is opened - before any of the Trumpets sound.
  • The Great Multitude, who provides evidence for the delivery of the Dead in Christ and those Elect who remain and are still alive - the result of the gathering on the Day of the Lord - and coming after the Great Tribulation as Jesus said, evidenced by the Elder's answer that they 'come out of' that time - also is shown in Scripture as happening with the sixth Seal - before any of the Trumpets sound. 

The evidence in the Bible is that Rosh ha-Shannah, the Returning Anew, the Day of the Lord, happens before God's Wrath comes upon the wicked.
____________________________________________________________

And if that is not enough, now you have an internal inconsistency within your own points: you now say Revelation 2:10 relates to the Jews, and not to the Church.

This is the nature of confusion: facts don't line up.

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19 hours ago, inchrist said:

Oh but I can claim exclusive rights to be correct,  

You can claim all you want, it doesn't make you correct.  As I said, there is more than one way to interpret this parable, and the reader may rely on more than one in how to apply this parable to the end-times.

God gave us Free Will.  He did not give us you to dictate how we must think.

19 hours ago, inchrist said:

Since scripture now makes it abundantly clear to you,

There's that use of "clear" again!  LOL

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On 8/24/2016 at 2:37 PM, inchrist said:

 I’m really not interested what your opinions have to say.

This is not an indicator for grounds for a discussion.

This is the attitude a tyrant or a dictator brings to any discourse.

So it is of no surprise that one side makes no effort to allow the other side to have any basis for what they present, and instead just talks past the other person nonstop.

Yet, for the reader, I will offer an alternative view to the straitjacket mentality of inchrist's.

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On 8/24/2016 at 2:37 PM, inchrist said:

Refute with scripture what exactly is not CLEAR of oil being a symbolism of the Holy Spirit?  

Again, using "clear" indicates that inchrist has reached a conclusion and allows no other.

However, there are between 187 and 214 references to "oil" in the Bible, depending upon which English version translation you favor in your reading.

Offering 3% of those hardly makes an overwhelming argument that oil must ALWAYS be taken figuratively - and that is inchrist's argument here: everything must be taken figuratively.

 

The problem with commentators who take everything literal figuratively, is they literally get to assign meaning to whatever they're taking figuratively according to their own fancy.

 

This does not mean that we cannot assign figurative meaning, like faith, spirit, or righteousness to the aspect of oil, but to so in the extreme leads to fanciful interpretations.

Fanciful interpretations are fun; it's like a child's game of imagination - the more wild, the more fun.  However, it does not reflect sober discernment.

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On 8/24/2016 at 9:22 AM, Marcus O'Reillius said:

First of all, I already refuted your claim that the timing of the end-times exactly comport to the timing of the Fall Festivals.
This was done with Scripture!  Colosians 2:16-17

Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

So repeating your argument is a fallacy: repetition.  Some people would typify such a repetitive approach as 'stuck on stupid'.  

As to a literal ten days of God's Wrath - that is not supported either. 

  1. God's Wrath is not tribulation, and we are not to endure that - Paul again in 1Th 1:10.
  2. Nor is this termed the Great Tribulation, which is a specific and unique time - Jesus: Mt 24:22.

The Expositor's Bible Commentary on Revelation 2:10 says this:

The "ten days" may be ten actual days. Or it may be a Semitism for an indeterminate but comparatively short period of time (cf. Neh 4:12; Dan 1:12). In the first- century Roman world, prison was usually not punitive but the prelude to trial and execution, hence the words "Be faithful, even to the point of death."

So the message to the second type of Church may only involve them, and many commentators have drawn a conclusion that the Churches also represent a timeline of The Church - and that Smyrna represents the second and third centuries in this progression.

What we are to take from the Church of Smyrna is that if we persevere and remain faithful through times of tribulation, and that has come and gone through the ages; he who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death. - there is a promise to all if this happens to you.

And then inchrist says this:

On 8/24/2016 at 2:37 PM, inchrist said:

You refuted no such thing, God gave the wedding customs, service, and ceremonies to the Jewish people (Romans 3:2; 9:4) to teach us about Christ (Colossians 2:16-17)…..what you claim as refuting my argument is an example of how you have cherry picked scripture to support a distorted view.

This is hardly a scholarly approach.

Sometimes when people complain about something they don't like about another, there are two things are at work:

  1. They are actually complaining about something they see in themselves reflected in another, and,
  2. They are at the same time putting themselves above another by putting the other person down.

Both cases are examples of unchecked ego, and I have learned this applies to me as well.  Whenever we compare ourselves out from others, we also destroy any unity in that group.

When we look at the sequence-of-events presented in the parallel accounts within the book of Revelation, there is no 1:1 correlation to a literal basis for applying the Appointed Times to the end-times in terms of 10 literal days when the first Woe alone takes five months!

This is an ultra-literal approach, which is just as fallacious as taking literal events figuratively; when Paul explicitly warns us against doing so.  Along with taking everything literal figuratively, it is not so much that each is wrong, but that these are examples of using the wrong tool to interpret and force an eschatological view onto Scripture.  Then, the person dictating using a hammer when a polishing cloth is needed, insists that only the hammer be used.  So discernment is the byword in knowing which tool to use, and by examining which interpretation tool we're using we can see how that shapes the interpretation thereof.

There is, however, a very strong correlation between the sequence of the Appointed Times of the Fall Festivals to the sequence-of-events I have found in compiling end-time linear prophetic narratives.

This is quite in line with what Paul is saying in Colossians.  Like the first century Jewish wedding festival, and the agricultural methods of harvesting implicit in Appointed Times, the Festivals themselves lend added meaning, order, pattern, and examples for us in discerning the nature of God's Plan.  

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Now this is a thread about the sequence-of-events.
It is not a thread about parables, or patterns.
However, with a foundation for the sequence of events: how can this parable be viewed?
Literally.  
........And it matters little if inchrist does not allow this; the interpretation rests upon itself.

Let's look at a side-by-side of two sequences:

  • Revelation 13-14,
    • which is part of a greater detailed parallel account of the one 'seven' in Revelation chapters 13-16, and 
  • The Olivet Discourse of Matthew 24.

Revelation 13:14 – 14:16

  • 13:14-15 Erection of the talking image of the anti-Christ: the midpoint abomination

  • 13:15-17 Two laws which make the Great Tribulation the worst time ever for the Church in terms of persecution

  • 14:1-5 144,000 assembled on Mount Zion with Jesus standing upon the earth

  • 14:6-11 3 Angels fulfill the Great Commission / Warn the wicked

  • 14:14 Son of Man coming on the clouds

  • 14:16 Harvest from the earth

 

Matthew 24:15-31

  • 24:15  Midpoint Abomination, which adds: standing in the “Holy Place”

  • v. 21  Great Tribulation, which is shortened by the:

  • v. 29  Sun/moon/star event, which heralds the Day of the Lord

  • v. 30  Sign of the Son of Man

  • v. 30  The Son of Man coming on the clouds

  • v. 31  Gathering Elect from the earth

 

 Now in this side-by-side sequence of events analysis, which skips descriptive verses and gets just to the action laid out within, we can see a strong correlation between the first two points, and the last two.

In the two linear narratives, two additional bits of information are provided in one and not the other.  This omission in one and not the other does not negate either account from corresponding to each other.  
An omission of information is not a commission of an error by God.

What the added information does is fill in the gaps, and there are plenty of "gaps" in prophecy.
Nowhere is everything spelled out for us.

In the timeline of the sequence of events, I put these separate accounts together like this:

  • Midpoint Abomination Erection of the talking image of the anti-Christ

    • Two laws which make the Great Tribulation the worst time ever for the Church in terms of persecution.

    • Great Tribulation.

  • Sun/moon/star event Day of the LORD.

    • Scrolling of the sky = sign of the Son of Man

    • Jesus touches down upon the earth.

    • Mustering the 144,000 on Mount Zion with Jesus standing upon the earth
    • 3 Angels fulfill the Great Commission / Warn the wicked

    • Son of Man coming on the clouds.

    • Harvest Redemption / Gathering Elect from the earth.

So let's put ourselves into the future and we come to the midpoint of the one 'seven' and all of a sudden: we are faced with a terrible dilemma!
We cannot be seen in public lest we take the Daniel Test of worship or die.
We cannot go to work without the 'mark' of the beast.
We cannot pay our bills, or procure food; ultimately - our utilities will be cut off.

We are IN the Great Tribulation and dying is now happening to us left and right.

In this time of Great Distress - our hero, Jesus, tarries.
The time goes on and we are being reduced rapidly.
Family and friends are being slaughtered.
Whole communities are being wiped out.
Very few of us are left...

To these few, who have sheltered themselves, they wait.
They endure patiently.
And when the end is near, desperation is setting in.
Some do not have enough supplies to last.

Remember two things:

  1. The five foolish virgins didn't lack oil - they lacked having enough.
  2. And the 'mark' of the beast is tied to a literal, physical activity: buying and selling.

In this time - when the five wise virgins tell the ones asking that they share to go buy some more oil - they are literally testing them to see if their faith is enough - WILL THEY RISK LOSING THEIR LIFE FOR CHRIST, or are they going to try to save their life so that they can "see" (literally) Him come?

In a literal application during the Great Tribulation - right up and to just before the dawning of the Day of the Lord - it is imperative that:

  1. You "keep the faith"
  2. And NOT take the mark of the beast.

There is both a literal and a figurative side to this interpretation of the parable.

When Jesus comes, those who fail the Daniel Test of faith, who succumb to trying to save themselves by taking the mark, and thinking OSAS, or that 'they have Jesus in their heart'; will be sorely vexed to see that they came so far only to come up vastly short of receiving their inheritance.

God will use the tarrying of the Groom to weed out those who are not truly of the Elect.

Endure Patiently.
Keep the Faith.
Remain Steadfast.

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Shirley, you can't be serious.

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No, I have no desire to "discourse" with someone like you.  You have nothing to offer.

Your only goal is to eliminate any thinking outside of your own, and to that extent, you cannot allow any point or counterpoint to stand such as when you say: "You refuted no such thing," when Scripture was produced directly aimed at, and refuting your lockstep approach to applying the timing of the Festivals in the Hebrew calendar to the end-times.

Such a person cannot be sharpened, and as a round stone can only try to 'roll over' everyone else who they see as an opponent and not a fellow brother in Christ.

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Again -

inchrist has no ability to discuss a subject like the "Sequence-of-Events".

What is on display here is how one "muddies" the waters.  

This is a tactic of those who are unable to argue so as to destroy, so to achieve similar ends, they pull the thread off-topic with innuendo, red herrings, tar babies, addresses to the person or ad hominen attacks ("calm down") and other fallacious tactics so as to just argue and pretty soon the whole point of a thread is lost anyway.

That is what is happening here, and I will not let it stand without exposing it for what it is: a cheap trick.  Like challenging a "soapbox debate".  

Eschatology is too serious for 15 second sound bites in any "soapbox debate".

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On 7/23/2016 at 6:32 AM, Last Daze said:

A kindred spirit . . . .

:thumbsup:

 A Kindred

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 (King James Bible)

Spirit

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. 2 Peter 1:21 (King James Bible)

~

And Even That Oldest (?) Of Our Most Holy Holy Holy Books
Is Probably Written Through A Blessed Arab
And Surely It Is Kissed By God
The Holy Spirit

For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: Job:25-27 (King James Bible)

~

I Believe God, The Holy Spirit Is Not Bound By

You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord. Leviticus 19:18 (New American Standard Bible)

And He said to him, “ ‘YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.’ “This is the great and foremost commandment. “The second is like it, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’ Matthew 22:32-39 (New American Standard Bible)

Our Sequence Of His Holy Books

A Psalm of David. The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at My right hand Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet." Psalms 110:1 (New American Standard Bible)

"David himself said in the Holy Spirit, 'THE LORD SAID TO MY LORD, "SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND, UNTIL I PUT YOUR ENEMIES BENEATH YOUR FEET."' Mark 12:36 (New American Standard Bible)

Nor By Their Appearance

He said also, "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." Then Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God. Exodus 3:6 (New American Standard Bible)

Since that time no prophet has risen in Israel like Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face, Deuteronomy 34:10 (New American Standard Bible)

No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him. John 1:18 (New American Standard Bible)

In Time

"Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel. Isaiah 7:14 (New American Standard Bible)

Now all this took place to fulfill what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet: "BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD AND SHALL BEAR A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL," which translated means, "GOD WITH US." Matthew 1:22-23 (New American Standard Bible)

~

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

 

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27 (King James Bible)

 Love, Your Brother Joe

~

All your words are true; all your righteous laws are eternal. Psalms 119:160 (New International Version)

The Bible contains the mind of God, the state of man, the way of salvation, the doom of sinners, and the happiness of believers. Its doctrines are holy, its precepts are binding, its histories are true, and its decisions are immutable.

Read it to be wise, believe it to be safe, and practice it to be holy. It contains light to direct you, food to support you, and comfort to cheer you.

It is the traveler’s map, the pilgrim’s staff, the pilot’s compass, the soldier’s sword and the Christian’s charter. Here too, Heaven is opened and the gates of Hell disclosed.

Christ is its grand subject, our good its design, and the glory of God its end. It should fill the memory, rule the heart and guide the feet. Read it slowly, frequently and prayerfully.  It is a mine of wealth, a paradise of glory, and a river of pleasure.

It is given you in life, will be opened at the judgment, and be remembered forever. It involves the highest responsibility, rewards the greatest labor, and will condemn all who trifle with its sacred contents.

 

From The Inside Of My Gideon New Testament

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